Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[FlyguyOX]

Yessirrr lfg.

 

[sneakytitz]

Then I guess that means that if John Bardis is involved, he's involved with either the 3rd group OR Anson's. Can't see him not leveraging The Cooler into a practice facility if he is involved with Krause's group.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Then I guess that means that if John Bardis is involved, he's involved with either the 3rd group OR Anson's. Can't see him not leveraging The Cooler into a practice facility if he is involved with Krause's group.

Correct

 

[dj4aces]

Then I guess that means that if John Bardis is involved, he's involved with either the 3rd group OR Anson's. Can't see him not leveraging The Cooler into a practice facility if he is involved with Krause's group.

The issue I see with The Cooler, in its current state, is it'll need to be rebuilt or retrofit to meet NHL standards. Additionaslly, Atlanta being a new/returning market (all depends on perspective), I think the league and players alike will want to see brand new facilities, not something dredged up from the past.

Best thing would be for Bardis to keep The Cooler as a community rink, and build an actual NHL practice facility for whatever group he might be a part of, if said group wins the bid.

 

[nhlfan79]

The issue I see with The Cooler, in its current state, is it'll need to be rebuilt or retrofit to meet NHL standards. Additionaslly, Atlanta being a new/returning market (all depends on perspective), I think the league and players alike will want to see brand new facilities, not something dredged up from the past.

Best thing would be for Bardis to keep The Cooler as a community rink, and build an actual NHL practice facility for whatever group he might be a part of, if said group wins the bid.

No question. The place currently is a dump, even after recently rebuilding the red rink. Splitting the space with a separate adventure park isn't helping the ice quality. It's almost as if they're running it just well enough to get by, while they wait for another shoe to drop.

 

[aqib]

The market of Atlanta has never "failed." The Flames owner was literally going bankrupt in the late 1970s for non-hockey-related (commercial real estate) reasons and received a record offer of double fair market value from Canada despite local buyers willing and ready to take the team over. The Thrashers ownership group intentionally and systematically dismantled the franchise because they affirmatively wanted them to relocate from the very moment they acquired the team in a package deal, just to eliminate market competition for the Hawks, the only team they really wanted. In both instances, there was zero that the general public could have done about it. All of this information is fully laid out across several thousand posts here.

Atlanta is (and will be) as good of a hockey market as any other non-traditional major American city. If Atlanta 3.0 is done right, it'll be on par with Dallas or Tampa or Washington, DC. It will blow away Nashville, Raleigh, and south Florida.

We can debate the Thrashers situation (which we have).

But the Flames were so long ago they are about as relevant as the 1920 Quebec Bulldogs or 1925 Hamilton Tigers.

 

[FlyguyOX]

The proposed locations for Krause practice facilities at the polo fields would be very close to the smaller community rink in Cumming The Ice Complex.

I was there a couple weeks back and was surprised how nice it was despite only having 1 sheet of ice.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

We can debate the Thrashers situation (which we have).

But the Flames were so long ago they are about as relevant as the 1920 Quebec Bulldogs or 1925 Hamilton Tigers.

Correct.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

To be honest, we're approaching the time passed period where even if you think the Thrashers failed as a result of fan issues (which I don't), you can't legitimately hold that as a knock against the market still.

It'll be 14 years in a few months since the Thrashers moved, and if expansion happens it'll assuredly be after the 15 year mark. That means it will basically have been as long, and likely longer, as the time between the end of the Jets1.0 and the start of the Jets 2.0 (1996 to 2011), and more than double the time between the end of the North Stars and start of the Wild (1993 to 2000). Heck, if it takes a few more years, it'll be as long or longer than the gap between the Rockies and the Avs, which absolutely feels like eras between when it was "only" 19 years.

Think of how much the world and all our lives have changed since then, and think of how much every market has changed in that time, too.

And harkening back to the Flames might as well be having a grievance over how much one of your caveman ancestors was wronged by a paleolothic neighbor.

 

[aqib]

To be honest, we're approaching the time passed period where even if you think the Thrashers failed as a result of fan issues (which I don't), you can't legitimately hold that as a knock against the market still.

It'll be 14 years in a few months since the Thrashers moved, and if expansion happens it'll assuredly be after the 15 year mark. That means it will basically have been as long, and likely longer, as the time between the end of the Jets1.0 and the start of the Jets 2.0 (1996 to 2011), and more than double the time between the end of the North Stars and start of the Wild (1993 to 2000). Heck, if it takes a few more years, it'll be as long or longer than the gap between the Rockies and the Avs, which absolutely feels like eras between when it was "only" 19 years.

Think of how much the world and all our lives have changed since then, and think of how much every market has changed in that time, too.

And harkening back to the Flames might as well be having a grievance over how much one of your caveman ancestors was wronged by a paleolothic neighbor.

The Jets left because of the arena and the NHL economic model at the time. The North Stars were due to the arena and the owner's wife wanting to move because of media attention related to him sexually harassing women staffers. There was nothing wrong with the market and that's why the Jets were originally going to go there 2 years later.

Yes the Flames are no longer relevant.

Now when it comes to the Thrashers, ok we know the ownership was a group of clowns, but what else has changed in Atlanta since then? I am not trying to start a fight. I ask because I don't know.

 

[TheLegend]

The Jets left because of the arena and the NHL economic model at the time. The North Stars were due to the arena and the owner's wife wanting to move because of media attention related to him sexually harassing women staffers. There was nothing wrong with the market and that's why the Jets were originally going to go there 2 years later.

