OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[Buddy Bizarre]

He played last season with the 28th best Qb we saw AB struggled without Ben here.
I gave you examples this season Allen and Diggs Brown and Hurts. Heck in the Super Bowl we saw a te push his hc things get heated when you want to win and your being held back because the guy at Qb is below average

You're going to compare a player who is the best at his position and has rings (Kelce) and a player who is top 5 (Diggs) with DJ?

DJ has ZERO clout to be a whiny bitch. Those dudes do. End of debate

 

[T1K]

You're going to compare a player who is the best at his position and has rings (Kelce) and a player who is top 5 (Diggs) with DJ?

DJ has ZERO clout to be a whiny bitch. Those dudes do. End of debate

Diggs is the whiniest bitch in the league. He isn’t justified at all. Literally every year he has some cryptic tweet about wanting to leave or whatever. His production fell off a cliff in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

QB was told not to f*** up by Your Hero & His OC hire

He was told not to f it up because he was incapable of carrying this team to winning. He was still in making wrong reads throwing dropped interceptions and getting bailed out on lateral fumbles.

You're going to compare a player who is the best at his position and has rings (Kelce) and a player who is top 5 (Diggs) with DJ?

DJ has ZERO clout to be a whiny bitch. Those dudes do. End of debate

DJ is Diggs pre Allen. Diggs in Minnesota numbers are very similar to what DJ did with a washed Ben.

 

[pistolpete11]

This past season, despite the clown show offense, DJ was:

53rd in yards (despite missing time)
T-35th in TDs (despite missing time)
40th in yards/game
29th in yards/reception
45th in yards/target

Ballparking an average, I'd say it results in around 40th overall. Depends on what your standard of a 'good' WR is, but that's high end WR2. With an average competent offense, he's probably closer to 30th, so low end WR1.

In terms of contract, he's 14th APY, but so many of the guys in front of him in terms of production are still on rookie contracts (Jefferson, Lamb, St. Brown, Nacua, etc.). So I think he's pretty fairly paid. Whether paying for that level of a WR is a good idea is a fair question. I think you could make a strong argument to just trade him for a 1st/2nd rounder and draft his replacement.

As I said yesterday, though, I don't think he fits in Smith's offense, so I would lean even further into the 'trade him' camp.

 

[Josey Wales]

He was told not to f it up because he was incapable of carrying this team to winning. He was still in making wrong reads throwing dropped interceptions and getting bailed out on lateral fumbles.


DJ is Diggs pre Allen. Diggs in Minnesota numbers are very similar to what DJ did with a washed Ben.

Get Help

 

[xlm34]

This past season, despite the clown show offense, DJ was:

53rd in yards (despite missing time)
T-35th in TDs (despite missing time)
40th in yards/game
29th in yards/reception
45th in yards/target

Ballparking an average, I'd say it results in around 40th overall. Depends on what your standard of a 'good' WR is, but that's high end WR2. With an average competent offense, he's probably closer to 30th, so low end WR1.

In terms of contract, he's 14th APY, but so many of the guys in front of him in terms of production are still on rookie contracts (Jefferson, Lamb, St. Brown, Nacua, etc.). So I think he's pretty fairly paid. Whether paying for that level of a WR is a good idea is a fair question. I think you could make a strong argument to just trade him for a 1st/2nd rounder and draft his replacement.

As I said yesterday, though, I don't think he fits in Smith's offense, so I would lean even further into the 'trade him' camp.

Yeah I mean he’s been in either a Fichtner or Canada offense his entire career with some combination of Duck Hodges, Rudolph, Pickett, Trubisky, and a declining Ben throwing him the ball. He’s a legitimately good receiver that would likely put up much betters numbers in a real NFL offense with an actually good QB throwing him the ball.

But like you said, the Arthur Smith hire makes me much less adamant that he should be kept.

 

[Peat]

Let’s see some stats to back up your claims that KP is more accurate than Fields. KP’s “superior” accuracy hasn’t led to an increase in passing production, so I’m calling bullshit.

Fields has a career completion percentage of 60.3 with a season high of 61.4.

Pickett is 62.6, high of 63. His low is 62. About two per cent more accurate.

