OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Congrats to KC, but Kelce was the real winner winning Swift

[Peat]

The best way I can put my objection is that's it's running on third and long to set up a punt, rather than actually trying to throw past the sticks.

To me, that is more unacceptable than seeing how much of it was Pickett and how much of it was Canada. Hell, I'd have rather traded a 6th for Mac Jones and installed him.

It doesn't help that there's stats and reports on Wilson that makes me think he's really not the sure-fire improvement people expect. Watching his TD throws didn't change my mind there.

 

[WickedWrister]

I’m fine with the signing, I just dread a scenario where Wilson plays mediocre, doesn’t come back, and they decide to go with KP in 25.

I really want the issue with KP resolved this season so they can move on or not.

I’ve already witnessed the QB carousel in the 90s and early 2000s, and it’s a hopeless situation.

I just want them to find someone who can be their guy long term, not keep dumpster diving like they have been doing with MT and now Wilson.

I think it is resolved. Kenny in all likelihood will be the backup this year and his time as a starting QB in the NFL is over.

About your last point, what alternatives was there? This move doesn't preclude the Steelers from doing anything.

The best way I can put my objection is that's it's running on third and long to set up a punt, rather than actually trying to throw past the sticks.

To me, that is more unacceptable than seeing how much of it was Pickett and how much of it was Canada. Hell, I'd have rather traded a 6th for Mac Jones and installed him.

It doesn't help that there's stats and reports on Wilson that makes me think he's really not the sure-fire improvement people expect. Watching his TD throws didn't change my mind there.

And running it back with Kenny is like kneeling the ball on 3rd down. Utterly futile.

You're vastly underrating the potential value to be gained if Russ is even league average on a $1.2m contract. That's the needle mover right there.

 

[Peat]

And running it back with Kenny is like kneeling the ball on 3rd down. Utterly futile.

You're vastly underrating the potential value to be gained if Russ is even league average on a $1.2m contract. That's the needle mover right there.

What's the value? Do the Steelers become SB contenders? No. Do the Steelers set up their future to be SB contenders? No.

If people want to say it's better than Pickett, fine. That doesn't mean it's actually good.

If it can't be Pickett then get Fields, get Jones, scout the hell out of Nix and Penix to see if they're the guy... Wilson? Hell naw.

And sure, one year of Wilson isn't that awful in a vacuum. But then the idea of Trubisky as a stop-gap wasn't awful in a vacuum. Calling time early on Rudolph and Pickett isn't awful in a vacuum. Add it all together and this stinks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just throwing this out here:

35 year old Wilson: 26-8 TD-INT ratio, 66.4% completion%, 98.0 passer rating
35 year old Ben: 28-14 TD-INT ratio, 64.2% completion%, 93.4 passer rating

Granted Ben was much more of a gun slinger who threw a lot more passes, but I really don't think Wilson is this washed up guy. I'd put him at a roughly league average starting QB, one they're paying a vet minimum to.

What's the value? Do the Steelers become SB contenders? No. Do the Steelers set up their future to be SB contenders? No.

If people want to say it's better than Pickett, fine. That doesn't mean it's actually good.

If it can't be Pickett then get Fields, get Jones, scout the hell out of Nix and Penix to see if they're the guy... Wilson? Hell naw.

And sure, one year of Wilson isn't that awful in a vacuum. But then the idea of Trubisky as a stop-gap wasn't awful in a vacuum. Calling time early on Rudolph and Pickett isn't awful in a vacuum. Add it all together and this stinks.

If that's the case, you were probably not happy about how the team was handling Ben from about 2016 onwards.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think it is resolved. Kenny in all likelihood will be the backup this year and his time as a starting QB in the NFL is over.

About your last point, what alternatives was there? This move doesn't preclude the Steelers from doing anything.


And running it back with Kenny is like kneeling the ball on 3rd down. Utterly futile.

You're vastly underrating the potential value to be gained if Russ is even league average on a $1.2m contract. That's the needle mover right there.

It’s clear by starting MR for the playoffs and now getting Wilson that Tomlin has no faith in KP.

So let’s not play that game and get on with it IMHO.

It’s a deep class of QBs, so start planning for ‘25.

