OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[Power Surge]

If the Pens never fired DB and he was still coaching today, he’d have a HOF career as well and we wouldn’t have won a damn thing since 09, either. Longevity and stacked teams help make up for the lack of execution.

The Steelers absolutely should have gotten a SB run out of the killer B’s. Hell, just Ben and Brown together should have.

And how quick Dan Bylsma found himself out of the league. Couldn't cut it as a HC elsewhere. Couldn't cut it as an NHL assistant.

And is now coaching in the AHL where he probably belongs.

 

[Peat]

Empoleon8771"I don't even like Tomlin"

Also Empoleon8771 "But Tomlin will be laughing at you as you scream MEDIOCRE COACH!!!!! as he's getting into the HOF, because I promise you he'll be getting in" Schizophrenia perhaps

No, that's the difference between a personal valuation and knowing how the world at large will value someone.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Empoleon8771"I don't even like Tomlin"

Also Empoleon8771 "But Tomlin will be laughing at you as you scream MEDIOCRE COACH!!!!! as he's getting into the HOF, because I promise you he'll be getting in" Schizophrenia perhaps

He will get in because of the SB and his longevity, which is obviously attached to being lucky enough to have the Rooney clan as his boss.

That again isn’t the point of any of this, several posters keep trying to take my original point off track with their silliness and inability to have a grip on current realities.

Just because a coach won a SB, that doesn’t mean he develops super coaching powers and can never become mediocre.

Noll won 4 SBs and Tomlin can never touch his resume, yet Noll became a mediocre coach that was gently nudged into retirement.

Tomlin is fond of saying “you are what your record says you are” and his last five years say flat out, without a shred of doubt, he’s become a mediocre coach.

 

[Power Surge]

I mean, if he went to say Detroit and drafted a team that would turn that organization around, and enjoy success there, that would impress the hell out of me and I'll admit to being wrong then.

That would never happen anyway. Since day 1 here he's stated multiple time "hes not and x and o guy. He's a fundamentalist." How is that going to turn the Lions or anyone else around?

Yes he is going to the hall of fame. Thanks to the Steelers organization. Thanks to the Rooney's. Thanks to Lebeau and Arians. Thanks to Ben. Thanks to the culture Cowher established/maintained from Noll. It was already set up. He didn't have to lift one finger when he got here. His resume is a product of the organizations accomplishments, it wasn't something grand that he did to earn it.

Over the years he failed maintaining "the standard." Because he's a fundamentalist, and don't do x's and o's. Cool quote.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I mean, if he went to say Detroit and drafted a team that would turn that organization around, and enjoy success there, that would impress the hell out of me and I'll admit to being wrong then.

That would never happen anyway. Since day 1 here he's stated multiple time "hes not and x and o guy. He's a fundamentalist." How is that going to turn the Lions or anyone else around?

Yes he is going to the hall of fame. Thanks to the Steelers organization. Thanks to the Rooney's. Thanks to Lebeau and Arians. Thanks to Ben. Thanks to the culture Cowher established/maintained from Noll. It was already set up. He didn't have to lift one finger when he got here. His resume is a product of the organizations accomplishments, it wasn't something grand that he did to earn it.

Over the years he failed maintaining "the standard." Because he's a fundamentalist, and don't do x's and o's. Cool quote.

I won’t take away his SB and accomplishments. Much like ppl try to gloss over what Roth did during his fist SB win, I have no doubt Tomlin did plenty to help them win.

He hasn’t evolved and become a better coach since then, but his defenders don’t want to face that.

Working for the Rooneys has made him arrogant and way too comfortable with being mediocre over the years.

There is no fear of accountability, no fear of losing his job, and thus he’s remained stagnant.

Rooney has to make him uncomfortable to force him to grow as a coach, but sadly it’s crazy talk to suggest AR2 have actual expectations from his coach.

 

[Pens1566]

Tomlin has also been a perennial underachiever when it comes to comparing the talent he's had vs the results he's achieved. Like others have said, with another franchise he wouldn't even have his one great accomplishment ... Longevity.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Lesser franchises would love to see 8-8 with their back up Qb and 3rd string guy playing 14 games. Lesser franchises would give their left nut to start 2-6 losing the defensive mvp starting a young offense breaking in a rookie Qb and finish the season 9-8 potentially.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If the Pens never fired DB and he was still coaching today, he’d have a HOF career as well and we wouldn’t have won a damn thing since 09, either. Longevity and stacked teams help make up for the lack of execution.

