HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Rapala]

What could be done is to have a lesser margin between the last team odds and the other. With 32 teams you'll always have 5-6 teams who would realistically need some major help. The current odds are :

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]25.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Make it less drastic so that scorched earth tanking is slightly less appealing :

15
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4


Teams that just miss should not have access to the 1st overall. Many good teams have missed by a few points once over the years because of injuries.

I like the idea but we'd get more tanking with the tweeners or bubble teams like we saw last season with the Bedard Sweepstakes.
There were 3 or 4 teams who pulled their tent pegs early IMO without making a concerted effort to make the playoffs.
Wouldn't the better odds at top prize actually encourage more of this?

 

[Rapala]

If we were to do anything about tanking, I'd rather run the draft lottery prior to the season

Say spot 7 wins the lottery, then there's no real reason for a team to bottom out. It'd also be very difficult to manipulate where you finish the standings at that spot.

Downfall is if spot 1 gets it, then you'll see ultra tanking.

Actually I like it
What if you did a random draw for the top 10 to pre determine which finishing position gets which pick.
Only to be revealed at season's end.

Would the fans trust something like this

 

[LaP]

I like the idea but we'd get more tanking with the tweeners or bubble teams like we saw last season with the Bedard Sweepstakes.
There were 3 or 4 teams who pulled their tent pegs early IMO without making a concerted effort to make the playoffs.
Wouldn't the better odds at top prize actually encourage more of this?

You could decrease the margin more than i did. Make it a .5% difference. You could make it bottom 12 instead of 10. With 32 teams bottom 12 would be fine.

With odds like that it would almost be pointless to tank outside of getting extra picks for your over the hill vets which is more good assets management than tanking.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]

12​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

10,5​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

10​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

9,5​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

9​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

8,5​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

8​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

7,5​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

7​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

6,5​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

6​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

5,5​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[billy piton]

I'm from England and my football team has been feeding top teams forever. I'm still a fan some 45 years later.

wow, that's a quite healthy dose of masochism

 

[CDN24]

I'm really not into the idea of a play-in round. What is the point of having an 82 game season if you are then going to have a playoff for the playoffs. Seems silly.

NHl used the playin round in the late 70's from 74-75 through 78-79. There were 18 teams, top 4 got byes. 5-12 played a best 2 out of 3 play in round.

It worked well for the has as they got a bye in those 5 years and won the cup in 4 of the 5.

with 32 teams it may be time to bring it back

 

[Habs]

they should take the bottom 10, and reward wins for lottery points the final 20 games. No incentive to tank. If you are bottom three, you can still fall 3 points, but if you are 10th you have a chance at #1. If the pt difference is 6 or less between the bottom 3 teams, they should do count the regular season wins/losses between them and re-rank accordingly.

A playoffs for the top 3 picks, no lame tanking and much more interest for the fans with a desire left to win. Suddenly a Montreal / Arizona game late in the season is a playoff game that matters for draft ranking etc.

 

[Lockin17]

I've hear a good ideal.

This only applies to the last 12 teams after the trade deadline.

Whoever as the best % of winning after that date gets the better spot in the Draft.
So at least we get a great 20 last game.
Like winning we'll get you the better draft spot ..

 

[Rapala]

I'm really not into the idea of a play-in round. What is the point of having an 82 game season if you are then going to have a playoff for the playoffs. Seems silly.

I don't know about that. Bring back the 1v8 and expand the post season.
Getting a week off by pushing to make top 6 in each conference seems like a fantastic incentive to me.
The 16 win formula is purported to be the hardest trophy to win in all of Pro Sports after all.

I just feel there is no real incentive to push for the top anymore.
Having the option to rest players during that week instead of the regular season while you push for the best possible match-up.

Home ice advantage doesn't seem to be what it once was and winning the league outright means nothing.

