HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Habs13]

I'm actually curious are there people out there who are satisfied with the current format.

Playoff format is fine - there's a lot of stuff in the NHL is dislike though. Losers points and shoot-outs etc.

 

[billy piton]

Again, using England as an example - the Premiership has 20 teams and there are 92 times in divisions that could play in the Premiership. So if it works there... why not here?

If Chicago went down, the arena wouldn't magically shrink. They wouldn't have to go play in a 5000 seat arena like the Coyotes already do. No. They would still have tickets to sell to the same fans only, in theory, they should then be one of the better teams that should win their way back up to the top tier.

So, they go from absolute shit and finish last, to games that they start winning and are fun for fans to watch again and possibly earn promotion back up again. Also - it doesn't have to be the AHL. It could be say twelve new expansion teams (no expansion draft) that start at tier 2. Quebec comes back, Hartford too lets say. Now there's a chance the Nordiques make it back to the NHL.

Sounds great to me.

92 teams "could" theoretically play in premiership, but for all intents and purposes, they can't. at least 60% of teams in epl don't really play for the championship, they're just there. and they will be just there, unless some russian oligarch or arabian oil magnat buy them. you get leicester every 100 years and that's about it.

it would be silly to even try to implement salary cap when man. city has salaries at 200m and luton at 20m. relegation system would completely destroy parity, since no second division team would ever be able to pay what is now salary floor in the nhl. huge disparity is prerequisite for a relegation system, since only then second division teams could really enter the top league and hope to nail that 17th (or whatever) place to stay away from relegation.

 

[Habs13]

92 teams "could" theoretically play in premiership, but for all intents and purposes, they can't. at least 60% of teams in epl don't really play for the championship, they're just there. and they will be just there, unless some russian oligarch or arabian oil magnat buy them. you get leicester every 100 years and that's about it.

it would be silly to even try to implement salary cap when man. city has salaries at 200m and luton at 20m. relegation system would completely destroy parity, since no second division team would ever be able to pay what is now salary floor in the nhl. huge disparity is prerequisite for a relegation system, since only then second division teams could really enter the top league and hope to nail that 17th (or whatever) place to stay away from relegation.

When I was a kid, both Chelsea and Manchester City were lower league teams. Also, there is a sort of salary cap. You can't spend more than you make. Teams that move up get a cash bonus that allows then to reach the cap floor.

 

[LaP]

That's part of the point. You still want bad teams to get earlier picks. But you're not cheering for your team to lose. And teams that go real scorched earth don't have a way to turn it on vs teams that try to win.

I'm not saying it's a bad system. I'm just saying it doesn't solve tanking. Teams will still tank to avoid being mathematically eliminated just 1 or 2 games before the season ends. Last year SJ finished the season 3-6-1 (7), Columbus 2-6-2 (6), we finished 3-7 (6), Chicago finished the season 2-7-1 (5) the only outlier in the bottom 5 was Anaheim with 0-8-2 (2).

Chicago despite doing a scorched earth tanking got nearly as many points as us in the last 10 and were able to beat the Pens who were fighting for a playoffs spot. Chicago and the bottom 4 were eliminated a good two weeks before us so Chicago, SJ and Columbus would have likely got the best odds it would have affected Anaheim only.

 

[Rapala]

Playoff format is fine - there's a lot of stuff in the NHL is dislike though. Losers points and shoot-outs etc.

I think the playoff format sucks and have hated it from day 1.
32 teams now begs for an expanded post season. IMO

 

[Lshap]

It's not perfect, but imagine how fun it would be to cheer for the Habs during a rebuild with this system.

So the 1OA goes to the best non-playoff team, but then the 2OA reverts to the lowest-finishing team and continues as normal from there. That makes sense. Finishing strong is rewarded, while bad teams can still rebuild with every other top pick.

 

[Habs13]

I think the playoff format sucks and have hated it from day 1.
32 teams now begs for an expanded post season. IMO

...that's because there's too many teams. How deep into the summer do you want playoff hockey to last?

So the 1OA goes to the best non-playoff team, but then the 2OA reverts to the lowest-finishing team and continues as normal from there. That makes sense. Finishing strong is rewarded, while bad teams can still rebuild with every other top pick.