The Steelers absolutely should have gotten a SB run out of the killer B’s. Hell, just Ben and Brown together should have.

The killer bs were only healthy for 3 playoff games together there entire tenor together and thry got to the afc championship game against New England

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The killer bs were only healthy for 3 playoff games together there entire tenor together and thry got to the afc championship game against New England

Do you really want to get into the reasons why Bell wasn't available for the playoffs, Mr. Bet Welcher?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Lesser franchises would love to see 8-8 with their back up Qb and 3rd string guy playing 14 games. Lesser franchises would give their left nut to start 2-6 losing the defensive mvp starting a young offense breaking in a rookie Qb and finish the season 9-8 potentially.

So basically fans should accept mediocrity and a modern franchise record for playoff futility?

We are now that fanbase you speak of.

The fanbase just hoping to see a playoff win, somehow, someway.

That’s now what the Mike Tomlin era has become - wasting great talent and descending into consistent mediocrity.

Yet you praise that like it’s an accomplishment and fans should be happy with it?

Chuck Noll won a playoff game with Bubby Brister.

Cowher won a playoff game with an insurance salesman.

Neither coach went six years without a playoff win, even when they hit tough times.

 

[wheelz87]

So basically fans should accept mediocrity and a modern franchise record for playoff futility?

We are now that fanbase you speak of.

The fanbase just hoping to see a playoff win, somehow, someway.

That’s now what the Mike Tomlin era has become - wasting great talent and descending into consistent mediocrity.

Yet you praise that like it’s an accomplishment and fans should be happy with it?

Chuck Noll won a playoff game with Bubby Brister.

Cowher won a playoff game with an insurance salesman.

Neither coach went six years without a playoff win, even when they hit tough times.

yep. this isn't the Pittsburgh Pirates. We're the goddamn Pittsburgh Steelers. 6 rings.
But we should accept things like we're Detroit? nah.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

You stated that YOU were going to make it. Check your post history, my dude

OT: - The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

He said he didn’t see it, but there is a thing called video replay so let’s see if he is asked about it Tuesday. is that like telling my wife that i didn't hear her calling me? just asking.

forums.hfboards.com

<cue Jeopardy theme music>

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

yep. this isn't the Pittsburgh Pirates. We're the goddamn Pittsburgh Steelers. 6 rings.
But we should accept things like we're Detroit? nah.

You saw the same thing with the Pens during the DB era. Fans get into a despondent state of mind and don’t think the team can do any better - “who else ya gonna get that’s any better!”

We literally had someone trying to argue yesterday a coach can’t become mediocre because he won a SB 14 years ago.

14 - years - ago.

3 playoff wins in the last 12 years. 3.

Noll is in the HOF, has a resume Tomlin will never sniff, and he was a mediocre coach his last six seasons.

It’s the Tomlin Purgatory effect. Makes people lose all logic and sputter out nonsense.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

John Rooney, son of Steelers founder Art Rooney, dies

John Rooney had been a part owner of the Steelers.

www.post-gazette.com

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Literally zero people will give a shit about this when Tomlin's career is over and being evaluated.

What they'll see with Tomlin is a resume that is essentially the exact same as his peers like Harbaugh, Cowher and Payton.

I would throw Andy Reid in there too. His record was similar to those 3 before Mahomes. Also Carroll.

Point is that many coaches have great 2-3 year stretches. Very few succeed longer than 5 years. Guys like Harbaugh and Tomlin are more successful than 95% of coaches in the history of the NFL.

Of course every coach has an expiration date, and Tomlin may be past his due date here. But some in here act like he picks his nose all week.
All losses are his fault but all wins have nothing to do with him.

You saw the same thing with the Pens during the DB era. Fans get into a despondent state of mind and don’t think the team can do any better - “who else ya gonna get that’s any better!”

We literally had someone trying to argue yesterday a coach can’t become mediocre because he won a SB 14 years ago.

14 - years - ago.

3 playoff wins in the last 12 years. 3.

Noll is in the HOF, has a resume Tomlin will never sniff, and he was a mediocre coach his last six seasons.

It’s the Tomlin Purgatory effect. Makes people lose all logic and sputter out nonsense.

Sullivan is Tomlin, is he not? Started hot with playoffs success in his first few seasons. Then just regular season success without any playoff success since the 2nd championship appearance.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I would throw Andy Reid in there too. His record was similar to those 3 before Mahomes. Also Carroll.

Point is that many coaches have great 2-3 year stretches. Very few succeed longer than 5 years. Guys like Harbaugh and Tomlin are more successful than 95% of coaches in the history of the NFL.

