As of TODAY, where is McDavid on the all time list in your opinion?

[Video Nasty]

For those arguing longevity… he’s already played 3 more games than Orr ever did.

He’s 5th right now. He has skills and does things we have never seen any other hockey player do.

If he wins one Cup in today’s era then he’s another guy that we can debate about when we rank the top 5 rather than the top 4.

That’s why Orr and Lemieux are vulnerable and it’s feasible that McDavid can be convincingly argued against anyone other than Gretzky. Howe is vulnerable as well because he had both peak and longevity, but quite frankly, as many Harts and Art Rosses as he did win, he should have won more being as great as he was in a smaller league.

I can see why they may continue to always be ranked over McDavid, but if he has a full career, his combined peak and longevity is going to sway a ton of people. If he fills out his trophy case and plays as many games combined as Orr and Lemieux did by the time they retired already being at or among the top of their field—657 for Orr and 745 when Mario retired in 1997–it’s ludicrous that he can’t be considered higher.

 

[Zalos]

He is easily in the Top 10. He's around where Crosby is and will pass him if he continues dominating for the rest of his career (a Cup or two will help).

I think in the end he'll be Top 3 with Lemieux and Gretzky, passing Orr and others in the Top 10. He is incredibly talented and he's dominating in the present era, which has stronger competition than most players in the Top 10 had to face except Sid.

In comparison, I think MacKinnon and Kucherov will finish in the Top 50 once their careers are over. Maybe higher if they produce for a long time.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Probably like 21 or so

 

[Fatass]

I think he's already top 20, maybe even top 10.

He'll end up top top 5 easily by the time his career is over.

I don't even think it's out of the question that he ends up the GOAT. I wouldn't count out that possibility.

For me McDavid is in that group with Dionne. So 15-25. To move up (imo) he needs to be key in at least one Cup win. So close last year but didn’t show up in the biggest game of his career, to this point.
If he can lead a club to a Cup he moves into the top 10 for me. But as of today he’s 15-25, right in with Dionne.

 

[benfranklin]

And the what if is half what if nothing happened to McDavid, and the other half is what if Oilers had a proper management team when they had McDavid.

So true. He easily should have a couple Cups by now, but hypothetically, if he ends his career with zero Cups and top 10 in scoring, it will be a never ending argument of "but he never won it all".

 

[benfranklin]

For those arguing longevity… he’s already played 3 more games than Orr ever did.

He’s 5th right now. He has skills and does things we have never seen any other hockey player do.

If he wins one Cup in today’s era then he’s another guy that we can debate about when we rank the top 5 rather than the top 4.

Im one of the few that argue Orr should be lower for that very reason. The skill was there, the high end seasons were there, and the accolades were there, but not the longevity. So were crowning him top 3 of all time because we never saw the regression assuming he would have stayed at that level for another 10 seasons, which is highly unlikely.

McDavid, if his career ended today, is Orr without the Cups.

Hell, i we are going off that logic, there is a real argument for Lemieux being the best ever. ASSUMING he played the same amount of games as Gretz, he would be close to his point totals and played in a tougher era to score.

 

[hamzarocks]

For me McDavid is in that group with Dionne. So 15-25. To move up (imo) he needs to be key in at least one Cup win. So close last year but didn’t show up in the biggest game of his career, to this point.
If he can lead a club to a Cup he moves into the top 10 for me. But as of today he’s 15-25, right in with Dionne.

Mcdavid isnt any lower than 5th already. He has the best playoff run in NHL history last year.

Dionne won 1 ross, 0 harts, 2 lindsays and had 2 1st teams + 2 2nd teams through an 18 year career.

McDavid has 5 rosses, 3 harts, 4 lindsays + 1 rocket. Mcdavid has 5 1st teams + 2 2nd teams going through his 10th NHL season

Mackinnon and Kucherov are better than dionne level player and are 25th-30th all time. Mcdavid has been the best player in the world since 2017-2018

 

[benfranklin]

Mcdavid isnt any lower than 5th already. He has the best playoff run in NHL history last year.

Dionne won 1 ross, 0 harts, 2 lindsays and had 2 1st teams + 2 2nd teams through an 18 year career.