 

[Habs13]

All of this points system after the trade deadline thing has a major flaw - what about teams that sell their players at the deadline to contenders or teams on the cusp of making a playoff push? This draft system punishes teams for making those trades, because most of the time, those teams become weaker after trading players to contenders... so now you've killed that too. No more deadline trades.

 

[teamfirst]

I get your frustration. You can't fully enjoy a win if the goal is to finish lower, but why watch in the first place if you're hoping for a loss? It sucks.

That's the thing for me, i cannot not watch, maybe it will come to that if we ever become the new Sabres, take the last game as example i caught myself being kind of happy when the Leafs scored their 3rd goal, after the game i was like......why the f*** i'm i watching that.

Back in 1977 Habs loss only 8 games in the season and i was mad for each one of them , now.....oh well

However, the answer isn't to micromanage the rules. IMO the only way out of this rut is good management. Rebuilding worked well for Tampa, Colorado, Dallas, and appears to be working for Detroit and Philadelphia. Buffalo is a sad exception. Sometimes there's no way around the pain.

I'm afraid you're right , it seems that the new generation of management is ready to do everything the rules permit even make your team worst for a certain time to try to build it better in the future.

This thinking is so far from what i was taught competing in sports is

 

[Tabarouette]

That's the thing for me, i cannot not watch, maybe it will come to that if we ever become the new Sabres, take the last game as example i caught myself being kind of happy when the Leafs scored their 3rd goal, after the game i was like......why the f*** i'm i watching that.

Back in 1977 Habs loss only 8 games in the season and i was mad for each one of them , now.....oh well



I'm afraid you're right , it seems that the new generation of management is ready to do everything the rules permit even make your team worst for a certain time to try to build it better in the future.

This thinking is so far from what i was taught competing in sports is

I mean, you also have to understand that our realities are different then. You've seen the glory days and you miss those that's fine, but also that's enviable if you ask me

You have to understand that the league (and the sport) has changed a whole lot. Most of us don't know anything else, and most of us have never seen the canadiens do anything worth a damn so, the idea of being good in the future for once by simply accepting to being bad right now is pretty interesting

the highlight of my entire 34 years on earth was the fake cup final and the Halak's miraculous run, i'm drier than a box of saltine crackers my dude

 

[teamfirst]

Make the draft lottery odds even for teams between 1-10 yeah I said it

Very close to my proposal, see....we can agree

 

[HuGort]

Pittsburgh will probably pass us. Wheels are falling off there.

Wonder if they give their pick to San Jose and keep their '25 pick?

 

[teamfirst]

I mean, you also have to understand that our realities are different then. You've seen the glory days and you miss those that's fine, but also that's enviable if you ask me

You have to understand that the league (and the sport) has changed a whole lot. Most of us don't know anything else, and most of us have never seen the canadiens do anything worth a damn so, the idea of being good in the future for once by simply accepting to being bad right now is pretty interesting

the highlight of my entire 34 years on earth was the fake cup final and the Halak's miraculous run, i'm drier than a box of saltine crackers my dude

Oh i understand, i'm not judging, and i only hope we're not gonna have like 6-7 years of non-playoffs hockey, i can take losing a playoff round but not even be in the playoffs is really hard

 

[CHwest]

There are 32 or 34 I don't even know anymore, I would guess there are about a dozen or so really competent GM's, so for most teams a Cup is but a pipe dream. I know there are outliers but the fastest way to the cup is being terrible for a while plus a good does of luck.

 

[Lshap]

I still believe the best way to deal with the whole tanking situation is to just go with a draft wheel. No point to tank because where you pick was already pre-determined, everybody gets a top-5 pick every 6ish years so every team has a steady stream of top talent to build around, teams will still sell at the deadline when they are out of it but now contending teams have real futures to sell instead of the late 1sts that rarely actually help rebuilding teams.

