Blue Jays Discussion: The official Danny Jackson Appreciation Society

[kb]

I don't know, I think the Angels' best move was to get a huge haul for Ohtani. I get that they're in a unique spot because they're at risk of wasting two generational talents on the same team so there's added incentive to go for it, but with all of their injuries they're now at a point where they're just desperately trying to keep things afloat rather than really going for it.

At this point, the most likely scenario is that they spend a bunch of assets trying to push for the playoffs, don't make it, and lose Ohtani for nothing.

Just musing, but how many players are the Angels going to have to DFA once people start getting healthy? Didn't I hear they had something like 12 players on the DL right now?

Could be a low key nightmare situation for them after the deadline.

 

[Petes]

Predict the next jays move…

I’ll start: Otto Lopez to Oakland for Ramon Laureano

 

[MS]

I wonder if Cabrera’s instant success here gave them more confidence to acquire a STL pitcher with some control issues.

In any case, like the deal. Pen now looks legitimately deep.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

First 6 batters of the game score for Baltimore. Luis Severino is a worse version of Manoah at this point.

He's suffering the affliction of being about a thousand years old. I don't believe anyone that tells me he wasn't teammates with guys like Paul O'Neill and Bernie Williams. For whatever reason super specifically and strongly with that guy I just feel like I have seen him appear about a thousand times for them.

 

[Discoverer]

Just musing, but how many players are the Angels going to have to DFA once people start getting healthy? Didn't I hear they had something like 12 players on the DL right now?

Could be a low key nightmare situation for them after the deadline.

I checked their roster and they have 10 guys on the 60-day, so if any of them are ready to come back this year, someone needs to be DFA'd.

I assume a lot of them are done for the year, but still... it's complicated enough for the Jays to make room for Ryu and Green without losing too many players let alone finding space for a bunch more.

 

[Dr.Funk]

Predict the next jays move…

I’ll start: Otto Lopez to Oakland for Ramon Laureano

Ewwww. Laureano stinks. Literally provides nothing we need. Can't hit, no power, doesn't get on base, doesn't steal.

He has a great arm but that doesn't help much because he won't be out there much anyway.

 

[Discoverer]

Ewwww. Laureano stinks. Literally provides nothing we need. Can't hit, no power, doesn't get on base, doesn't steal.

He has a great arm but that doesn't help much because he won't be out there much anyway.

He's still hitting lefties this year (119 wRC+, though mostly BABIP-driven), so he could be a cheaper option as the platoon OF they need. His defense rates out really well this year, too.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

I really like the move. That team should be all in. If not now, i don’t know when.

Bonus if we are able to resign him.

I get someone thinking something like "oh we can't lose these guys that will (narrator: maybe)provide cheap, team controlled depth so we can spend more on other needs in the future", but that's overlooking the fact we are already getting that from Vlad and more so Bo. Robberse and Kloffenstein aren't even guaranteed to be 4/5s and we are worried about losing them over throwing a couple lifelines to a very good baseball team? I cannot fathom not seeing this as a worthy team to go for it with.

 

[MS]

I get someone thinking something like "oh we can't lose these guys that will (narrator: maybe)provide cheap, team controlled depth so we can spend more on other needs in the future", but that's overlooking the fact we are already getting that from Vlad and more so Bo. Robberse and Kloffenstein aren't even guaranteed to be 4/5s and we are worried about losing them over throwing a couple lifelines to a very good baseball team? I cannot fathom not seeing this as a worthy team to go for it with.

They’ve also been very good at knowing their own farm system and when to sell high to maximize value so they certainly have my benefit of the doubt. The Berrios trade in particular stands out.

 

[Vector]

I know people hate Keith Law but he doesn’t think much of Robberse or Kloffenstein. Says Robberse has backslid this season and doesn’t see much upside unless he finds another 2-3mph on his fastball. Thinks Kloffenstein has relief pitcher ceiling.