Plus there's this chart showing how inaccurate Fields was from a clean pocket



And while he did throw more highly accurate balls in general, that also came with a lot of checkdowns, so we can't really excuse his inaccuracy as being solely about being more aggressive than Pickett (but being in an offence that seemed to regard throwing for more than 8 yards at a time does help explain why Pickett's edge in accuracy didn't result in more production)



Pickett hasn't been accurate. Fields has been really inaccurate.

 

[Empoleon8771]

DJ is both not as good as what he's paid and he's getting a bit old for WR standards. Purely based on him, I think it's an absolute no brainer to trade him.

However, it gets a bit dicey when looking at the rest of the team. Just saying "trade DJ for a 2nd and then draft a new Pickens with that 2nd" is easier said than done. The Steelers are marvelous at drafting WRs, but that's a pretty big risk to make IMO. It's one thing to let Juju walk because you have DJ and Pickens, it's another thing to trade DJ when your WR3 is probably Calvin Austin.

 

[Peat]

DJ is both not as good as what he's paid and he's getting a bit old for WR standards. Purely based on him, I think it's an absolute no brainer to trade him.

However, it gets a bit dicey when looking at the rest of the team. Just saying "trade DJ for a 2nd and then draft a new Pickens with that 2nd" is easier said than done. The Steelers are marvelous at drafting WRs, but that's a pretty big risk to make IMO. It's one thing to let Juju walk because you have DJ and Pickens, it's another thing to trade DJ when your WR3 is probably Calvin Austin.

You get 10m of cap back. Find the best WR you can for that 10m and then find the best WR you can for that 2nd. I think the likelihood is that this works out roughly as well as keeping DJ for the next year (and better long term) and while there's a possibility for it to backfire, there's a possibility of a big boom from it too.

edit: Also, in terms of solely comparing how next season's offence would work compared to last's, you're looking to get Freiermuth more involved and that'd lighten some load too. You could probably lean on Pickens more too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You get 10m of cap back. Find the best WR you can for that 10m and then find the best WR you can for that 2nd. I think the likelihood is that this works out roughly as well as keeping DJ for the next year (and better long term) and while there's a possibility for it to backfire, there's a possibility of a big boom from it too.

edit: Also, in terms of solely comparing how next season's offence would work compared to last's, you're looking to get Freiermuth more involved and that'd lighten some load too. You could probably lean on Pickens more too.

I think it largely depends on who you'd sign with that money. If you could get someone like Jakobi Meyers or Tyler Boyd (using them because they made around that money last year), I think it's definitely worthwhile. But if you just get a guy like Juju, it's a pretty big downgrade.

 

[JTG]

If JuJu was cool with working the slot now, I'd bring him in with Boyd. The team would just be gigantic and amazing at run blocking haha.

 

[T1K]

Fields has a career completion percentage of 60.3 with a season high of 61.4.

Pickett is 62.6, high of 63. His low is 62. About two per cent more accurate.

Plus there's this chart showing how inaccurate Fields was from a clean pocket



And while he did throw more highly accurate balls in general, that also came with a lot of checkdowns, so we can't really excuse his inaccuracy as being solely about being more aggressive than Pickett (but being in an offence that seemed to regard throwing for more than 8 yards at a time does help explain why Pickett's edge in accuracy didn't result in more production)



Pickett hasn't been accurate. Fields has been really inaccurate.

Is Pickett’s average accuracy worth 1800 additional yards over 2 years?

 

[JTG]

Is Pickett’s average accuracy worth 1800 additional yards over 2 years?

But what if Pickett gets better?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Diggs is the whiniest bitch in the league. He isn’t justified at all. Literally every year he has some cryptic tweet about wanting to leave or whatever. His production fell off a cliff in the 2nd half of the season.

Cool. Diggs also has done more in his career that DJ can think of.
Put it another way: would DJ replicate what Diggs has done if positions were switched? Flat out no...Diggs was considered top 5 at his position at one time. DJ could never say he was top 25.

 

[T1K]

But what if Pickett gets better?

The same can be said for Fields, who is actually younger than Pickett.