McDavid has 5 rosses, 3 harts, 4 lindsays + 1 rocket. Mcdavid has 5 1st teams + 2 2nd teams going through his 10th NHL season

Mackinnon and Kucherov are better than dionne level player and are 25th-30th all time. Mcdavid has been the best player in the world since 2017-2018

Why is that considered the "Best" playoff run? Because if were going off points, it was not. Also he lost in that playoff run...

Gretz
82-83 - 16GP 38P 2.38 ppg
83-84 - 19GP 35P 1.84 ppg
84-85 - 18GP 47P 2.61 ppg
86-87 - 21GP 34P 1.62 ppg
87-88 - 19GP 43P 2.26 ppg
92-93 - 24GP 40P 1.66 ppg

McDavid
23-24 - 25GP 42P 1.68 ppg

Overall are we talking potential? Skill? Points?

If McDavid's career ended today, he would be 173rd all time in scoring. In what universe is that a Top 10 player of all time?

If we are talking skill/potential, then sure, give him #1 right now, but he simply doesnt have the stats yet, as of TODAY (which is what the OP said).

 

[Fatass]

Mcdavid isnt any lower than 5th already. He has the best playoff run in NHL history last year.

Dionne won 1 ross, 0 harts, 2 lindsays and had 2 1st teams + 2 2nd teams through an 18 year career.

McDavid has 5 rosses, 3 harts, 4 lindsays + 1 rocket. Mcdavid has 5 1st teams + 2 2nd teams going through his 10th NHL season

Mackinnon and Kucherov are better than dionne level player and are 25th-30th all time. Mcdavid has been the best player in the world since 2017-2018

It’s totally opinion. Each fan will use different measures. IMO to move into the greatest of the already great players that guy needs to be key in winning the Cup.
I see a group of great players. The key for me is are they great in the biggest moments and that means Cups? Cups separate those greats into tiers. The greatest were (are) key in Cup wins. The others don’t rank as high.
Right now, for me, McDavid is at the top of the list of great players who didn’t lead their club to a Cup. So that’s with Dionne.
I don’t know McDavid. None of us do. However, I can make an educated guess about what he feels about the value to a players legacy of greatness if they win the Cup compared to if they don’t. I’m thinking he feels his legacy will not be in with the greatest of the greats with the Cup. I think we saw that evidenced by his frustration in the locker room after the game three loss to Florida.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

5ish

 

[Frank Drebin]

Why is that considered the "Best" playoff run? Because if were going off points, it was not. Also he lost in that playoff run...

Gretz
82-83 - 16GP 38P 2.38 ppg
83-84 - 19GP 35P 1.84 ppg
84-85 - 18GP 47P 2.61 ppg
86-87 - 21GP 34P 1.62 ppg
87-88 - 19GP 43P 2.26 ppg
92-93 - 24GP 40P 1.66 ppg

McDavid
23-24 - 25GP 42P 1.68 ppg

Overall are we talking potential? Skill? Points?

If McDavid's career ended today, he would be 173rd all time in scoring. In what universe is that a Top 10 player of all time?

If we are talking skill/potential, then sure, give him #1 right now, but he simply doesnt have the stats yet, as of TODAY (which is what the OP said).

I have him somewhere around 4-5 best all time

 

[daver]

Mcdavid isnt any lower than 5th already. He has the best playoff run in NHL history last year.

If history started after 1992 perhaps.

Sakic's and Malkin's runs are in the same tier as McDavid's.

 

[benfranklin]

I have him somewhere around 4-5 best all time

Lemieux
Gretz
Orr
Howe
Jagr
Richard
Beliveau
Crosby
Ovechkin
Lidstrom
Messier
Lafleur
Hull
Hull
Bossy
Bourque
Esposito
Coffey
Yzerman
Sakic
Francis
Dionne

I didnt even include a handful of goalies that I could've. Dionne is the only player without a Cup. Id love to see any argument for why, as of TODAY, McDavid is ahead of any of these all time greats.

I think he will get there eventually, but he isnt yet.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Lemieux
Gretz
Orr
Howe
Jagr
Richard
Beliveau
Crosby
Ovechkin
Lidstrom
Messier
Lafleur
Hull
Hull
Bossy
Bourque
Esposito
Coffey
Yzerman
Sakic
Francis
Dionne

I didnt even include a handful of goalies that I could've. Dionne is the only player without a Cup. Id love to see any argument for why, as of TODAY, McDavid is ahead of any of these all time greats.