Blue Jays management has trended in trading their prospects right as they begin to slide, before most fans notice, while they still have value.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

They’ve also been very good at knowing their own farm system and when to sell high to maximize value so they certainly have my benefit of the doubt. The Berrios trade in particular stands out.

I will give Berrios every last chance till the very end. I absolutely love watching him throw a baseball.

 

[The Nemesis]

Seems like a too heavy price

Kinda sucks about Robberse but his projections are to be a soft-tossing control-focused 4/5 starter with a low floor because he lacks velo and strikeouts unless he bulks up and adds power. Makes me think he's a high variance guy where if it all clicks he's solid but unspectacular and if he doesn't patch his holes he may not even be MLB viable.

Kloffenstein was a highly regarded pick at the draft but that seems like it was his peak. He's never really gotten himself together at the pro level and has struggled highly at times. He seems like a lottery ticket at best.


Maybe Robberse comes back to bite the Jays, but the other thing working against him is the high attrition rate of pitching prospects. Of all the big names the Jays have traded out of the system in the last decade or so, the only ones that really ended up haunting the team were Syndergaard and sorta Matt Boyd in a very minor way. Meanwhile Norris and Hoffman and Nicolino and all the b and c tier guys they dealt mostly ended up amounting to nothing of significance.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Law: Cardinals capitalize on trades with Rangers, Blue Jays in rare turn as sellers

The Cardinals sent Jordan Montgomery to Texas and Jordan Hicks to Toronto, netting five prospects in return.

theathletic.com

There was talk about the Cardinals working out a long-term extension with Hicks, which would have been incredibly misguided for a reliever who’s already had Tommy John surgery and has consistently had walk rates far worse than the league average, including this year where he’s walked 12.7 percent of batters faced (NL average for relievers: 9.6 percent). Yes, Hicks sits 100-plus mph on his sinker and his sweeper/slider/dojigger gets a ton of whiffs, and that gives him some value because he gets groundballs and misses bats. He also walks too many guys and when he gives up contact it’s generally very hard contact, which is why he’s only been worth a win above replacement in 215 career innings. The Jays did just place closer Jordan Romano on the IL with a back injury, and their right-handed relief corps has been solid but unspectacular. Hicks gives them a different look and someone beyond Trevor Richards who comes into a game with a high probability that he’ll strike out the next batter.

Right-hander Sem Robberse is the better of the two prospects coming to the Cardinals in this trade, although he’s had a disappointing 2023 where his stuff hasn’t progressed at all from last year and is sliding even as the season has gone along. He was signed at 16 out of the Netherlands as a highly projectable pitcher with a great delivery and command for his age, but who was working in the mid-80s. He’s still mostly just 90-92 mph, topping out at 94 mph, with a 55 slider and curveball as well as a solid-average changeup, which should make him a back-end starter … but hitters get on his fastball, hitting nine of the 14 homers he’s allowed this year off the heater, and that propensity for hard contact keeps him from projecting as a starter right now. He won’t turn 22 until October so he’s young enough to find another 2-3 mph somewhere. That might make him a mid-rotation starter, whereas now he might just be an emergency call-up.

Right-hander Adam Kloffenstein repeated Double A this year and had improved results, although his stuff is still average at best and he’s going to have a harder time against even slightly more disciplined hitters. His best pitch, and his most-used one, is his slider, which was below-average last year but is solid-average now with a little better break and more velocity. He’s 90-94 mph now, up a little from 90-92 last year, although the pitch still doesn’t miss any bats and he has below-average command. His changeup is a distant third among his pitches and as a result, he’s had enough of a platoon split to question whether he could start even if his fastball and slider were better. I think he’s got a reliever ceiling, although that could work if moving to shorter outings boosts the velocity and effectiveness of the slider, but the most likely outcome is that he’s an up-and-down guy. For Hicks, who’s been wild when he hasn’t been hurt, this seems like a fair return as well.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Garcia will finish with a 2.25 ERA in July after a 2.16 mark in June. He had an awful start, but he's been himself for a while now.