This would be interesting, but keep in mind if the draft order is randomized, TDL draft picks suddenly become much more AND much LESS valuable. Montreal's 1st round pick now has no more value than Florida's, since the order comes down to blind luck. Bottom teams might do just as well selling their 1st round picks as they would acquiring them. It would completely transform the TDL in both a good and bad way.

 

[Nicko999]

Pittsburgh will probably pass us. Wheels are falling off there.

Wonder if they give their pick to San Jose and keep their '25 pick?

They don't have a choice. Will keep their pick since it's top 10. San Jose will have their 2025 unprotected 1st.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Back when there was only 21 teams pretty much every teams were making the playoffs and it was the same. The regular season was also boring as 95% of the teams were 100% sure to make the playoffs before the season even start.

That's a myth. I've watched hockey in the 80's and 90's and I don't remember ever hearing someone complain that the regular season was boring because too many teams were making the playoffs.

There were still a lot of competition to follow. Fighting to get the ice advantage, fighting to finish higher and face a bottom feeder. And more rivalries because there was less team.

The idea that the teams stop competing once they have a playoff spot is just untrue.

What is much more true IMO : Having 8-10 eliminated early in January or February and not having a single reason to compete is the recipe for boring hockey. Many fans are complaining about it and they are right!

 

[Runner77]

I'm sorry I though we were talking about the top teams picking their rivals in the post season.
Which I am not dead set against.

That’s gotta be the worst option. A team getting picked as an opponent in that scenario would go into a series with a ton of motivation.

« We want Florida! »

 

[Runner77]

What could be done is to have a lesser margin between the last team odds and the other. With 32 teams you'll always have 5-6 teams who would realistically need some major help. The current odds are :

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]25.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Make it less drastic so that scorched earth tanking is slightly less appealing :

15
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4


Teams that just miss should not have access to the 1st overall. Many good teams have missed by a few points once over the years because of injuries.

You gotta give something to teams ending up in no man’s land.

Say for teams ending 12-15, if they won the lottery, the max number of ranks they could move could be something like 4-5 spots but with lower odds than the 11th placed team.

 

[LaP]

You gotta give something to teams ending up in no man’s land.

Say for teams ending 12-15, if they won the lottery, the max number of ranks they could move could be something like 4-5 spots but with lower odds than the 11th placed team.

Well there's many improvement you could make to the current system but unlike some people i don't think a complete overhaul is needed. The system is flawed for sure but it's not necessarily a bad one it just needs improvement.

 

[teamfirst]

Sortie de zone, saison 5 Épisode 44 : Faut-il augmenter le nombre d’équipes en séries ?​

Publié à 17h20

Animation : Jérémie Rainville
Invités : Richard Labbé, Alexandre Pratt et Stéphane Waite



One of those guy's at LaPresse lurking HF habs for idea

 

[Rapala]

Sortie de zone, saison 5 Épisode 44 : Faut-il augmenter le nombre d’équipes en séries ?​

Publié à 17h20

Animation : Jérémie Rainville
Invités : Richard Labbé, Alexandre Pratt et Stéphane Waite



One of those guy's at LaPresse lurking HF habs for idea

A lot of fans think the playoff format is broken.
Even more fans think the draft format is broken.

This comes up every year as the post season approaches.
If I recall there were some rumblings about it at one of the Governor's meetings.
I don't think it ever became a serious discussion.

 

[HuGort]

They don't have a choice. Will keep their pick since it's top 10. San Jose will have their 2025 unprotected 1st.

Going to suck for Pens. Way they going that pick could be Hagens

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

That’s gotta be the worst option. A team getting picked as an opponent in that scenario would go into a series with a ton of motivation.

« We want Florida! »

Exactly. Apparently in the PWHL the first place team will get the choice of playing the 3rd or 4th place team. Ridiculous. The 3rd place team would be insulted if they picked them. The 4th place team might be too but at least they wouldn't be surprised. And how is it fair that if, for example, Montreal was 3rd or 4th and Poulin was gone for the season the 1st place team can choose them.