OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

[ziggyjoe212]

Tomlin is a polarizing coach. On one hand he has his flaws and he's had an awful playoff record in the past decade. And he hires bad coordinators.
On the flip side, his ability to make teams win despite having bad players and/or bad QB and/or bad coordinators is impressive.
Of course, it's his fault for hiring these coordinators in the first place. But getting 8 wins in 2019 with Rudolph and Duck, or getting 7-9 wins this season is nothing to scoff at.

In a season when the Steelers are in chaos and have an awful offense with a mediocre (at best) rookie QB, spend half the year without the DPOY, they are still a .500 ish team.

And I'm not saying it's a point of pride to be .500. Some teams are barely at .500 even with an elite QB.

 

[Peat]

Tomlin is a polarizing coach. On one hand he has his flaws and he's had an awful playoff record in the past decade. And he hires bad coordinators.
On the flip side, his ability to make teams win despite having bad players and/or bad QB and/or bad coordinators is impressive.
Of course, it's his fault for hiring these coordinators in the first place. But getting 8 wins in 2019 with Rudolph and Duck, or getting 7-9 wins this season is nothing to scoff at.

In a season when the Steelers are in chaos and have an awful offense with a mediocre (at best) rookie QB, spend half the year without the DPOY, they are still a .500 ish team.

And I'm not saying it's a point of pride to be .500. Some teams are barely at .500 even with an elite QB.

He's also got a lot to do with the players brought in. One of the reasons this team doesn't feel like its underperforming right now is we knew the line was going to be a work in progress at very best. Why? Team didn't bother trying to bring through new players until it was too late. Tomlin was part of that. Part of Pickett being there too, and the decisions that meant Pickett was never given the training needed for a guy who'd start most of the season in the pre-season.

It seems to me that Tomlin's blueprint for pretty much every game is to create a tight game and hope his team gets over the line in the pivotal moments. Conservative offence, big play defence. It is great for getting pretty ordinary looking teams to get wins. It is not great for getting loaded teams to get over the hump.

And in the NFL, the former is somewhere between worth not much and actually harmful, and the latter is pretty much everything.

The big thing about Tomlin that bugs me is his role is about development. Inexperienced players and coaches come into the org and need to be turned into difference makers. How often have we seen that? How often have we seen that the past five years? I'll take this quote I just found in The Athletic:

“The hardest thing for older coaches isn’t innovation or work ethic or want-to,” an exec from a team outside the AFC East said on the condition of anonymity for competitive reasons. “None of that has changed. What changes is coaching up the young coaches. It’s a pain in the ass to go back and teach somebody the way to do everything. And so you carry coaches on your staff sometimes because they mimic that message he wants about culture or whatever, not necessarily because they are the best coaches or the best fits.”

They were talking about Belichick, but it sure feels like Tomlin fits well enough into that bucket. Once that starts, everyone suffers.

Dude needs to show he can be part of rebuilding an org and fast, or he should be gone.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

They were set to have a ton of cap before the Fitz deal, but I haven’t looked at the numbers since his deal.

That number I originally saw before his deal would obviously be significantly lower now.

I’d love to see them find a top ILB via FA, but haven’t looked at who is available or potentially available.

I don’t think they go for the above average guys like Edmunds in Buffalo are going to want 14 million a year. Jack is already on the books for 11 million next year.
Jackson isn’t getting 12 million here and no way does mitch see the 10 million he is owed next year. They have 19 million to spend but can open up tons more if they restructure TJ nad Heyward.
I think you can bank on JJ being brought in to rotate with Cam and I want payne from DC. I they could go after Bradberry instead of William jackson

They were set to have a ton of cap before the Fitz deal, but I haven’t looked at the numbers since his deal.

That number I originally saw before his deal would obviously be significantly lower now.

I’d love to see them find a top ILB via FA, but haven’t looked at who is available or potentially available.

I agree with the idea that Pickett taking developmental steps probably beats picking 12th instead of 16th, and I don't really feel worried about the draft considering their record/recent changes



I don't think the team is short of starters, but it is short of a CB1. That's something worth considering where they might be picking.

Although they must just be short of starters full stop if Sutton walks.

