HF Habs: The official 2023-2024 tank thread

[teamfirst]

It's not perfect, but imagine how fun it would be to cheer for the Habs during a rebuild with this system.

Not bad, better then what we have with the NHL now anyway

 

[LaP]

It's not perfect, but imagine how fun it would be to cheer for the Habs during a rebuild with this system.

It's not only not perfect it's not better at all. The sooner you are mathematically eliminated the better. Most teams are mathematically eliminated in the last week and will play only 3-4 games after that. So it encourages scorched earth tanking even more than it is now.

Not bad, better then what we have with the NHL now anyway

Not at all imo.

 

[billy piton]

Then how do you suggest punishing tanking?

why would you punish tanking? it's just natural way to replenish stocks when your older generation of players is finished. it's already enough painful for both fans and owners of tanking teams. and even then there is no guarantee that tanking will get you a cup, let alone dynasty.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Look at Pittsburgh and all the luck they had, year after year after year. Crosby. Malkin. Letang, Fleury. Staal.


Buffalo is a badly managed team and Arizona shouldn't even be in the NHL.

Crosby was legitimately luck, that was a wide open draft lottery from the lost season. Letang was a 3rd round pick. Other than that, tanking was a legitimate strategy back then without a draft lottery. Although I think they could have won without Fleury and they'd probably be better off with Toews or Backstrom instead of Staal.

 

[teamfirst]

For the draft
Two tiers of 8 teams play single game runoffs for better odds.
8v7 6v5 4v3 2v1 with two more rounds same format

Anything that would stop me of wishing for my team to lose is good for me

I still believe the bottom teams should get an advantage of some sort.
This would generate a whole heck of a lot more interest and revenue IMO.

Agree

 

[Lshap]

Chicago only nailed it if the lottery was fixed. They finished 3rd. They should not have been able to get Bedard.

Not sure what you mean. A lottery means the 1OA isn't necessarily going to the last-place team. That's exactly what happened last year. Why would that be fixed?

 

[Rapala]

I look forward to next year where I don't care about where we finish and just hope for wins even though we won't make the playoffs.

I was hoping that was this year but that was based on my (TTTY) plan. TotalTankTwoYear
The culture building being this season.

 

[Captain Mountain]

It's not only not perfect it's not better at all. The sooner you are mathematically eliminated the better. Most teams are mathematically eliminated in the last week and will play only 3-4 games after that. So it encourages scorched earth tanking even more than it is now.


Not at all imo.

It depends how you calculate the start point, but that isn't really the case, because you still need to win games. It advantages teams that are really bad, but haven't scorched the earth.

 

[Habs13]

and what would let's say, chicago blackhawks and san jose sharks do if they get relegated to the ahl? they have commited around 70m in salaries for the next year and no way in hell that they will be able to pay them with ahl tv money and ahl attendance. they would just go bust. it just doesn't make sense and no sane owner will ever agree to that just to make competition between bad teams more interesting for some fans.

Again, using England as an example - the Premiership has 20 teams and there are 92 times in divisions that could play in the Premiership. So if it works there... why not here?

If Chicago went down, the arena wouldn't magically shrink. They wouldn't have to go play in a 5000 seat arena like the Coyotes already do. No. They would still have tickets to sell to the same fans only, in theory, they should then be one of the better teams that should win their way back up to the top tier.

So, they go from absolute shit and finish last, to games that they start winning and are fun for fans to watch again and possibly earn promotion back up again. Also - it doesn't have to be the AHL. It could be say twelve new expansion teams (no expansion draft) that start at tier 2. Quebec comes back, Hartford too lets say. Now there's a chance the Nordiques make it back to the NHL.

Sounds great to me.

 

[billy piton]

Not sure what you mean. A lottery means the 1OA isn't necessarily going to the last-place team. That's exactly what happened last year. Why would that be fixed?

that's why chicago didn't "nailed it". they were just lucky.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Not sure what you mean. A lottery means the 1OA isn't necessarily going to the last-place team. That's exactly what happened last year. Why would that be fixed?

The point is that Chicago didn't nail the scorched earth rebuild since they didn't finish with the best draft odds. And the only way to say that they nailed it (instead of getting lucky) is if they "fixed" the result of the draft lottery.

 

[Rapala]

Anything that would stop me of wishing for my team to lose is good for me



Agree

Having to win to get better odds makes sense to me.
Teams won't be able to totally decimate themselves for better draft picks anymore.
NHLPA sign-off and an earlier start to the season. Make it happen.

 

[LaP]

Anything that would stop me of wishing for my team to lose is good for me



Agree

But why would you give the better odds to the better non playoffs team? I don't get it. It makes sure bottom teams stay bottom ad vitam æternam. Nobody will sign with a bottom team. And if the bottom team has the worse odds of all eliminated teams then it will stay bottom forever. The few hits they'll get drafting 16th they'll lose them as soon as they'll be UFA.

Vegas is barely in the playoffs. If they were in the east they might actually miss them. Do you want to give them the better odds at a first overall? TB might actually miss the playoffs this year. To you want to give them the better odds at a 1st overall?

 

[teamfirst]

Having to win to get better odds makes sense to me.
Teams won't be able to totally decimate themselves for better draft picks anymore.
NHLPA sign-off and an earlier start to the season. Make it happen.