The PWHL does a lot of things really well. Jailbreak rule for example. I just wish they allowed fighting but.. that's because I'm a goon!

 

[billy piton]

When I was a kid, both Chelsea and Manchester City were lower league teams. Also, there is a sort of salary cap. You can't spend more than you make. Teams that move up get a cash bonus that allows then to reach the cap floor.

yep, and now they are top teams only thanks to wealthy owners, not smart managers, coaches or youth academies. it sucks when money can buy you championships. and don't make me laugh with "soft cap". owners just give money to random "sponsors" that pay it back as sponsorship contract (with fee ofc). european football is a giant moneylaundering enterprise.

 

[An0n]

How convenient.

Nothing convenient about it for them, 3rd surgery on the same shoulder. His career could be over.

 

[Tabarouette]

btw I really dislike the top team picking their opponents in the PWHL, this instantly flips the pressure on them and motivates the chosen team like hell. It's a really bad idea and most teams will most likely end up publicly "randomly" picking a team so it defeats the purpose

 

[Essenege]

Give the best lottery odds to the top non playoff teams. Have a lottery for the top 3 picks, then go by rankings order starting from last.

 

[Habs13]

yep, and now they are top teams only thanks to wealthy owners, not smart managers, coaches or youth academies. it sucks when money can buy you championships. and don't make me laugh with "soft cap". owners just give money to random "sponsors" that pay it back as sponsorship contract (with fee ofc). european football is a giant moneylaundering enterprise.

There's truth to what you're saying but they also had great managers over the years and a strong youth academy. The money made that all possible, sure.

Remember when the New York Rangers would throw money at everybody? That's why the NHL has a cap.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I’m pretty sure Molson can buy the 1st overall pick this year, and that’s what will end up happening. Hang in there.

 

[Rapala]

...that's because there's too many teams. How deep into the summer do you want playoff hockey to last?


The PWHL does a lot of things really well. Jailbreak rule for example. I just wish they allowed fighting but.. that's because I'm a goon!

4 additional teams 2 of 3 post season = 1 week.
A play-in is very doable as we all saw during covid year 1.
I would still differentiate between post season and "The Stanley Cup Playoffs"
Starting the season 1 week earlier is no big deal.

 

[JianYang]

Why not? If it works in a place like England that has hundreds of pro teams... why not here?

The cultural sporting landscape is completely different in England.

If the Florida Panthers go down to a relegation league, nobody is watching that, and with the current CBA, the rich teams will be further subsidizing the poor teams as their operating losses will only increase and that just won't be acceptable to them.

In England, the supporters are much more attached to their teams. Most nhl franchises do not have that same connection to their market. You are further driving away fans with a relegation system in north America, and there's a limit to how much the rich teams will allow the subsidization to occur.

In a system where league revenues are tied to player salaries, this is going to be a hard no from both sides of the table.

 

[Tabarouette]

I’m pretty sure Molson can buy the 1st overall pick this year, and that’s what will end up happening. Hang in there.

Put the picks up for auction, now that's a great idea

Congrats to the Maple Leafs for their 1st overall every year

 

[billy piton]

Teams that move up get a cash bonus that allows then to reach the cap floor

bonus money would certainly help new teams, but where would they find players that would make them even slightly competitive, and what to do with 70m teams that are about to be relegated? the most convenient way would be to transfer whole chicago blackhawks team to providence bruins, but what's the point then?

 

[Sorinth]

I still believe the best way to deal with the whole tanking situation is to just go with a draft wheel. No point to tank because where you pick was already pre-determined, everybody gets a top-5 pick every 6ish years so every team has a steady stream of top talent to build around, teams will still sell at the deadline when they are out of it but now contending teams have real futures to sell instead of the late 1sts that rarely actually help rebuilding teams.

 

[Rapala]

btw I really dislike the top team picking their opponents in the PWHL, this instantly flips the pressure on them and motivates the chosen team like hell. It's a really bad idea and most teams will most likely end up publicly "randomly" picking a team so it defeats the purpose

A good team DGAF.
It lends a certain strategy IMO and I actually proposed this last year on this board.
Take out your main rival round one when you are healthy and full of energy could be a strategic option.
Certain teams have other teams numbers and know it.
Or wait until they are a bit toasted another.