Cool. Diggs also has done more in his career that DJ can think of.
Put it another way: would DJ replicate what Diggs has done if positions were switched? Flat out no...Diggs was considered top 5 at his position at one time. DJ could never say he was top 25.

My point is the whining DJ has done is a molehill compared to what Diggs does.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on their production. If DJ was in Buffalo in Diggs role, he’d be putting up similar stats. They’re the same exact type of player.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He played last season with the 28th best Qb we saw AB struggled without Ben here.
I gave you examples this season Allen and Diggs Brown and Hurts. Heck in the Super Bowl we saw a te push his hc things get heated when you want to win and your being held back because the guy at Qb is below average

Pickens has been in the same offense with the same QBs the last two years and posted six 100 yard games.

So don’t roll that nonsense my way.

Allen and Diggs never got into a physical confrontation, it was verbal.

Tell me another star WR that physically went after his QB and also quit on his team as well.

There’s a reason Johnson and Fitz got into a huge verbal altercation.

A team leader had enough of Johnson’s BS.

Once again, he’s an avg Wr that’s a cancer to this org.

Move him for whatever pick you can, draft a guy who will make league minimum and likely exceed DJ avg production by year two.

DJ is both not as good as what he's paid and he's getting a bit old for WR standards. Purely based on him, I think it's an absolute no brainer to trade him.

However, it gets a bit dicey when looking at the rest of the team. Just saying "trade DJ for a 2nd and then draft a new Pickens with that 2nd" is easier said than done. The Steelers are marvelous at drafting WRs, but that's a pretty big risk to make IMO. It's one thing to let Juju walk because you have DJ and Pickens, it's another thing to trade DJ when your WR3 is probably Calvin Austin.

Steelers haven’t won a playoff game with DJ around, not that I’m placing all the blame at his feet, but moving on from him doesn’t haven’t as much risk as you are assuming.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Fields has a career completion percentage of 60.3 with a season high of 61.4.

Pickett is 62.6, high of 63. His low is 62. About two per cent more accurate.

Plus there's this chart showing how inaccurate Fields was from a clean pocket



And while he did throw more highly accurate balls in general, that also came with a lot of checkdowns, so we can't really excuse his inaccuracy as being solely about being more aggressive than Pickett (but being in an offence that seemed to regard throwing for more than 8 yards at a time does help explain why Pickett's edge in accuracy didn't result in more production)



Pickett hasn't been accurate. Fields has been really inaccurate.

Thanks for grabbing that. So my eyes MATCHED what the stats were saying.
Weird....

My point is the whining DJ has done is a molehill compared to what Diggs does.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on their production. If DJ was in Buffalo in Diggs role, he’d be putting up similar stats. They’re the same exact type of player.

I don't remember Diggs ever quitting mid-play on a fumble or running backwards after he's achieved a first down.
If you find those clips, please feel to post though. I'd recommend not wasting too much of your day bc they don't exist.

Godspeed to you

 

[T1K]

Thanks for grabbing that. So my eyes MATCHED what the stats were saying.
Weird....



I don't remember Diggs ever quitting mid-play on a fumble or running backwards after he's achieved a first down.
If you find those clips, please feel to post though. I'd recommend not wasting too much of your day bc they don't exist.

Godspeed to you

That extra % in completion percentage sure did make a difference on the scoreboard, huh?

Diggs literally pouted in Minnesota until he forced a trade out of there. Ok man

 

[JTG]

The same can be said for Fields, who is actually younger than Pickett.

For sure...but we have Pickett. We can use assets to surround him with talent and hope that he progresses and then we won't need Fields. Trading for Fields is quite literally pissing into the wind. If he were an obvious upgrade in all areas, I'd be all for it.

If we could trade Kenny and a 5th or something to Chicago for Fields, I'd do it. But we need our picks and Kenny will either progress this year or we will have a great pick next year.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

That extra % in completion percentage sure did make a difference on the scoreboard, huh?