Sutton is interesting to me does he settle for Hilton 4-24 or does he want top end NB which is 10 million aav. He is our best CB and worth it

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Smith doubling down on Canada.

 

[JTG]

They were set to have a ton of cap before the Fitz deal, but I haven’t looked at the numbers since his deal.

That number I originally saw before his deal would obviously be significantly lower now.

I’d love to see them find a top ILB via FA, but haven’t looked at who is available or potentially available.

Cornerback

James Bradberry, Philadelphia Eagles
Marcus Peters, Baltimore Ravens
Emmanuel Mosley, San Francisco 49ers
Rock Ya-Sin, Las Vegas Raiders
Tre Flowers, Cincinnati Bengals
Jamel Dean, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Greedy Williams, Cleveland Browns
Byron Murphy, Arizona Cardinals
Jonathan Jones, New England Patriots
Patrick Peterson, Minnesota Vikings

I know Rock Ya-Sin was a Tomlin favorite. Byron Murphy was highly rated coming out of Washington, and he's had a rough go in AZ. He's young and could be a prime candidate for a buy-low scenario.

Smith doubling down on Canada.

A fantastic coach doesn't keep a shit coordinator. Part of me does wonder if Mike Tomlin was white, would players run to praise him like they do? Players say he's a great coach, but it doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Cornerback

James Bradberry, Philadelphia Eagles
Marcus Peters, Baltimore Ravens
Emmanuel Mosley, San Francisco 49ers
Rock Ya-Sin, Las Vegas Raiders
Tre Flowers, Cincinnati Bengals
Jamel Dean, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Greedy Williams, Cleveland Browns
Byron Murphy, Arizona Cardinals
Jonathan Jones, New England Patriots
Patrick Peterson, Minnesota Vikings

I know Rock Ya-Sin was a Tomlin favorite. Byron Murphy was highly rated coming out of Washington, and he's had a rough go in AZ. He's young and could be a prime candidate for a buy-low scenario.



A fantastic coach doesn't keep a shit coordinator. Part of me does wonder if Mike Tomlin was white, would players run to praise him like they do? Players say he's a great coach, but it doesn't pass the sniff test.

I don’t think it’s race as much as it’s a longevity thing. They assume since he’s been around for 16 years he’s a great coach… they ignore that’s only because he was lucky enough to be hired by an org that hasn’t fired a coach in over 50 yrs.

I doubt they would be praising a black coach with way less tenure that hasn’t won a playoff game going on six years and not being able to break double digit wins in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

Of course any coach like that would have been fired outside the Steelers org, but the point remains.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

I don’t think it’s race as much as it’s a longevity thing. They assume since he’s been around for 16 years he’s a great coach… they ignore that’s only because he was lucky enough to be hired by an org that hasn’t fired a coach in over 50 yrs.

I doubt they would be praising a black coach with way less tenure that hasn’t won a playoff game going on six years and not being able to break double digit wins in 4 of the last 5 seasons.

Of course any coach like that would have been fired outside the Steelers org, but the point remains.

Payton is the most sought after Coach right now. He has a 9-8 record in the playoffs 3 straight 7-9 seasons with a hof Qb and 4 playoff wins since 2013 if that resume is hot
Coach resume A 152- 88 regular season 631 win percentage
9-8 in the playoffs
161-97 carrer
Coach B 161-93-2 8-9 in the playoffs 169-102 record
Coach A thinks taysom hill is an nfl Qb
Since 13 both teams have cracked double digit wins 5 times

 

[ChaosAgent]

Payton is the most sought after Coach right now. He has a 9-8 record in the playoffs 3 straight 7-9 seasons with a hof Qb and 4 playoff wins since 2013 if that resume is hot
Coach resume A 152- 88 regular season 631 win percentage
9-8 in the playoffs
161-97 carrer
Coach B 161-93-2 8-9 in the playoffs 169-102 record
Coach A thinks taysom hill is an nfl Qb
Since 13 both teams have cracked double digit wins 5 times

Avatar plz

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Payton is the most sought after Coach right now. He has a 9-8 record in the playoffs 3 straight 7-9 seasons with a hof Qb and 4 playoff wins since 2013 if that resume is hot
Coach resume A 152- 88 regular season 631 win percentage
9-8 in the playoffs
161-97 carrer
Coach B 161-93-2 8-9 in the playoffs 169-102 record
Coach A thinks taysom hill is an nfl Qb
Since 13 both teams have cracked double digit wins 5 times

Cmon bro you are trying to go back to 2013 to skewer the stats. The last five years Payton had three playoff wins, with 11, 13, 13, 12, 9 (with Winston at QB) win seasons.

