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Blue Jays Discussion: The official Davis Schneider Appreciation Society

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phillipmike said:
That is great and all. But do we need to here it every day? Most of you guys arent Moreno fans but you dislike the FO and are stoking the flames to antagonize the rest of the Board.
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It’s no different then hearing from the apologists everyday that everything is fine.

A lot of people didnt like the trade, you can go back and read about it. It was just compounded due to Moreno having a good playoffs.



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GreytWun said:
It’s no different then hearing from the apologists everyday that everything is fine.

A lot of people didnt like the trade, you can go back and read about it. It was just compounded due to Moreno having a good playoffs.



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They say that only after hearing about the Moreno trade from you guys. I was and am one of those guys who hated the trade. But we still have at least 3 more years of this deal. I remember hating the Gausman deal and letting Ray walk.

We are in year 8 of the Atkins regime and we are talking about losing out on 1 (maybe) great player traded for a very good player in year 8. Atkins hasnt been perfect but if we are talking about (maybe) his first major player transaction mistake in his 8th year, that is a great record to have from a player personnel point of view.

This would be tantamount to Atkins supporters countlessly bringing up;
-getting a Cy Young winner, Robbie Ray for $8M plus getting compensation pick
-getting an MVP ballot player in Semien for 1 year plus getting compensation picks
-getting Matz for nothing
-getting Berrios for 2 prospects who have yet to do anything
-signing the majors' 2nd best pitcher in all of baseball according to fWAR since 2020 in Gausman for a steal of a contract
-getting Gurriel for nothing but money
-Signing Moreno and Kirk in 2016 under constraints after being penalized for overspending on Vladdy
etc.

We have seen some of the best moves in franchise history in terms of value under Atkins. And we may have seen 1 "bad" one in Moreno for Varsho but those players have 3 and 5 more years left of control.

Just hold on a little. Moreno's career isnt incapsulated within 3 months.
 
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GreytWun said:
It’s no different then hearing from the apologists everyday that everything is fine.

A lot of people didnt like the trade, you can go back and read about it. It was just compounded due to Moreno having a good playoffs.



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I also think the backlash would have been less vigorous and more subdued if people who questioned the trade weren't basically being called "idiots" who "don't watch baseball" for months by all those who blindly defend anything the front office does.
 
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TheMadHatTrick said:
I also think the backlash would have been less vigorous and more subdued if people who questioned the trade weren't basically being called "idiots" who "don't watch baseball" for months by all those who blindly defend anything the front office does.
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Not sure that happened. But to rate a trade so early makes absolutely no sense. It can’t be properly evaluated until a few seasons from now. And people are acting like Varsho is some scrub
 
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TheMadHatTrick said:
I also think the backlash would have been less vigorous and more subdued if people who questioned the trade weren't basically being called "idiots" who "don't watch baseball" for months by all those who blindly defend anything the front office does.
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I don't think there is anyone in here who blindly defends everything the front office does.
 
TheMadHatTrick said:
I also think the backlash would have been less vigorous and more subdued if people who questioned the trade weren't basically being called "idiots" who "don't watch baseball" for months by all those who blindly defend anything the front office does.
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I wasn't a huge fan of the trade at the time. I was actually glad Gurriel was part of it but didn't see the fit for the dbacks. I like many wanted Kirk gone to keep Moreno but we have no idea what the negotiations were and if the jays also would have preferred it to be Kirk. Varsho was a perfect target for the Jays and what they wanted to do. The reason everyone hates the trade is because Varsho missed his projections for power greatly and didn't hit like he normally does. That wasn't unique to just him this year. I'm holding out hope that Varsho's bat comes back to life next year and things will even out some. A full year in CF should easily get him a GG. I don't remember people trashing on anyone questioning the trade. Lots of the so called "apologists" had issue with it as well.
 
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If the 77,000 batting coaches, batting strategist, batting doctors, batting stylists, batting guru's are not fired we are goign to ahve much the same next year.