I think the obvious bullpen when healthy will be Romano, Hicks, Swanson, Garcia, Richards, Green, and Mayza.

Jackson, Pearson, Cabrera, and Pop will be in Buffalo since they all have options.

That's such a strong pen with really good depth to fill in for injuries.

Is that your September pen? If counting six starters, we need I believe eight relievers.

 

[Cloned]

Hopefully the Cubs lose tomorrow and put Bellinger back on the market lol.

 

[The Nemesis]

Is that your September pen? If counting six starters, we need I believe eight relievers.

Francis would be a nice 8th reliever to also be able to function as a long man if necessary.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Francis would be a nice 8th reliever to also be able to function as a long man if necessary.

Do you like him for that, or do you like Genesis as a second lefty if he's for real pretty close to how he's looked so far?

 

[Kurtz]

Hicks may be better than on first glance. He was horrible in March-April, then made an adjustment to his position on the mound and has been great since.

 

[The Nemesis]

Do you like him for that, or do you like Genesis as a second lefty if he's for real pretty close to how he's looked so far?

I may have accidentally forgotten about him

He makes more sense than Francis.

 

[Discoverer]

Is that your September pen? If counting six starters, we need I believe eight relievers.

No, that's if everyone were healthy right now. Add one of the guys with options in September.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[phillipmike]

 

[phillipmike]

I predict Verlander to the O's. He isnt happy with the Mets selling and at this point in his career its more than just money. He wants to win. Im sure the Dodgers are his first option but i cant see Cohen running to trade him to LA. Current O's GM, Elias was a member of Houston that acquired Verlander. Balitmore is a 3 hour drive from NYC or a 1 hour flight. Im sure Verlander can get Angelos to use his private jet to fly to and from NYC for Verlander to visit Upton who probably wanted New York City for work.

Baltimore has the best pen in the league by almost 2 WAR. There hitting is deep with 7 hitters with a 110 wRC+ or better. They could improve their defense but starting pitching is the spot to improve the most as they sit 22nd. Adding a game 1 starter in Verlander would be huge for them.

Also think the Jays re-acquire Teo. Not many OF options out there other than Pham and Canha and i think there is a bidding war for them as they are the only valuable bats out there. Jays buy low on Teo because i cant see the M's offering him a QO so they try to get some value for him. Ideally we trade Biggio for Teo as Seattle has been looking for a lefty 2B for years but i assume Seattle would want more. Is it Biggio and Francis or Horwitz or maybe they want Davis Schneider.

 

[stats1]

Chad Greene coming back soon is going to be so big for this team. It’s all about cutting the game shorter in the playoffs. Jays can now line up their BP from the 6th inning. (Chad Greene/Cabrera, 7th (Swanson/Mayza) 8th (Hicks) and Romano closing.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I predict Verlander to the O's. He isnt happy with the Mets selling and at this point in his career its more than just money. He wants to win. Im sure the Dodgers are his first option but i cant see Cohen running to trade him to LA. Current O's GM, Elias was a member of Houston that acquired Verlander. Balitmore is a 3 hour drive from NYC or a 1 hour flight. Im sure Verlander can get Angelos to use his private jet to fly to and from NYC for Verlander to visit Upton who probably wanted New York City for work.

Baltimore has the best pen in the league by almost 2 WAR. There hitting is deep with 7 hitters with a 110 wRC+ or better. They could improve their defense but starting pitching is the spot to improve the most as they sit 22nd. Adding a game 1 starter in Verlander would be huge for them.

Also think the Jays re-acquire Teo. Not many OF options out there other than Pham and Canha and i think there is a bidding war for them as they are the only valuable bats out there. Jays buy low on Teo because i cant see the M's offering him a QO so they try to get some value for him. Ideally we trade Biggio for Teo as Seattle has been looking for a lefty 2B for years but i assume Seattle would want more. Is it Biggio and Francis or Horwitz or maybe they want Davis Schneider.

I like Biggio but think he needs a fresh start where he'll play more often
Would welcome Teo back!