Diggs literally pouted in Minnesota until he forced a trade out of there. Ok man

1) we weren't talking about whether those passes were converted into points. I stated KP was more accurate and the stats bore that out. But please keep moving the goalposts on Fields. It's kinda funny at this point

2) DJ pouted a couple seasons ago with his holdout thread and he's doing it again. He also is an unclutch MFer. So while this season Diggs took a bit of a step back, he was known for coming up big
and actually catching the f***in ball. I mean the dude put up a 300 yard receiving performance in the playoffs. DJ couldn't even sniff that in his dreams

I'm honestly beside myself wondering how I got sucked into such a dumb conversation comparing Diggs to DJ. They aren't even in the same stratosphere

Stefon Diggs Career Stats - NFL Postseason - ESPN

Complete career NFL Postseason stats for Stefon Diggs on ESPN. Includes scoring, rushing, defensive and receiving stats.

www.espn.com

 

[DanielPlainview]

Justin Fields is not the worst starting QB in the league… I mean the NFL had guys like Bailey Zappe, Tommy DeVito and Zach Wilson starting last season. This is just ridiculous him and Pickett are somewhere in the 20’s. Neither is the worst and they are a lot closer then you think

Wrong. Fields is the worst QB listed here by a fair margin.

It’s clear you people haven’t looked at more than a few cherry picked highlights of Fields. He is barely backup quality.

For sure...but we have Pickett. We can use assets to surround him with talent and hope that he progresses and then we won't need Fields. Trading for Fields is quite literally pissing into the wind. If he were an obvious upgrade in all areas, I'd be all for it.

If we could trade Kenny and a 5th or something to Chicago for Fields, I'd do it. But we need our picks and Kenny will either progress this year or we will have a great pick next year.

Harvin for Fields would be apt if we still had him

 

[Peat]

I think it largely depends on who you'd sign with that money. If you could get someone like Jakobi Meyers or Tyler Boyd (using them because they made around that money last year), I think it's definitely worthwhile. But if you just get a guy like Juju, it's a pretty big downgrade.

There's always a chance they screw things up with the replacement when moving on from a guy. But as you point out, getting a guy who can do it on 10m is not difficult. Ditto getting an instant contributor at WR in the 2nd/3rd round.

Is Pickett’s average accuracy worth 1800 additional yards over 2 years?

Maybe? I mean, it all depends what the team is doing instead of all those scrambles and designed runs Fields does that Pickett doesn't.

If the answer is that Pickett would throw it when Fields runs then that works out, as even Pickett's stupendously conservative Y/A throwing beats Fields' stupendously high Y/A running. I'd rather have my QB throw than run as a general rule of thumb.

But obviously it's not quite that simple. When are Fields' designed runs setting up better plays down the line? When is Fields scrambling to grab a down that otherwise wouldn't? But then Pickett is good at keeping his eyes downfield and throwing on the move. I've definitely seen him pick up bigger gains passing than he could have got scrambling. Statistically he's very accurate outside the pocket (in fact, more so than inside the pocket last season, a trait he shares with one other QB and you know it's really funny who that QB is here's a hint we're talking about him right now...).

But in any case, I'd like to think a competent OC can design a scheme where Pickett generally being a more accurate thrower is worth the same as Fields' legs.

The same can be said for Fields, who is actually younger than Pickett.

But has an extra year of NFL coaching and starting experience, which seems a far bigger difference to me.

 

[xlm34]

For sure...but we have Pickett. We can use assets to surround him with talent and hope that he progresses and then we won't need Fields. Trading for Fields is quite literally pissing into the wind. If he were an obvious upgrade in all areas, I'd be all for it.

If we could trade Kenny and a 5th or something to Chicago for Fields, I'd do it. But we need our picks and Kenny will either progress this year or we will have a great pick next year.

Yeah if there were no strings attached, I’d prefer Fields over Pickett. If you have to fix a QB with pocket, processing, and accuracy issues you might as well go for the guy with the better physical talent.

But can’t say I’d be all that excited about trading a 2nd for a guy that probably won’t work out when you could just get the same result for free.

 

[DanielPlainview]

You people are SMOKING CRACK. FIELDS CANNOT PLAY QUARTERBACK. If you put Fields in the Canada offense his stats would be catastrophic. Pull your heads out of your asses. This isn't Madden.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Diggs best season in Minnesota 1130 yards 6 tds
In 2021 DJ 1160 8 tds. Diggs wasn’t Digs before Allen