Of course every coach has an expiration date, and Tomlin may be past his due date here. But some in here act like he picks his nose all week.
All losses are his fault but all wins have nothing to do with him.


Sullivan is Tomlin, is he not? Started hot with playoffs success in his first few seasons. Then just regular season success without any playoff success since the 2nd championship appearance.

Not really.

Sullivan won two cups and his GM went to Krazytown and his core got old, ppl just don’t want to face that.

DB and Tomlin live(d) off the rep they got from one championship, both became failures when the playoffs hit, so ppl rambled on about their regular season success nonsense.

Tomlin wasted a HOF QBs career, DB almost wasted away two generational talents.

One org was finally smart enough to recognize what was happening, while the other didn’t and now it’s just a bunch of what ifs.

 

[Power Surge]

Sullivan is Tomlin, is he not?

No.

 

[Flying Dego]

You saw the same thing with the Pens during the DB era. Fans get into a despondent state of mind and don’t think the team can do any better - “who else ya gonna get that’s any better!”

We literally had someone trying to argue yesterday a coach can’t become mediocre because he won a SB 14 years ago.

14 - years - ago.

3 playoff wins in the last 12 years. 3.

Noll is in the HOF, has a resume Tomlin will never sniff, and he was a mediocre coach his last six seasons.

It’s the Tomlin Purgatory effect. Makes people lose all logic and sputter out nonsense.

I've never understood any fan willing to shield a coach from scrutiny? They're paid good money to perform and the Steelers lay high expectations (or used to). The fear of 'what if the next coach is worse' is a losing attitude.

Like you stated 3 playoff wins in 12 years with the QB and talent we've had?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've never understood any fan willing to shield a coach from scrutiny? They're paid good money to perform and the Steelers lay high expectations (or used to). The fear of 'what if the next coach is worse' is a losing attitude.

Like you stated 3 playoff wins in 12 years with the QB and talent we've had?

Here's the thing - I live in reality. A reality where Tomlin for some insane reason is afforded a lifetime job.

However, I don't bitch about his woeful playoff record and decade of mediocrity because I think he will ever be fired.

I bitch about it because he needs to have a lot of his power taken away. He's way too comfortable and in turn surrounds himself with cronies so he can run the entire show. He never feels the heat and thus can also do insanely stupid shit like retain Canada yet again.

Smart people surround themselves with the best man/woman for the job and delegate power, without allowing their ego to get in the way.

Tomlin has become the Emperor Without Clothes.

 

[MrBrightside]

While I'm probably the most agnostic person on Tomlin around as I think he has real strengths and real weaknesses, I also think all this discussion over what coaches win and don't win is grossly overrated. Reid didn't win much in KC until Mahomes. Belichick has a losing record without Brady. Noll was pretty close to .500 post-Bradshaw. With very few exceptions the big driver is having an elite QB more than it is having an elite coach, and it's not a coincidence that the Steelers went from being good to average/below average when Ben got hurt in 2019 and was never the same.

 

[Peat]

While I'm probably the most agnostic person on Tomlin around as I think he has real strengths and real weaknesses, I also think all this discussion over what coaches win and don't win is grossly overrated. Reid didn't win much in KC until Mahomes. Belichick has a losing record without Brady. Noll was pretty close to .500 post-Bradshaw. With very few exceptions the big driver is having an elite QB more than it is having an elite coach, and it's not a coincidence that the Steelers went from being good to average/below average when Ben got hurt in 2019 and was never the same.

I fully agree with this and it raises what should be the most important question -

Can Tomlin be part of the equation that spots and develops an elite QB?

That's the Steelers' big question right now. Not whether he's good at getting a respectable number of wins with a bad QB. Not whether he's bad at getting an elite QB to win stuff. But can he make Pickett - or the next stab if Pickett doesn't work out and Tomlin survives - the guy.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I've never understood any fan willing to shield a coach from scrutiny? They're paid good money to perform and the Steelers lay high expectations (or used to). The fear of 'what if the next coach is worse' is a losing attitude.

Like you stated 3 playoff wins in 12 years with the QB and talent we've had?

In those 3 wins that Qb combined for 3 tds

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In those 3 wins that Qb combined for 3 tds

And in 2 weeks you've combined for zero avatars

 

[bigdaddyk88]

And in 2 weeks you've combined for zero avatars

Do you know how how to make one.
I don’t and the person who made the bet with me doesn’t either

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Can someone make "Tomlin is a Fraud" avatar?