Where do i vote to name you the Buttman replacement

 

[LaP]

It depends how you calculate the start point, but that isn't really the case, because you still need to win games. It advantages teams that are really bad, but haven't scorched the earth.

If you have 10 games and the other teams have 4 you'll beat them more often that not.

You just need to be 3-7 to beat a team begin 2-2

 

[Team_Spirit]

Buffalo is a badly managed team and Arizona shouldn't even be in the NHL.

They tanked and succeeded. The lottery did it's job not guaranteeing the 1st overall to the worst team.

Avs were more than happy with Makar at 4 and Rantanen at 10, maybe they should have sold off Landeskog to tank harder?

 

[Rapala]

Where do i vote to name you the Buttman replacement

No Thank You the American teams would hate me.

 

[teamfirst]

But why would you give the better odds to the better non playoffs team? I don't get it. It makes sure bottom teams stay bottom ad vitam æternam. Nobody will sign with a bottom team. And if the bottom team has the worse odds of all eliminated teams then it will stay bottom forever. The few hits they'll get drafting 16th they'll lose them as soon as they'll be UFA.

Vegas is barely in the playoffs. If they were in the east they might actually miss them. Do you want to give them the better odds at a first overall? TB might actually miss the playoffs this year. To you want to give them the better odds at a 1st overall?

Anything that stop me of wishing for a loss, give me that solution and i vote for you

 

[Habs13]

They tanked and succeeded. The lottery did it's job not guaranteeing the 1st overall to the worst team.

Avs were more than happy with Makar at 4 and Rantanen at 10, maybe they should have sold off Landeskog to tank harder?

I'm not pro tank - I think you have the wrong idea.

 

[Captain Mountain]

If you have 10 games and the other teams have 4 you'll beat them more often that not.

You just need to be 3-7 to beat a team begin 2-2

That's part of the point. You still want bad teams to get earlier picks. But you're not cheering for your team to lose. And teams that go real scorched earth don't have a way to turn it on vs teams that try to win.

 

[Rapala]

I'm actually curious are there people out there who are satisfied with the current format.

 

[Yep]

Roll back to a 80 games regular season. First 3 of each division get a a bye (12 teams). 12 wildcard teams for the 4 remaining spots (2 per conference). The spots are disputed in each conference like this through a 2 games series where wins and goal diffrential are the tie-breaker. Wild card teams matchup would be like this (where W1 is the wild card team with the most regular season points) :

WC1 vs WC6
WC2 vs WC5
WC3 vs WC4

As for the draft, I really like the system the PWHL si implementing this year.

 

[Adriatic]

The odds should just be reversed. Make the teams finishing 9-10-11 have better lottery odds than the ones finishing last. This way at least the teams not making the playoffs will have something to play for and the absolute mediocre franchises won't be rewarded.

 

[Tabarouette]

There's a couple of interesting formats that have been thrown around over the years

• The Gold Plan: Have teams start accumulating points the moment they're mathematically eliminated and whoever has the most gets the 1st overall.
  • This one is wild because it *kinda* promotes intentional ultra tanking early on to get to that point ASAP, and then stacking up at the deadline?
• Fixed 1st overalls for 32 years, everyone gets a year and that's when you'll get a 1st overall, tough luck for who gets the one 32 years from today (that's probably us)
• Reversed odds, pretty straight forward, but it might keep bottom feeders as bottom feeders forever because they'd get stuck in a loop
• Have a tournament with eliminated teams to determine the draft positions. This is very cool to me on paper but then you're asking players to play hard to... get someone who might replace them?
• just go back to whoever stinks the most gets the 1st overall that way there's no f***ery and you know what you're in for, since the lottery is a failed experiment anyway and tanking has never been more popular

Ultimately idk if you can fix tanking. It depends on the sport, it depends on a lot of things, but in hockey it seems pretty clear that refusing to tank just puts you in a "forever mediocre" limbo that simply isn't worth it. I know we love to pretend we could do better than GMs in here but ultimately, they have teams around them with the numbers to back that up. Otherwise we wouldn't have like 8 teams actively and openly tanking. Maybe the problem runs deeper, maybe there's a better way to do parity in the league, maybe the cap can change, they can think outside the box on that one

 

[Lshap]

I hate not being happy after a win or a loss for my team and i think-hope the NHL should-would do something about it, here's a couple of idea i got on what they could do.

First one is,

12 teams per conf in the playoffs, first 2 teams in each division get a by to the second round waiting 1 week for the other 8 teams who would play a best of 5 series in 7 days.
8 teams not making the playoffs are in a lottery with all equal odds for the first overall pick, the winning team has to wait another 7 years to be eligible of winning it again.

Second one,

If they want to keep the same playoffs format meaning only 16 teams make the playoffs, then atleast change the lottery rules,
make all the non-playoffs team have the same odds of winning the first overall pick and the winner has to wait another 15 years to be eligible of winning again.

I get your frustration. You can't fully enjoy a win if the goal is to finish lower, but why watch in the first place if you're hoping for a loss? It sucks.

However, the answer isn't to micromanage the rules. IMO the only way out of this rut is good management. Rebuilding worked well for Tampa, Colorado, Dallas, and appears to be working for Detroit and Philadelphia. Buffalo is a sad exception. Sometimes there's no way around the pain.