OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Steelers need a new ball thrower for the handball game thingy

[Pengwins]

Spillane > Bush

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Spillane > Bush

Bob definitely has come a long way from his hit from Henry they say he is actually getting better in pass defense which is a good thing. I am not worried about bush since I think we will see more big nickel 3 safety and less base 3/4

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Why do you think he sucks?

I mean, I guess every MLB in the league has an NFL dad and a godfather that is Derrick Brooks. The guy has a leg up. He's getting beaten out by Robert f***ing Spillane right now. Stick up for the dude. Say people are projecting. He sucks, and he didn't before. There has to be something happening. My hope is that he figures his shit out or they cut him because he's detrimental to the team with how he played last year.

Uh hes tiny and he shredded his knee?

Pretty obvious.

His dad (other than making a short baby) has likely very little to do with it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yup.

He sucks. Yes. That can be seen. We can even see what about his game is making him suck. But the idea that we can identify the root cause of it is projection/speculation for sure.

Isn't like 95% of a message board "speculation"? lol

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Uh hes tiny and he shredded his knee?

Pretty obvious.

His dad (other than making a short baby) has likely very little to do with it.

Bush isn't tiny compared to other ILB's

And if you don't think cronyism and nepotism isn't alive in pro sports, you must be living under a rock.
Hell it's the reason JJ got signed here: Sid Crosby lobbied for him

 

[pistolpete11]

I've wanted Tomlin gone for years now, but my only criticism with Bush will be the sunk cost fallacy going on if they stick with him through another year like last year.

Did Tomlin's connections to Bush factor in to the Steelers drafting him? Maybe? I don't know, wouldn't surprise me, but at the same time he was a good college player at a position the Steelers desperately needed at the time. He had a solid rookie year, so I think the pick was justified. Then he had the knee injury. I think we sometimes take for granted how difficult it is to come back from something like that and play in the f***ing NFL. So I'm willing to give him a pass on last year, but now it's put up or shut up. If he doesn't bounce back now, then he should be gone. I agree there's no way for us to really know whether it is because of his work ethic or just the limitations of the human body, but what he is this year is what he's going to be. If he's not up to the standard, then it's on the coaching staff to make changes, because....as we all know....the standard is the standard.

 

[xlm34]

Bush isn't tiny compared to other ILB's

And if you don't think cronyism and nepotism isn't alive in pro sports, you must be living under a rock.
Hell it's the reason JJ got signed here: Sid Crosby lobbied for him

Shit you can just point to Derek Watt as an example. But in the case of Bush, I think the whole nepotism argument is just a monumental stretch. He didn't get drafted because his dad played in the NFL or his godfather is buddies with Tomlin. They drafted him because he was a crazy talented player at a position that was an absolute black hole on their defense after Shazier went down. They traded up for him because there was no chance of him being available when it came to making their selection. And it looked like a good move prior to his injury.

If nepotism was really coming into play as much as some think, why didn't they pick up his fifth year option? Why did he lose playing time last year to Spillane? Why is he in a camp battle with Spillane right now? He's not getting this special treatment.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've wanted Tomlin gone for years now, but my only criticism with Bush will be the sunk cost fallacy going on if they stick with him through another year like last year.

Did Tomlin's connections to Bush factor in to the Steelers drafting him? Maybe? I don't know, wouldn't surprise me, but at the same time he was a good college player at a position the Steelers desperately needed at the time. He had a solid rookie year, so I think the pick was justified. Then he had the knee injury. I think we sometimes take for granted how difficult it is to come back from something like that and play in the f***ing NFL. So I'm willing to give him a pass on last year, but now it's put up or shut up. If he doesn't bounce back now, then he should be gone. I agree there's no way for us to really know whether it is because of his work ethic or just the limitations of the human body, but what he is this year is what he's going to be. If he's not up to the standard, then it's on the coaching staff to make changes, because....as we all know....the standard is the standard.

He was widely panned as the second best ILB in his class, and Steelers were desperate to replace Shazier.

So I don’t really believe he was chased after because of his connections to Tomlin, but more out of a big time need.

He’s been a pretty huge liability in pass coverage most of his career, and all camp reports suggest that is still a major issue, unfortunately.

Being buddies with Tomlin I doubt keeps him as a starter any more so than being a top ten pick they paid up for.

Teams/coaches despise admitting their biggest mistakes and Tomlin is definitely a know it all personality.