Arizona is the team the Jays wanted to be ...
 
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Hellcat said:
If the 77,000 batting coaches, batting strategist, batting doctors, batting stylists, batting guru's are not fired we are goign to ahve much the same next year.

Arizona is the team the Jays wanted to be ...
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If 2023 Arizona Diamondbacks were the team the Jays wanted to be, they would have missed the playoffs by 5 games.

Arizona won 84 games with a negative run differential and lost 4 games in row going into the playoffs including a sweep vs the Astros. Congratulations on their run but they were incredibly lucky and a weak playoff hunt. If Suzuki catchers the 27 out during the last week of the season for the Cubs, Arizona might not have made the playoffs.
 
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Hellcat said:
If the 77,000 batting coaches, batting strategist, batting doctors, batting stylists, batting guru's are not fired we are goign to ahve much the same next year.

Arizona is the team the Jays wanted to be ...
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Both were actually tied middle of the pack in runs scored. The difference is the Jays payroll was nearly 2x theirs.

One team underachieved, the other overachieved.
 
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TheMadHatTrick said:
Candelario would be one of my top targets outside of Ohtani, Yamamoto, or Hoo-Lee. Switch-hitter with power who can play 3B or 1B. Relatively young but shouldn't cost a lot.

For left field I'd either target Lee or grab Heyward for cheap on a short term (he's more of a RF than LF but we could always move Springer to LF if necessary).

Sign JD Martinez/Rhys Hoskins short term to DH and provide some much needed pop.

Springer RF
Lee LF
Bichette SS
Guerrero 1B
Candelario 3B
Martinez/Hoskins DH
Varsho CF
Jansen/Kirk C
Biggio/Schneider 2B
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J.D. Martinez would be a great ad. Even Hoskins. For me, the success of this offseason comes down to getting two higher-end bats to bat 2nd and 3rd so we can push Vlad and Bichette down to batting 4th and 5th. Vlad and Bo would be great in their lineup spots if they batted 4th and 5th, but I need to see more production to be content with them hitting 2nd and 3rd again.

Bo and Vlad OPS last 2 seasons:

Bichette - .808
Vlad Jr. - .803

This is over 2,686 plate appearances. I think they are likely to improve but they could also not.

This is pretty good production if they are batting 4th and 5th, but I need more output in the 2-3 hole.

Something like this is my dream scenario:

1. Springer
2. Martinez
3. Soto
4. Vlad Jr.
5. Bichette
 
Puckstuff said:
J.D. Martinez would be a great ad. Even Hoskins. For me, the success of this offseason comes down to getting two higher-end bats to bat 2nd and 3rd so we can push Vlad and Bichette down to batting 4th and 5th. Vlad and Bo would be great in their lineup spots if they batted 4th and 5th, but I need to see more production to be content with them hitting 2nd and 3rd again.

Bo and Vlad OPS last 2 seasons:

Bichette - .808
Vlad Jr. - .803

This is over 2,686 plate appearances. I think they are likely to improve but they could also not.

This is pretty good production if they are batting 4th and 5th, but I need more output in the 2-3 hole.

Something like this is my dream scenario:

1. Springer
2. Martinez
3. Soto
4. Vlad Jr.
5. Bichette
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How did you get Soto while keeping vlad and Bo
 
I have a hard time believing Merrifield would have turned down his option if the Jays had picked it up.
 
Bjindaho said:
San Diego is in bad shape financially
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doesn't mean they are giving away Soto

Just read that they borrowed 50 million to cover payroll last year. Yikes. It still won’t make players cheap to acquire. Teams will just have to be willing to take on the whole contract of the given player

I was going to suggest maybe targeting Machado but holy hell that contract is going to age poorly. Still 10 years left and in like two years the average salary climbs to 39 million a year. I think I’ll pass on that with him coming off a down year and a 2.9war
 
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