Payton also has a winning playoff record.

Vs Tomlin who has one double digit win season in that time, zero playoff wins and a losing playoff record.

One is not like the other.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Avatar plz

Make it for me plz

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Cmon bro you are trying to go back to 2013 to skewer the stats. The last five years Payton had three playoff wins, with 11, 13, 13, 12, 9 (with Winston at QB) win seasons.

Payton also has a winning playoff record.

Vs Tomlin who has one double digit win season in that time, zero playoff wins and a losing playoff record.

One is not like the other.

He is 3-4 in the playoffs since 2016 Tomlin is 2-4 big difference
Since 2016 he has 4 10 wins season Tomlin has 3

Cmon bro you are trying to go back to 2013 to skewer the stats. The last five years Payton had three playoff wins, with 11, 13, 13, 12, 9 (with Winston at QB) win seasons.

Payton also has a winning playoff record.

Vs Tomlin who has one double digit win season in that time, zero playoff wins and a losing playoff record.

One is not like the other.

Cmon bro you are trying to go back to 2013 to skewer the stats. The last five years Payton had three playoff wins, with 11, 13, 13, 12, 9 (with Winston at QB) win seasons.

Payton also has a winning playoff record.

Vs Tomlin who has one double digit win season in that time, zero playoff wins and a losing playoff record.

One is not like the other.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He is 3-4 in the playoffs since 2016 Tomlin is 2-4 big difference
Since 2016 he has 4 10 wins season Tomlin has 3

You keep trying to skewer stats to remove the five year sample, which is quite obviously the most relevant, especially given it is the longest modern day franchise record for playoff futility.

Tomlin has exactly one 10+ win season in the last five years, no matter how this season plays out.

Payton had four. Massive difference.

Payton in his last five years won three playoff games.

Tomlin has won zero (and will hit six years without a win this season).

Again, massive difference.

Trying to manipulate the stats beyond what is relevant (Tomlin’s five year string of playoff failure), just shows you have to reach to great depths of desperation to compare him to Payton.

You have to do some mind bending logic to pretend these two coaches have been on the same level the last five years.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Who knows. Raiders have won something like 4 of the last 5 meetings. They seem to have Tomlin's number.

I suspect KP may not play well since he's coming off a concussion. Could just have that feeling because Roth seemed to always shit the bed when he was coming back after an injury,

Guess my prediction was slightly off. Steelers don't have the offensive horsepower to blow anyone out, really

He is 3-4 in the playoffs since 2016 Tomlin is 2-4 big difference
Since 2016 he has 4 10 wins season Tomlin has 3

You sure do post a ton, yet haven't uploaded any avatar....

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Guess my prediction was slightly off. Steelers don't have the offensive horsepower to blow anyone out, really



You sure do post a ton, yet haven't uploaded any avatar....

Ya KP and the offense basically played how I expected until the final two minutes.

Props to KP and all the young guys (Muth, Harris and Pickens) stepping up on that final drive.

Offense is still a big ass mess though. I can’t imagine they do anything in the last two games to convince me Canada shouldn’t be fired.

I’ll be shocked if Tomlin fires him though, because having no fear of your job makes you do stupid shit.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

You keep trying to skewer stats to remove the five year sample, which is quite obviously the most relevant, especially given it is the longest modern day franchise record for playoff futility.

Tomlin has exactly one 10+ win season in the last five years, no matter how this season plays out.

Payton had four. Massive difference.

Payton in his last five years won three playoff games.

Tomlin has won zero (and will hit six years without a win this season).

Again, massive difference.

Trying to manipulate the stats beyond what is relevant (Tomlin’s five year string of playoff failure), just shows you have to reach to great depths of desperation to compare him to Payton.

You have to do some mind bending logic to pretend these two coaches have been on the same level the last five years.

I am from 2016 to 2021 since Allen took over coaching 2022. How is that not going over the 5 year span.