 

[JTG]

I do think Russ could do well here for sure, and maybe allow Kenny to hit a reset button of sorts. Any way you slice it, I think this is a phenomenal thing that happened AND it saves us crazy money. I'd like to see them draft a developmental guy this year.

This team could be really f***ing good if Russ can turn back the hands of time a bit.

I assume this is sarcastic but that's actually one of the major strengths Tomlin has. He's trash in terms of his hiring, his game management, and many other key parts of the job, but he is as good as anyone at managing personalities.

Not sure he manages them though. He has historically just kind of let them do whatever they wanted.

 

[xlm34]

I think it is resolved. Kenny in all likelihood will be the backup this year and his time as a starting QB in the NFL is over.

About your last point, what alternatives was there? This move doesn't preclude the Steelers from doing anything.


And running it back with Kenny is like kneeling the ball on 3rd down. Utterly futile.

You're vastly underrating the potential value to be gained if Russ is even league average on a $1.2m contract. That's the needle mover right there.

I think people are vastly overestimating the chances that he gives them league average QB play to be honest.

Wilson as a stop gap for a year while you give a young player a chance to develop is fine with me. But that young player is not on the roster so what’s the point? This team isn’t winning a Super Bowl in 2024 and Wilson won’t be on the team in 2025.

 

[MrBrightside]

Just throwing this out here:

35 year old Wilson: 26-8 TD-INT ratio, 66.4% completion%, 98.0 passer rating
35 year old Ben: 28-14 TD-INT ratio, 64.2% completion%, 93.4 passer rating

Granted Ben was much more of a gun slinger who threw a lot more passes, but I really don't think Wilson is this washed up guy. I'd put him at a roughly league average starting QB, one they're paying a vet minimum to.



If that's the case, you were probably not happy about how the team was handling Ben from about 2016 onwards.

Peat has been a Pickett stan from way back. I don't love this move, and there is actually a cost - an opportunity cost - even if the contract itself and commitment is minimal, but to argue you'd rather have Mac Jones than Wilson says all he needs to say about his non-serious assessment.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think people are vastly overestimating the chances that he gives them league average QB play to be honest.

Wilson as a stop gap for a year while you give a young player a chance to develop is fine with me. But that young player is not on the roster so what’s the point? This team isn’t winning a Super Bowl in 2024 and Wilson won’t be on the team in 2025.

The Steelers have gone 14-10 in Pickett's starts in his career while he has thrown 13 TDs in 24 games.

League average QB play has the Steelers with a borderline top-10 offense with a clear top-10 defense.

 

[T1K]

What's the value? Do the Steelers become SB contenders? No. Do the Steelers set up their future to be SB contenders? No.

If people want to say it's better than Pickett, fine. That doesn't mean it's actually good.

If it can't be Pickett then get Fields, get Jones, scout the hell out of Nix and Penix to see if they're the guy... Wilson? Hell naw.

And sure, one year of Wilson isn't that awful in a vacuum. But then the idea of Trubisky as a stop-gap wasn't awful in a vacuum. Calling time early on Rudolph and Pickett isn't awful in a vacuum. Add it all together and this stinks.

For someone who is very analytical, I don’t get how you can be unhappy with this. He’s literally the cheapest option available, and if he stinks we’re positioned to get a new QB next year.

Your posts are coming off in a way that you’d be unhappy with anything except Pickett as QB1.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Cousins to the Falcons on a 4 year deal.

 

[wheelz87]

I don’t get why Pickett can’t sit for a season under a franchise / Super Bowl QB like Wilson. to where both sides can get along.

If Wilson does good I doubt we will re sign him and Pickett starts the next season anyway while learning for a year.

If he doesn’t then it was only worth 1.2 million and we keep trying Pickett until we find someone else or don’t need to.


Win win signing. As we let the offense build around a franchise QB.

(I don’t actually disagree. I’m just tired and don’t want to hear the extremists who say Kenny doesn’t know how to throw a forward pass)

 

[xlm34]

The Steelers have gone 14-10 in Pickett's starts in his career while he has thrown 13 TDs in 24 games.

League average QB play has the Steelers with a borderline top-10 offense with a clear top-10 defense.

Ok that doesn’t really have anything to do with me doubting that they’ll get average QB play from Wilson though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ok that doesn’t really have anything to do with me doubting that they’ll get average QB play from Wilson though.