Yes the Flames are no longer relevant.

Now when it comes to the Thrashers, ok we know the ownership was a group of clowns, but what else has changed in Atlanta since then? I am not trying to start a fight. I ask because I don't know.

I simple terms..... it gets down to how strong the ownership is (in both financial terms and commitment to promoting the sport in the market). But like you suggested... the economic model is going to have to fit.

Everything Atlanta is doing now is what Arizona is going to end up facing over the next few years if they were to try getting a team back.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Now when it comes to the Thrashers, ok we know the ownership was a group of clowns, but what else has changed in Atlanta since then? I am not trying to start a fight. I ask because I don't know.

We can get granular with demographics or corporate growth, but the easiest...

In the 14 years since, the Atlanta MSA has grown by 1.3 million people or 17%. That growth is about the same size as the Salt Lake City MSA.

 

[dj4aces]

Now when it comes to the Thrashers, ok we know the ownership was a group of clowns, but what else has changed in Atlanta since then? I am not trying to start a fight. I ask because I don't know.

I'll try to keep this short and sweet, because I don't want to write a novel, and I doubt anyone wants to read one.

1. Growth in the business community. Since 2011, we've had a number of Fortune 500 companies either establish, move regional headquarters, or move global headquarters to the Atlanta metro area.

2. Population growth. According to Wikipedia, the population of metro Atlanta at the 2010 census was 5.3 million. The 2023 estimate was at 6.3 million. This real number is likely higher than that, as even in the three years since moving from the southside to here in Duluth, I've watched this area continue to grow.

3. Rising popularity of the sport. Since the Thrashers left, youth participation has continued to grow despite the limited number of rinks in the area, and that area largely limited to north of the city. Additionally, the Glads have a broadcast deal with Peachtree TV.

While I've heard NHL viewership among longtime residents is up, I only have ancedotal evidence of this, and no real figures. Maybe someone else does. Since TNT acquired broadcast rights, I know four different TV subscribers who watch those games now who had no previous interest in the sport. But again, I can't stress enough, this is ancedotal and not indicative of anything in the at-large market. My knowing four different new viewers might not be much, but it's still pretty cool to see new fans embracing the game, especially at their ages (55+)

 

[GreenHornet]

Now when it comes to the Thrashers, ok we know the ownership was a group of clowns, but what else has changed in Atlanta since then? I am not trying to start a fight. I ask because I don't know.

For starters, there are about a million and a half more people in the metro area now, and the population is still growing. The projection is about about 6.7 million in 2030 and pushing 7 million by 2035. And as has been noted, they largest growth has been in the northern suburbs, where (as has also been noted) a vast majority of the fan base lives.

Atlanta Metro Area Population 1950-2025

Chart and table of population level and growth rate for the Atlanta metro area from 1950 to 2025. United Nations population projections are also included through the year 2035.

www.macrotrends.net

Now, I can't find any single source to best illustrate this, but I'm pretty sure the metro area's economy (Fortune 500 companies and small businesses alike) has also grown quite a bit over the past 14 years or so.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

And, on top of all that...Atlanta is known for differing sources of population growth! Ha!

 

[FlyguyOX]

I'll try to keep this short and sweet, because I don't want to write a novel, and I doubt anyone wants to read one.

1. Growth in the business community. Since 2011, we've had a number of Fortune 500 companies either establish, move regional headquarters, or move global headquarters to the Atlanta metro area.

2. Population growth. According to Wikipedia, the population of metro Atlanta at the 2010 census was 5.3 million. The 2023 estimate was at 6.3 million. This real number is likely higher than that, as even in the three years since moving from the southside to here in Duluth, I've watched this area continue to grow.

3. Rising popularity of the sport. Since the Thrashers left, youth participation has continued to grow despite the limited number of rinks in the area, and that area largely limited to north of the city. Additionally, the Glads have a broadcast deal with Peachtree TV.

While I've heard NHL viewership among longtime residents is up, I only have ancedotal evidence of this, and no real figures. Maybe someone else does. Since TNT acquired broadcast rights, I know four different TV subscribers who watch those games now who had no previous interest in the sport. But again, I can't stress enough, this is ancedotal and not indicative of anything in the at-large market. My knowing four different new viewers might not be much, but it's still pretty cool to see new fans embracing the game, especially at their ages (55+)

Good summary.

I can't imagine any way a team fails in the Krause group location/plan.

So, so much money in the area. So, so many of the world's biggest companies right nearby. So, so many affluent families nearby.

Ferraro mentioned when he was a player that they had a tough time figuring out where to live because the arena (downtown) was so far from the practice facility (NE corner of metro atlanta).

The new arena and practice facilities are planned to be very close by in and around some of the nicest areas and school districts in the state. Plus, multiple work/play retail locations in the immediate vicinity for guys families.

No chance of failure.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

No chance of failure.

There's absolutely a chance. If this Krause guy isn't fully vetted and ends up being cheap and living at the floor, it's going to be a tough sellout.

 

[GreenHornet]

There's absolutely a chance. If this Krause guy isn't fully vetted and ends up being cheap and living at the floor, it's going to be a tough sellout.

Same goes for the Carter group. However, despite the NHL's (and for that matter, the NBA's) abject failure to properly vet the Atlanta $pirit Septocluster™ back in the day, I'd like to think that they learned their lesson and have already gone over both groups with a fine tooth comb. I mean, it's been, what, almost two years since this whole process became public with tweets from John Buccigross and Kevin Weekes? And I'm sure the league has been in contact with both groups for considerably longer.