HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[Tabarouette]

Exactly

Purely a development year for everyone next year

Either it goes surprisingly well and we make the playoffs and it's an overall Pleasantly fun outcome for a building block year

Or we either still aren't ready to be a playoff team, or injuries, or it just doesn't go our way and we draft high again

(I kind of had the same mindset for this year going in actually, but the Dach injury obviously changed all that quickly), and we get another much needed top10 pick out if it

It's 'after' next year that if we dont start seeing some type of genuine positive results, THEN you start questioning if the 2 headed monster is still the right management team for this org.

This is what all the "pfff you guys are loyal zombies to every gm all the time, they can never do anything wrong ever, you guys are blind followers blah blah " people can't quite seem to understand , you have to give things like this more than just 2 measley years to brew..

Why do people think the NFL teams that fire the head coach every single year, can't ever seem to get out of the gutter..?

Expecting the rebuild to start producing 2 seasons from now is not a take that is uncommon on this board, but it's one that's going to hurt so many people in here it's not even funny

 

[Habs13]

A good team DGAF.
It lends a certain strategy IMO and I actually proposed this last year on this board.
Take out your main rival round one when you are healthy and full of energy could be a strategic option.
Certain teams have other teams numbers and know it.
Or wait until they are a bit toasted another.

That would certainly create rivalry's and I'm all for that!

 

[Sorinth]

That would be a good system if all drafts would be born equal. But if you get your top 5 in a AG and Yakupov draft then suck to be you you'll have to wait another 5 years for a real top 5 pick.

Or you just draft Forsberg who was ranked 4th OA that year by McKenzie.

 

[Mrb1p]

Quicker turnaround is probably the best way to stop all that.

Limit contract years, relative cap on taxes paid, older draft age /exceptionals, a system that would encourage talent acquisition.

The system is broken, a rebuild shouldnt take 10 years, teams shouldnt get stuck in cap hell once theyve won, teams shouldnt be forced to overpay in years to acquire talent, teams shouldnt be stuck in limbo because they dont want to tank.

 

[Rapala]

Or you just draft Forsberg who was ranked 4th OA that year by McKenzie.

There is that whole part of the argument that has to be considered.
The whole lottery thing gets brought up more when "generational" talent is in play.

For example most of us think there will be a huge drop-off in last year's crop after 3or 4.
The thing is we don't know that yet.

 

[Heffyhoof]

Let me get back up on my soapbox to keep crying about the same thing I cry about a lot. TOO MANY TEAMS. Tanking is so cancerous to the game because there's now anywhere from 8-12 teams a season totally s**ting the bed. Even if your team is utterly hopeless garbage, your team might never see the high enough picks in the proper years because of all the competition to be sh*t.

The fact Buttman wants to add more teams instead of subtracting is a travesty because so many of the issues in today's game can be directly linked to the ridiculous oversaturation.

Edit: Despite what some Buttman lovers might say, having Arizona be a literal net negative both financially and in terms of actual on ice entertainment for over a decade is not worth 'inspiring a player like Matthews to play the game.'

 

[Tabarouette]

Quicker turnaround is probably the best way to stop all that.

Limit contract years, relative cap on taxes paid, older draft age /exceptionals, a system that would encourage talent acquisition.

The system is broken, a rebuild shouldnt take 10 years, teams shouldnt get stuck in cap hell once theyve won, teams shouldnt be forced to overpay in years to acquire talent, teams shouldnt be stuck in limbo because they dont want to tank.

not only that but, the stinky teams at the bottom all have enough cap room for like... 1 good player at most? Only Chicago has 10M and that's one superstar, the rest could afford 1 good player at most

that's really messed up, your bottom feeders are also stuck

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I'm really not into the idea of a play-in round. What is the point of having an 82 game season if you are then going to have a playoff for the playoffs. Seems silly.

Leave it as is. 16 teams. That's it.