If he’s still a liability out there, hopefully Spillane gets in, but he’s pretty ass in coverage as well.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I think the nepotism stuff is overblown. Nothing they've done with the kid so far is out of the ordinary for an NFL org with a first round pick in a position of need. Maybe in the middle of the season we'll be watching his performances and think it's the only possible explanation, but right now, any nepotism is just reinforcing what they've had done already.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Bush isn't tiny compared to other ILB's

And if you don't think cronyism and nepotism isn't alive in pro sports, you must be living under a rock.
Hell it's the reason JJ got signed here: Sid Crosby lobbied for him

What does any of that have to do with how hes playing or “if he cares enough” etc.

Hes a midget that shredded his knee (limiting his one advantage). And people wonder why hes not good.

They would rather believe that he doesnt try hard enough or his godfather is derek brooks as the reason why he sucks. When its apparent that he cant get off blocks because he is tiny and his athleticism isnt the same after the injury.

 

[Pens1566]

Yeah, I think the nepotism stuff is overblown. Nothing they've done with the kid so far is out of the ordinary for an NFL org with a first round pick in a position of need. Maybe in the middle of the season we'll be watching his performances and think it's the only possible explanation, but right now, any nepotism is just reinforcing what they've had done already.

I might believe that about the nepotism if we

a) didn't have a Watt brother making millions and taking as many non special teams snaps as members of this forum
b) didn't draft Heyward's little brother

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Bush isn't tiny compared to other ILB's

And if you don't think cronyism and nepotism isn't alive in pro sports, you must be living under a rock.
Hell it's the reason JJ got signed here: Sid Crosby lobbied for him

Cronyism keeping Bush in the lineup isn’t the same as his being entitled explaining why he sucks.

 

[Peat]

I might believe that about the nepotism if we

a) didn't have a Watt brother making millions and taking as many non special teams snaps as members of this forum
b) didn't draft Heyward's little brother

But we're talking about Devin Bush. Make a case about how they're deploying Devin Bush, not how they're drafting and treating these guys.

Besides, given how much they gave Olszewski to return punts them making a huge deal out of special teams is consistent, and so far the Heyward pick is justifying itself.

 

[Pens1566]

But we're talking about Devin Bush. Make a case about how they're deploying Devin Bush, not how they're drafting and treating these guys.

Besides, given how much they gave Olszewski to return punts them making a huge deal out of special teams is consistent, and so far the Heyward pick is justifying itself.

Bush isn't a vacuum though. Whether he's still getting snaps because of his draft position or his lineage is debatable. But even his draft position might be an issue considering how they moved up to pick him, probably as a reach out of need. The only counter is that they didn't pick up his option, but I'm not sure anyone would given how he's trending.

There's definitely a streak of nepotism through the organization. If their names were Derek Jones and Connor Smith, they wouldn't have even caught a sniff of interest.

 

[Coastal Kev]

He was widely panned as the second best ILB in his class, and Steelers were desperate to replace Shazier.

So I don’t really believe he was chased after because of his connections to Tomlin, but more out of a big time need.

He’s been a pretty huge liability in pass coverage most of his career, and all camp reports suggest that is still a major issue, unfortunately.

Being buddies with Tomlin I doubt keeps him as a starter any more so than being a top ten pick they paid up for.

Teams/coaches despise admitting their biggest mistakes and Tomlin is definitely a know it all personality.

If he’s still a liability out there, hopefully Spillane gets in, but he’s pretty ass in coverage as well.

Funny how people mock message board opinions while at the same time bowing down to anyone with a title/credential from the media/league.

You're correct that Bush was "panned" by all of the experts to be 1A vs 1B with White. But if you go back and read these very boards, a few were of us were dead on with Bush. In fact, I stated he was on par with Pratt from NC State said that would be a better pick for mid round value.

NFL coaches are all glorified gym teachers who know someone. That's it. Media are worse.

You can mock my post and laugh at thought of someone like me working for the Steelers FO. But for a dose of reality, if I'm in the room on draft day in 2019 and someone suggests trading 2 additional high picks to grab Bush, it would have been my hill to die on. IN fact, as I'm being escorted out of the room, I probably expose my buttocks and possibly relieve myself.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I've been a critic of the Harris pick since day 1 and came across this stat:
************
Here are the OL RANKS and RB RANKS for 2021:

28th in adj line yards, 17th in most times stuffed for a loss or no gain, 30th in 2nd level yards, 26th in open field yards

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... nsive-line
************

I think he's a good enough player, but not someone I blow a Rd 1 pick on. We were talking about Bush being Rd 1 pick and reaching...I think Harris falls into this category.