I think he will get there eventually, but he isnt yet.

Just behind the big 4

 

[GOilers88]

It was a shame. The storybook element of completing a 3-0 comeback to win a first Cup is about as unbeatable of a hockey accomplishment as one can have.

For now, we wait. It’s coming though.

It didn't even really matter to me at that point that it was the Oilers. I was 100% sold that we were going to see a team come back from 0-3 in the modern era and win it all.

Real, legitimate, once in a lifetime stuff. Should have known better

 

[benfranklin]

Just behind the big 4

I think he will be and has the skill to do it, just dont see the argument for him being there TODAY.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Top 25, he may max out at top 20 when it's all said and done.

 

[GOilers88]

Im one of the few that argue Orr should be lower for that very reason. The skill was there, the high end seasons were there, and the accolades were there, but not the longevity. So were crowning him top 3 of all time because we never saw the regression assuming he would have stayed at that level for another 10 seasons, which is highly unlikely.

McDavid, if his career ended today, is Orr without the Cups.

Hell, i we are going off that logic, there is a real argument for Lemieux being the best ever. ASSUMING he played the same amount of games as Gretz, he would be close to his point totals and played in a tougher era to score.

One could argue the longevity kind of was there, as was so good he fundamentally changed the way defense was played, paving the way for the ubertalents we have now. Orr redefined one half of the entire game. It makes me think 3rd could be too low.

 

[eXile3]

Right behind Sid in the 5 area.

He’s definitely taken advantage of an offensive era of hockey but anyone can see he’s been dominant in the same manner.

He’ll never be equal to or pass Mario. Anyone saying as much never watched him play or are delusional.

 

[Ciao]

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
McDavid
Crosby
Howe
Richard

Off the top of my head.

 

[daver]

He does not have an argument for being up there with the Big 4.

Howe was as good offensively with his placement in the Big 4 being as much about his all around game and longevity.

Orr and Mario were on other levels that McDavid has yet to reach.

Don't think he is there yet in career value to bump any of the consensus #5 forward candidates (Hull, Beliveau, and Crosby).

But he is pacing for #5, we'll see what happens from here. A lack of a Cup would be huge in comparison to Crosby; a player who could have had just as impressive regular season resume if not for bad luck and bad timing with injuries.

 

[benfranklin]

One could argue the longevity kind of was there, as was so good he fundamentally changed the way defense was played, paving the way for the ubertalents we have now. Orr redefined one half of the entire game. It makes me think 3rd could be too low.

100000% he did. He played 657 games "only" for a 1.39 ppg career, 915 point total.

Apples to oranges obviously, but Marleau played the most with 1779. If Orr did that and kept his pace, he'd have 2473 points, good for second all time, as a defenseman. That is how good he was, but its a huge woulda coulda didnt.

I understand why he is a consensus top 3 of all time, but also see the argument for leaving him out because of longevity and lack of points overall compared to others, who played longer. That would be Connor IF his career ended today. We'd be saying, well IF he played 10 more years, he'd have x more points and x Cups assuming the same pace and no regression, which is highly unlikely, albeit we are witnessing it more lately with Sid/Ovi keeping pace with the young guns.

 

[NVious]

Why is that considered the "Best" playoff run? Because if were going off points, it was not. Also he lost in that playoff run...

Gretz
82-83 - 16GP 38P 2.38 ppg
83-84 - 19GP 35P 1.84 ppg
84-85 - 18GP 47P 2.61 ppg
86-87 - 21GP 34P 1.62 ppg
87-88 - 19GP 43P 2.26 ppg
92-93 - 24GP 40P 1.66 ppg

McDavid
23-24 - 25GP 42P 1.68 ppg

Overall are we talking potential? Skill? Points?

If McDavid's career ended today, he would be 173rd all time in scoring. In what universe is that a Top 10 player of all time?

If we are talking skill/potential, then sure, give him #1 right now, but he simply doesnt have the stats yet, as of TODAY (which is what the OP said).

He's no Brian Propp or Steve Larmer that's for sure

 

[Fataldogg]

Already comfortably in the top-10. His resume is off the charts.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

100th just ahead of Geno, keep it up kid, one day you'll be with the JT Millers, Jonathan Toews and Lane Hutsons of the world

I don't get it. Is...JT Miller overrated in your world?