 

[LaP]

I still believe the best way to deal with the whole tanking situation is to just go with a draft wheel. No point to tank because where you pick was already pre-determined, everybody gets a top-5 pick every 6ish years so every team has a steady stream of top talent to build around, teams will still sell at the deadline when they are out of it but now contending teams have real futures to sell instead of the late 1sts that rarely actually help rebuilding teams.

That would be a good system if all drafts would be born equal. But if you get your top 5 in a AG and Yakupov draft then suck to be you you'll have to wait another 5 years for a real top 5 pick.

 

[Tabarouette]

A good team DGAF.
It lends a certain strategy IMO and I actually proposed this last year on this board.
Take out your main rival round one when you are healthy and full of energy could be a strategic option.
Certain teams have other teams numbers and know it.
Or wait until they are a bit toasted another.

That implies teams are fun and the sport/the league has some amount of swagger

We're talking about hockey here my friend, a player made a joke about eating spicy broccoli and beef 3 years ago and journalists still talk about it. They'll NEVER do the fun thing

 

[Redux91]

I look forward to next year where I don't care about where we finish and just hope for wins even though we won't make the playoffs.

Exactly

Purely a development year for everyone next year

Either it goes surprisingly well and we make the playoffs and it's an overall Pleasantly fun outcome for a building block year

Or we either still aren't ready to be a playoff team, or injuries, or it just doesn't go our way and we draft high again

(I kind of had the same mindset for this year going in actually, but the Dach injury obviously changed all that quickly), and we get another much needed top10 pick out if it

It's 'after' next year that if we dont start seeing some type of genuine positive results, THEN you start questioning if the 2 headed monster is still the right management team for this org.

This is what all the "pfff you guys are loyal zombies to every gm all the time, they can never do anything wrong ever, you guys are blind followers blah blah " people can't quite seem to understand , you have to give things like this more than just 2 measley years to brew..

Why do people think the NFL teams that fire the head coach every single year, can't ever seem to get out of the gutter..?

 

[billy piton]

There's truth to what you're saying but they also had great managers over the years and a strong youth academy. The money made that all possible, sure.

Remember when the New York Rangers would throw money at everybody? That's why the NHL has a cap.

yes, and euro leagues would love to have salary cap, but it's impossible since there is such a huge discrepancy in team's incomes. top teams tried to establish superleague, but were quashed mercilessly.

 

[Rapala]

That implies teams are fun and the sport/the league has some amount of swagger

We're talking about hockey here my friend, a player made a joke about eating spicy broccoli and beef 3 years ago and journalists still talk about it. They'll NEVER do the fun thing

I'm sorry I though we were talking about the top teams picking their rivals in the post season.
Which I am not dead set against.

 

[Habs13]

bonus money would certainly help new teams, but where would they find players that would make them even slightly competitive, and what to do with 70m teams that are about to be relegated? the most convenient way would be to transfer whole chicago blackhawks team to providence bruins, but what's the point then?

I think teams would adapt and there are players available that are either not quite good enough for top level NHL teams and players that are slowing down and not at an NHL level anyway. I think this system would eliminate some of the crazy contracts that currently exist.

Let's use our Habs as an example.

For YEARS the Habs have been a bubble team (prior to the rebuild) yet we have some terrible contracts on several of our guys. Gallagher is a prime example. In the future if this system was implemented, you wouldn't see long contracts like that. You'd see a lot shorter term deals where if a team goes down, you wouldn't have to pay $6.5 million bucks to a Gallagher (or the $9m it will soon be).

So, your team goes down - and most teams that would face relegation would have the idea that they may face that reality early on, and sign one-year deals. Once down, you sign a guy like Galchenyuk that isn't an NHL level player anymore, to a one year deal. Thus extending the length of certain players careers and giving chances to guys on the cusp to prove themselves worthy. Good news for guys like White, Wideman and Pearson. Or players that become AHL vets. Leave the AHL as a development league and the veterans can play NHL tier 2.