Let's hope this was an Oline function....

 

[ChaosAgent]

I've been a critic of the Harris pick since day 1 and came across this stat:
************
Here are the OL RANKS and RB RANKS for 2021:

28th in adj line yards, 17th in most times stuffed for a loss or no gain, 30th in 2nd level yards, 26th in open field yards

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats ... nsive-line
************

I think he's a good enough player, but not someone I blow a Rd 1 pick on. We were talking about Bush being Rd 1 pick and reaching...I think Harris falls into this category.

Let's hope this was an Oline function....

To be honest with you the memeing of Harris has been insufferable. He wasn't that good and missed a lot of holes last year. This whole presumption that he's a top back has been highly premature

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

To be honest with you the memeing of Harris has been insufferable. He wasn't that good and missed a lot of holes last year. This whole presumption that he's a top back has been highly premature

Yea when I spend a R1 pick on a back I want:
-Explosiveness, the threat to take it to the house after the 1st level
-Vision. As you said, Harris missed a TON of holes. While I grant that on most plays there weren't any available for him, the times the Oline did open something for him he missed it

Harris is a plowhorse to me. Kinda reminds me of Bettis without the vision

 

[bigdaddyk88]

 

[UnrealMachine]

If only he could have done that in the open field or on the 2nd level *maybe* I'd consider adjusting my respect. But alas, he didn't.

 

[ChaosAgent]

2022 NFL Running Back Rankings and Tiers | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

PFF's Ben Linsey reveals the top-20 running backs in the NFL heading into the 2022 season, which includes the Indianapolis Colts' Jonathan Taylor taking the top spot.

www.pff.com

Same article where they ranked him 11th. I'd have him about there with upside to go higher. Probably still not worth taking with a 1st but I've made peace with the RB 1st round decision.

I mean, it could end up better than this year's 1st.

 

[JTG]

The thing that makes me not hate the Harris pick is the guy who we could have taken instead (Javonte Williams) went very shortly after Harris. It just was what it was. Najee is a good dude who is good for the city, and I think if they can get a line, he is the type of back that can make a long day for an opposing defense.

 

[Peat]

The thing that makes me not hate the Harris pick is the guy who we could have taken instead (Javonte Williams) went very shortly after Harris. It just was what it was. Najee is a good dude who is good for the city, and I think if they can get a line, he is the type of back that can make a long day for an opposing defense.

As a guy to watch, a guy who helps the team, I agree.

In a super bowl or bust mode, he's just going to be expired by the time the rest of the time is ready most like, and spending the 1st on a more long term asset would have made more sense to me.

But is what it is. I enjoy watching him, I think he's a real talent and difference maker.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

As a guy to watch, a guy who helps the team, I agree.

In a super bowl or bust mode, he's just going to be expired by the time the rest of the time is ready most like, and spending the 1st on a more long term asset would have made more sense to me.

But is what it is. I enjoy watching him, I think he's a real talent and difference maker.

Putting aside the Tomlin playoff failure issues for a moment - if KP is the real deal, this teams window will open up over the next 2-3 years.

Feature backs generally give their drafting team around 5-6 years of high end production before they fall off a cliff in their early 30s.

You can probably knock a year off that with the way Tomlin abuses his feature back - so I’d say he has 4 more years left of being a 1000 yard 75 catch type guy.

That only puts him around 28 yrs old, and it’s always possible he could squeeze another couple productive years out before he hits the dreaded 3-0.

So even given all that, Harris will be right in his prime productive years as their window opens up.

If KP is a bust or just another dude, they will need Harris just to be competitive.

So either way, it was a good pick IMHO.

 

[SomeDude]

This camp has made me appreciate that the NHL is not as big and popular as the NFL. Having a QB battle in camp for the first time in almost 2 decades has made me appreciate that comparative anonymity of being a Pens fan and only a casual fan of other sports. The Steelers media and fan base are living and dying with every single pass attempt in Latrobe. I've had to block some media people who kept showing up in my feed who were annoying the **** out of me without me even following any of their accounts.