 

[Rapala]

Let me get back up on my soapbox to keep crying about the same thing I cry about a lot. TOO MANY TEAMS. Tanking is so cancerous to the game because there's now anywhere from 8-12 teams a season totally s**ting the bed. Even if your team is utterly hopeless garbage, your team might never see the high enough picks in the proper years because of all the competition to be sh*t.

The fact Buttman wants to add more teams instead of subtracting is a travesty because so many of the issues in today's game can be directly linked to the ridiculous oversaturation.

Edit: Despite what some Buttman lovers might say, having Arizona be a literal net negative both financially and in terms of actual on ice entertainment for over a decade is not worth 'inspiring a player like Matthews to play the game.'

There aren't very many realistic ways to combat this.
I proposed one earlier and have yet to see a better solution in terms of having to play to win games.

 

[Tabarouette]

There aren't very many realistic ways to combat this.
I proposed one earlier and have yet to see a better solution in terms of having to play to win games.

let's start by folding all teams that currently play in a high school arena

 

[LaP]

Let me get back up on my soapbox to keep crying about the same thing I cry about a lot. TOO MANY TEAMS. Tanking is so cancerous to the game because there's now anywhere from 8-12 teams a season totally s**ting the bed. Even if your team is utterly hopeless garbage, your team might never see the high enough picks in the proper years because of all the competition to be sh*t.

The fact Buttman wants to add more teams instead of subtracting is a travesty because so many of the issues in today's game can be directly linked to the ridiculous oversaturation.

Edit: Despite what some Buttman lovers might say, having Arizona be a literal net negative both financially and in terms of actual on ice entertainment for over a decade is not worth 'inspiring a player like Matthews to play the game.'

That's not the problem and the 80ies with 21 teams where Hartford and Quebec would tank every years is a good proof of that. The NHL is in the best shape it has ever been. Is there things to fix? yeah. But less teams would not fix **** outside of making the regular season useless again. Moving teams in bad market would certainly help though.

 

[Heffyhoof]

There aren't very many realistic ways to combat this.
I proposed one earlier and have yet to see a better solution in terms of having to play to win games.

The problem with many problems, the actual solution is too hard so bandaid solutions need to suffice. The very idea of needing to entice nearly half the league to try to play to win is so absurd that it would never fly for a newly introduced sport/league.

Teams have to pull a mega tank and ruin the competitive nature of the regular season because, all things being equal, you're statistically winning 1 Cup every 32 years now.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Make the draft lottery odds even for teams between 1-10 yeah I said it

 

[Habs13]

Make the draft lottery odds even for teams between 1-10 yeah I said it

Or a 32 team equal lotto!

 

[billy piton]

I think teams would adapt and there are players available that are either not quite good enough for top level NHL teams and players that are slowing down and not at an NHL level anyway. I think this system would eliminate some of the crazy contracts that currently exist.

Let's use our Habs as an example.

For YEARS the Habs have been a bubble team (prior to the rebuild) yet we have some terrible contracts on several of our guys. Gallagher is a prime example. In the future if this system was implemented, you wouldn't see long contracts like that. You'd see a lot shorter term deals where if a team goes down, you wouldn't have to pay $6.5 million bucks to a Gallagher (or the $9m it will soon be).

So, your team goes down - and most teams that would face relegation would have the idea that they may face that reality early on, and sign one-year deals. Once down, you sign a guy like Galchenyuk that isn't an NHL level player anymore, to a one year deal. Thus extending the length of certain players careers and giving chances to guys on the cusp to prove themselves worthy. Good news for guys like White, Wideman and Pearson. Or players that become AHL vets. Leave the AHL as a development league and the veterans can play NHL tier 2.

the habs would be a bubble team forever, since they would pay as much money to medicore veteran players just to stay away from relegation. unless geoff molson pours money like a crazy oligarch and build a superteam. suzuki and caufield wouldn't sign long term extensions because they wouldn't want to play in the ahl. im from croatia and i cant stress enough how awful is watching every single young player goes to the highest bidder after six months or one year of good performance. that's why i quit following football.

 

[Gravity]

why would you punish tanking? it's just natural way to replenish stocks when your older generation of players is finished. it's already enough painful for both fans and owners of tanking teams. and even then there is no guarantee that tanking will get you a cup, let alone dynasty.