You keep trying to skewer stats to remove the five year sample, which is quite obviously the most relevant, especially given it is the longest modern day franchise record for playoff futility.

Tomlin has exactly one 10+ win season in the last five years, no matter how this season plays out.

Payton had four. Massive difference.

Payton in his last five years won three playoff games.

Tomlin has won zero (and will hit six years without a win this season).

Again, massive difference.

Trying to manipulate the stats beyond what is relevant (Tomlin’s five year string of playoff failure), just shows you have to reach to great depths of desperation to compare him to Payton.

You have to do some mind bending logic to pretend these two coaches have been on the same level the last five years.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I am from 2016 to 2021 since Allen took over coaching 2022. How is that not going over the 5 year span.

2017
2018
2019
2020
2021

Five year span before Payton left.

Tomlin five year span:

2018
2019
2020
2021
2022

Go look up what Payton did vs Tomlin in their last five years.

I already told you, but go ahead anyway.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The issue I have always had with Tomlin is that his teams are not prepared or disciplined. Just this year the players have spoken about how they felt they were not prepared for the game. That is 100% squarely on the shoulders of the coach. His teams consistently play down to competition. The fact absolutely no success came from the Killer B era of Steelers football is a travesty. He refuses to hire legit coordinators. Luckily Flores was black, because if he wasn't Tomlin wouldn't have even pondered bringing him on board if he wasn't. Tomlin forced out Arians, Lebeau, and Munchak. All guys who went on to continue coaching despite "retiring."

With all of this being said, Cowher's teams were very similar. For the longest time he couldn't get over the top. His teams blew leads and he couldn't win the big game. It's been an issue here for a really long time. It's revisionist history for those who believe Cowher was so much better than Tomlin. The big difference between Cowher and Tomlin is Cowher's teams were at least prepared. He had great coordiinators. He fell in the same trap as Tomlin though were he would take responsibilities away from coordinators and fact is, Cowher was an average coach but great motivator. It's a complete repeat here.

The major difference between Cowher and Tomlin was 1 knew how to utilize a Franchise QB and the other didn't

In Cowher's first couple of years of having Ben he gets the AFC Champ Game, then wins the SB

No i am going to make the Tomlin is fraud avatar

Still waiting....

 

[bigdaddyk88]

2017
2018
2019
2020
2021

Five year span before Payton left.

Tomlin five year span:

2018
2019
2020
2021
2022

Go look up what Payton did vs Tomlin in their last five years.

I already told you, but go ahead anyway.

From 2016 to 2021 the saints won 3 playoff games and lost 4. In those same years Tomlin went 2-4.
I am not going to go 2022 for Tomlin since he is still coaching and didn’t take a year off like Sean keep the 5 year stretch the same

2017
2018
2019
2020
2021

Five year span before Payton left.

Tomlin five year span:

2018
2019
2020
2021
2022

Go look up what Payton did vs Tomlin in their last five years.

I already told you, but go ahead anyway.

The major difference between Cowher and Tomlin was 1 knew how to utilize a Franchise QB and the other didn't

In Cowher's first couple of years of having Ben he gets the AFC Champ Game, then wins the SB

Cowher didn’t even want Ben and the treated ben like a game manager

The major difference between Cowher and Tomlin was 1 knew how to utilize a Franchise QB and the other didn't

In Cowher's first couple of years of having Ben he gets the AFC Champ Game, then wins the SB



Still waiting....

When you going to make it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

When you going to make it.

You stated that YOU were going to make it. Check your post history, my dude

OT: - The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

He said he didn’t see it, but there is a thing called video replay so let’s see if he is asked about it Tuesday. is that like telling my wife that i didn't hear her calling me? just asking.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

From 2016 to 2021 the saints won 3 playoff games and lost 4. In those same years Tomlin went 2-4.
I am not going to go 2022 for Tomlin since he is still coaching and didn’t take a year off like Sean keep the 5 year stretch the same


Cowher didn’t even want Ben and the treated ben like a game manager


When you going to make it.

So basically you want to create your own reality?

2016-2021 is a six year sample, but you obviously want to go all the way back to 2016 because it’s the last time Tomlin won.

It’s pretty simple to see through what you are doing so it’s pretty cringe worthy.