What is that based on? He had a 98.0 passer rating last year with a 26-8 TD-INT ratio in 15 games. That's clearly above average.

Coincidentally, based on ESPN's points above average metric, Wilson was spot on average last year:

2024 NFL Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN

Visit ESPN to view NFL Total QBR for the current and previous seasons

www.espn.com

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Cousins to the Falcons on a 4 year deal.

Chicago is so gonna get like a 4th or 5th for Fields.

 

[WickedWrister]

What's the value? Do the Steelers become SB contenders? No. Do the Steelers set up their future to be SB contenders? No.

If people want to say it's better than Pickett, fine. That doesn't mean it's actually good.

If it can't be Pickett then get Fields, get Jones, scout the hell out of Nix and Penix to see if they're the guy... Wilson? Hell naw.

And sure, one year of Wilson isn't that awful in a vacuum. But then the idea of Trubisky as a stop-gap wasn't awful in a vacuum. Calling time early on Rudolph and Pickett isn't awful in a vacuum. Add it all together and this stinks.

There is no QB move available to the Steelers that would've made us SB contenders.

Committing to the names you're suggesting (Pickett, Fields, Mac Jones, Bo Nix, Penix) over Russell Wilson just because they're younger probably kicks the can down the road even further and away from our goal of finding the next franchise QB.

Hell, we could still get Justin Fields for like a random day 3 pick, decline his 5th year option, and run a true 3 way QB competition in camp while having less than $10m committed to the position. Not betting on that happening though.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah, it's insane to me that anyone would complain about this signing. Unless you still somehow believed in Kenny Pickett being the guy.

For $1.2m the bar is literally on the floor.

Said it before, but it really is refreshing that Khan seems wildly more proactive in addressing this teams flaws. Kenny's performance the last 2 years was simply unacceptable.

Jiggy laid out the downside in his post. There is absolutely an opportunity cost here: meaning knowing what they have/don't have in KP

But the opportunity cost in GOING with KP is a lost season. Bc if KP stinks it up, then there's another year of Watt wasted

So they decided that Never Had A Losing Season is more important than wondering if KP will ever figure it out.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Jiggy laid out the downside in his post. There is absolutely an opportunity cost here: meaning knowing what they have/don't have in KP

But the opportunity cost in GOING with KP is a lost season. Bc if KP stinks it up, then there's another year of Watt wasted

So they decided that Never Had A Losing Season is more important than wondering if KP will ever figure it out.

Unless they already know what KP is of course.

Chicago is so gonna get like a 4th or 5th for Fields.

Not sure there’s a home for him.

 

[WickedWrister]

Jiggy laid out the downside in his post. There is absolutely an opportunity cost here: meaning knowing what they have/don't have in KP

But the opportunity cost in GOING with KP is a lost season. Bc if KP stinks it up, then there's another year of Watt wasted

So they decided that Never Had A Losing Season is more important than wondering if KP will ever figure it out.

All of these scenarios get a lot easier if you just accept that Kenny stinks and it's time to move on.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

There is no QB move available to the Steelers that would've made us SB contenders.

Committing to the names you're suggesting (Pickett, Fields, Mac Jones, Bo Nix, Penix) over Russell Wilson just because they're younger probably kicks the can down the road even further and away from our goal of finding the next franchise QB.

Hell, we could still get Justin Fields for like a random day 3 pick, decline his 5th year option, and run a true 3 way QB competition in camp while having less than $10m committed to the position. Not betting on that happening though.

I take issue with the bolded. Kirk Cousins (gone to Atl now) might have been the only person to take this team to contender status. But Cousins is also old by QB standards so he'd be a bridge guy like Wilson. I'm not saying back up the Brinks truck for Cousins, but I think he would give this team a puncher's chance in every game.

But again what's the opportunity cost with signing Kirk? This team has a ton of holes to fill in FA.

So as someone else said, all the QB options stunk. Signing Wilson was the least stinky one

All of these scenarios get a lot easier if you just accept that Kenny stinks and it's time to move on.

Oh trust me, about 3/4 through last season I was calling what KP was going to be: a top tier NFL backup.

There is that sliver of hope (let's call it 5% or less) that I have that KP could develop into a starter if given proper coaching/scheme. But that ceiling is Alex Smith. And you have to have a really good team surrounding Alex Smith to make a SB run.