Because that's the premise of this thread.....

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Or a 32 team equal lotto!

Haha crazy , I cut it a 10 because I would be cheesed if teams that just missed the wild card slot had a chance at the top 3 haha

 

[Heffyhoof]

Haha crazy , I cut it a 10 because I would be cheesed if teams that just missed the wild card slot had a chance at the top 3 haha

Dallas and Heiskanen say hi

 

[LaP]

Make the draft lottery odds even for teams between 1-10 yeah I said it

What could be done is to have a lesser margin between the last team odds and the other. With 32 teams you'll always have 5-6 teams who would realistically need some major help. The current odds are :

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]25.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Make it less drastic so that scorched earth tanking is slightly less appealing :

15
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4

Haha crazy , I cut it a 10 because I would be cheesed if teams that just missed the wild card slot had a chance at the top 3 haha

Teams that just miss should not have access to the 1st overall. Many good teams have missed by a few points once over the years because of injuries.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

What could be done is to have a lesser margin between the last team odds and the other. With 32 teams you'll always have 5-6 teams who would realistically need some major help. The current odds are :

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]25.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Make it less drastic so that scorched earth tanking is slightly less appealing :

15
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4


Teams that just miss you not have access to the 1st overall. Many good teams have missed by a few points over the years because of injuries.

Yes the odds are too high for the last place team imo

 

[Gains]

In 2020, I was rooting for us to lose the play-in round because I wanted a shot at Lafreniere. Turned out that that series was important in us getting the experience needed to go to the finals in SCF (where anything can happen). Coupled with the fact and Lafreniere is pacing for 50 points and Guhle is looking like a future top-pair D-man, I learned to stop rooting for losses.

The people rooting for us to lose want to become the next Sabres.

 

[billy piton]

Quicker turnaround is probably the best way to stop all that.

Limit contract years, relative cap on taxes paid, older draft age /exceptionals, a system that would encourage talent acquisition.

The system is broken, a rebuild shouldnt take 10 years, teams shouldnt get stuck in cap hell once theyve won, teams shouldnt be forced to overpay in years to acquire talent, teams shouldnt be stuck in limbo because they dont want to tank.

in 32 team league, you'll always have teams that are in perpetual limbo or perpetual rebuild. if top teams don't get stuck in cap hell, many more teams would be stucked in a limbo. if worst teams don't draft on top, the rebuilds would last even longer. you can't have it both ways. 32 teams, only one cup. there is not even an fa cup or a league cup

 

[WeThreeKings]

If we were to do anything about tanking, I'd rather run the draft lottery prior to the season

Say spot 7 wins the lottery, then there's no real reason for a team to bottom out. It'd also be very difficult to manipulate where you finish the standings at that spot.

Downfall is if spot 1 gets it, then you'll see ultra tanking.

 

[Habs13]

the habs would be a bubble team forever, since they would pay as much money to medicore veteran players just to stay away from relegation. unless geoff molson pours money like a crazy oligarch and build a superteam. suzuki and caufield wouldn't sign long term extensions because they wouldn't want to play in the ahl. im from croatia and i cant stress enough how awful is watching every single young player goes to the highest bidder after six months or one year of good performance. that's why i quit following football.

I'm from England and my football team has been feeding top teams forever. I'm still a fan some 45 years later.

Haha crazy , I cut it a 10 because I would be cheesed if teams that just missed the wild card slot had a chance at the top 3 haha

No point tanking if the odds don't change at all

 

[Tabarouette]

If we were to do anything about tanking, I'd rather run the draft lottery prior to the season

Say spot 7 wins the lottery, then there's no real reason for a team to bottom out. It'd also be very difficult to manipulate where you finish the standings at that spot.

Downfall is if spot 1 gets it, then you'll see ultra tanking.

oh yeah in my list I forgot this one which is also one that I really like

lottery for which *position* gets first pick and then the bottom feeders all have to aim for that position, which is kind of chaotic and I like it