The five year sample size is exactly what I told you for each coach - their last five years of coaching.

Stop trying to manipulate it to make Tomlin look good.

Tomlin has zero chance of reaching ten wins this season. Let’s not pretend the math is difficult and you can’t calculate 7+2.

No matter what happens he will not reach double digit wins.

He has almost zero chance of making the playoffs (2%). Should he do that and win a game finally, feel free to bookmark this post and bring it up.

3 playoff wins vs zero.

4 double digit win seasons vs 1.

Again, not even close.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

You stated that YOU were going to make it. Check your post history, my dude

OT: - The Pittsburgher Thread: 2022 Handball season has arrived!

He said he didn’t see it, but there is a thing called video replay so let’s see if he is asked about it Tuesday. is that like telling my wife that i didn't hear her calling me? just asking.

forums.hfboards.com

I said i was going to try and make it. The person i made the bet with said they didn’t know how to make an avatar. I found some gifs about Tomlin being a fraud. Guy drags a team with mason and duck to 8 wins and potentially 9 with MT and Kp is the definition of a fraud for a spoiled fan base

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I said i was going to try and make it. The person i made the bet with said they didn’t know how to make an avatar. I found some gifs about Tomlin being a fraud. Guy drags a team with mason and duck to 8 wins and potentially 9 with MT and Kp is the definition of a fraud for a spoiled fan base

Not true. I mean, just be honest and don't make shit up.

bigdaddyk88 said:
No i am going to make the Tomlin is fraud avatar

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

https://www.steelernation.com/steelers- ... eve-smith/
Smith Doesn’t Mince Words About Steelers’ Matt Canada

The former Carolina Panthers and Baltimore Ravens wide receiver did not pull any punches during the postgame show. Smith is part of an NFL Network crew that includes Maurice Jones-Drew, Michael Robinson, and Colleen Wolfe. As they discussed the Steelers’ win, Smith let his thoughts about the coordinator be known.

He called Canada’s offense, “Saturdayish.” By this, he means it is more tailored to a college level than a pro level since college games are traditionally played on Saturdays.
When he was asked to elaborate on what he meant, Smith had this to say:

“I’m saying his play-calling is Saturday and this, even though today is Saturday, is Sunday football and it isn’t going to work here. Not on this level,” Smith said. “He’s calling Saturday plays on Sunday.”

However, Canada is taking more heat this season than is even normal. He has come under fire from multiple players who have called his play-calling “predictable.” This includes the Ravens’ Patrick Queen who intercepted Mitch Trubisky during the two teams’ last meeting. Queen implied that he knew the play Canada would run:
“There were two wide receivers over here and ’88’ on the other side,” Queen said in reference to [Pat] Freiermuth. “I just knew there were like three things he runs from over there. I just already knew what he was about to do.”

 

[Josey Wales]

Fittipaldo: OC Matt Canada Still Expected To Be Let Go After The Season: 'The Players Know'

Though the Pittsburgh Steelers’ offense has shown improvement since the bye week, at least one beat writer believes OC Matt Canada hasn’t done enough to save his job. The PPG’s Ray Fittipaldo appeared on 93.7 The Fan with Andrew Fillipponi yesterday and said he expects Canada to be gone when the...

steelersdepot.com

 

[ziggyjoe212]

So basically you want to create your own reality?

2016-2021 is a six year sample, but you obviously want to go all the way back to 2016 because it’s the last time Tomlin won.

It’s pretty simple to see through what you are doing so it’s pretty cringe worthy.

The five year sample size is exactly what I told you for each coach - their last five years of coaching.

Stop trying to manipulate it to make Tomlin look good.

Tomlin has zero chance of reaching ten wins this season. Let’s not pretend the math is difficult and you can’t calculate 7+2.

No matter what happens he will not reach double digit wins.

He has almost zero chance of making the playoffs (2%). Should he do that and win a game finally, feel free to bookmark this post and bring it up.

3 playoff wins vs zero.

4 double digit win seasons vs 1.

Again, not even close.

While the last 5 years may skew towards Payton, I think any football fan can acknowledge that Payton and Tomlin are in the same tier of coach. I'll also throw in Harbaugh and Reid in there.

Belichik is the best HC, but even he has a losing record without Brady.