 

[WickedWrister]

I take issue with the bolded. Kirk Cousins (gone to Atl now) might have been the only person to take this team to contender status. But Cousins is also old by QB standards so he'd be a bridge guy like Wilson. I'm not saying back up the Brinks truck for Cousins, but I think he would give this team a puncher's chance in every game.

But again what's the opportunity cost with signing Kirk? This team has a ton of holes to fill in FA.

So as someone else said, all the QB options stunk. Signing Wilson was the least stinky one

I agree that Kirk was clearly the best available, followed by Baker. But he just went for $45m per. Could we have even fit that?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, if Wilson isn't good like some people here are suggesting, shouldn't Pickett be able to beat him out? Especially at the salary and committment the Steelers gave to him here. If anything, I would expect the team to be biased towards Pickett and try to give him every chance possible to take the spot.

 

[OnMyOwn]

Cousins also has literally 0 track record in the playoffs. Wilson has been there multiple times.

People are underestimating what he’ll bring. Especially if it’s even close to last season. At f***ing 1.2 million dollars.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy laid out the downside in his post. There is absolutely an opportunity cost here: meaning knowing what they have/don't have in KP

But the opportunity cost in GOING with KP is a lost season. Bc if KP stinks it up, then there's another year of Watt wasted

So they decided that Never Had A Losing Season is more important than wondering if KP will ever figure it out.

This is my long held fear with Tomlin.

He’s unwilling to risk his streak and have a down year trying to develop a young QB and live with his mistakes.

Wilson coming in just reeks of his desperation to finally win a playoff game, but let’s not pretend he has some long term plan to make this team a contender.

 

[Peat]

If that's the case, you were probably not happy about how the team was handling Ben from about 2016 onwards.

I wasn't even a Steelers fan in 2016 I only really started getting drawn into paying attention in... 2018? 19? Only started getting invested in 21/22.

But yeah, not happy about what I know. And they've blown through my optimism that they might have the right idea very quickly.

For someone who is very analytical, I don’t get how you can be unhappy with this. He’s literally the cheapest option available, and if he stinks we’re positioned to get a new QB next year.

Your posts are coming off in a way that you’d be unhappy with anything except Pickett as QB1.

In terms solely of winning as many games as possible next season, I get it. But I think any team that doesn't have a real shot at a SB should be taking risks to find answers over winning as many games as possible.

I don't think there's anything the Steelers could have done that would have made me happy (other than fire Tomlin). Their options stink because they are having to repair a lot of mistakes. But this is my least favourite, because I think it shows an organisation that doesn't understand what it'll take for their next Super Bowl.

What is that based on? He had a 98.0 passer rating last year with a 26-8 TD-INT ratio in 15 games. That's clearly above average.

Coincidentally, based on ESPN's points above average metric, Wilson was spot on average last year:

2024 NFL Season Leaders Total QBR | ESPN

Visit ESPN to view NFL Total QBR for the current and previous seasons

www.espn.com

Wilson was outside the top 20 for adjusted EPA. Only just, but below the line.

But the thing is beyond that, he's got to learn a bunch, forge new chemistry, deal with ageing another year... I don't think they're the sort of offence that's going to give a big boost to a guy so it feels like the odds are Wilson is worse than he was last year. The only big thing going in his favour is he clearly wasn't a Payton system fit and he's more of one for Smith - is that enough? Not like Payton didn't scheme a lot of things open for him.

There is no QB move available to the Steelers that would've made us SB contenders.

Committing to the names you're suggesting (Pickett, Fields, Mac Jones, Bo Nix, Penix) over Russell Wilson just because they're younger probably kicks the can down the road even further and away from our goal of finding the next franchise QB.

Hell, we could still get Justin Fields for like a random day 3 pick, decline his 5th year option, and run a true 3 way QB competition in camp while having less than $10m committed to the position. Not betting on that happening though.

Pickett/Fields/Jones are all candidates that can be just as one and done as Wilson. I don't think they kick the can further down the road and they are at least attempts to find a guy, albeit hail mary attempts.

And Nix and Penix are straight up legit attempts to find the next guy if you believe in them. Should you? I dunno, but if they don't believe in Pickett, they have to do due diligence and they haven't.