Confirmed with Link: The new coach of the Philadelphia Flyers is John Tortorella

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

blues, bruins, kings, ducks, hurricanes in 06 and none of them tanked either.

the base of all these teams was built with draft picks

What exactly is the Flyers foundation right now?

it doesn't have championship potential... I know that.


therefore, signing free agents and making trades isn't going to get you anywhere

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

30 year old Courtier,
Provorov
Sanheim
Hart
Farabee
TK


That's the foundation of this Flyer team. That's a good second tier of talent. But, if this is your foundation then no free agent or trade is going to push it to a championship level. And that's the bottom line for me.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Wow. Crypto is in the tank. That damn Hextall!!

 

[deadhead]

Wow. Crypto is in the tank. That damn Hextall!!

I knew Crypto was a fraud when it first emerged, 21st century Tulips.

 

[FlyerNutter]

30 year old Courtier,
Provorov
Sanheim
Hart
Farabee
TK


That's the foundation of this Flyer team. That's a good second tier of talent. But, if this is your foundation then no free agent or trade is going to push it to a championship level. And that's the bottom line for me.

That Couturier contract was such nonsense, by a desperate team.

Ridden hard, and put away wet. They learned nothing from the decade with Giroux - and are going to try to copy it with Coots.

He was ripe for a Duchene type trade, and a commitment to a deal rebuild.

 

[deadhead]

That Couturier contract was such nonsense, by a desperate team.

Ridden hard, and put away wet. They learned nothing from the decade with Giroux - and are going to try to copy it with Coots.

He was ripe for a Duchene type trade, and a commitment to a deal rebuild.

That contract was a bargain, $7.75M is a bargain today, and the cap will start escalating in 3 years so the out years won't be as painful as the last few flat cap seasons.

Even if you decide to rebuild, Couts is the sort of veteran anchor you want helping the kids grow.

 

[deadhead]

Great stuff on Torts from MDZ:

 

[tucson83]

the base of all these teams was built with draft picks

What exactly is the Flyers foundation right now?

it doesn't have championship potential... I know that.


therefore, signing free agents and making trades isn't going to get you anywhere

what is it dynasty or bust? is that why you want tank hard?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

30 year old Courtier,
Provorov
Sanheim
Hart
Farabee
TK


That's the foundation of this Flyer team. That's a good second tier of talent. But, if this is your foundation then no free agent or trade is going to push it to a championship level. And that's the bottom line for me.

And that lackluster foundation was the result of a five-year rebuild that prioritized drafting.

 

[deadhead]

what is it dynasty or bust? is that why you want tank hard?

No, it's a matter of short-term v long-term.

Torts will get the most of the large group of young players he's been handed, but he's not going to turn N Cates into a 1st line forward. But he may turn him into a solid middle six guy.

But it'll take a couple years to weed through this group and identify the keepers. No conceivable 30 year old FA is going to turn this team into a Cup contender - so you'll have committed yourself to a big contract for a player who'll be declining when the kids are ready to deliver.

So you can compete, but also make moves focused on 2-3 years from now, instead of chasing big names, use that cap room to add assets, target a RFA under 25, sign some reclamation projects and sent them to camp Torts for re-education, etc. Don't worry about winning this year, focus on asset accumulation, if you pick top ten, great, if Torts pulls off a miracle revival with the young players, great.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

what is it dynasty or bust? is that why you want tank hard?

Nobody is saying dynasty or bust, you're literally the only one who even mentioned that, what we want is some skill players, we want to be fun to watch, and to be competitive, that should be the bare minimum for any team, something that this team has failed to do for a decade, and will continue to fail as long as this leadership group is in charge, they've been here since the 90s and had 1 fluke cup appearance

 

[Tripod]

You wouldn't go to war with this lineup in a year or two?

Farabee - Couts - TK
LW TBN - C TBN - Brink/Foerster
Cates - Frost - Tippett/Allison
Laughton - Desnoyers - Wisdom
Lindblom, Lycksell, Laczynski

Provorov - RHD TBN
Sanheim - Attard
York - Risto
Andrae, Zamula

No

Also, if Fletch adds ANY vet F or D cor depth, are you prepared to criticize the move? Or will you just do the whole "it doesn't matter, won't play"?

 

[Beef Invictus]

And that lackluster foundation was the result of a five-year rebuild that prioritized drafting.

With horrible development. Drafting is only the first step. The team fails past that.

 

[Tripod]

And that lackluster foundation was the result of a five-year rebuild that prioritized drafting.

Maybe in the last 3.5 years Fletch could have added to it. After all, he traded a 1st, 2 2nds, Giroux, Jake, Etc... and added not one foundation piece. Not one.

 

[Embiid]

I am just going to get out in front of this hire ...

FIRE TORTORELLA!

 

[freakydallas13]

And that lackluster foundation was the result of a five-year rebuild that prioritized drafting.

Can't help but notice that in nearly 4 years of Chuck's management, the team has added zero foundational players, through the draft or otherwise.

 

[flyersnorth]

That Couturier contract was such nonsense, by a desperate team.

Ridden hard, and put away wet. They learned nothing from the decade with Giroux - and are going to try to copy it with Coots.

He was ripe for a Duchene type trade, and a commitment to a deal rebuild.

Can you imagine the Flyers jettisoning both Giroux and Couturier in the same season?

It's pretty clear from the Torts hire and from what ASF was saying on STG that a rebuild is just not happening. The organization is acutely aware that they are irrelevant and the brand is suffering. There is apparently an effort (or at least talk) of dialing back Gritty, because they recognize that a mascot should not be the most noteworthy thing about the franchise.

Their solution is to return to relevance now - sustainability be damned.

To me, that does not mean multiple bottom 5 finishes. It means flashy signings like Gaudreau, or major roster shakeups through trades, and likely middle of the pack finishes.

So may as well get nice and baked and enjoy the unsustainable rollercoaster of mediocrity!

 

[deadhead]

No

Also, if Fletch adds ANY vet F or D cor depth, are you prepared to criticize the move? Or will you just do the whole "it doesn't matter, won't play"?

He won't play under Torts unless he's better. Which is why I don't expect Fletcher to bring in any veterans other than to provide depth at LHV.

I mean everyone says the same about Torts, he has no favorites, he doesn't give a damn about your draft status, salary or whether the GM loves you. You play his way or don't play at all.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

And that lackluster foundation was the result of a five-year rebuild that prioritized drafting.

1. No, it wasnt caused by the strategy of drafting; it was caused by poor player development and poor drafting; and not selling certain players at the optimal time.

The actual strategy of drafting is not the cause of any of their problems.

2. So, if drafting players is a poor strategy, then how should a team acquire players? free agents? hoping you ripoff a few teams in trades? hope a few teams waive some good players?

3. The Flyer management led by Clarke, Holmgren and Fletcher agree with your anti-drafting stance, so you should be happy and excited about the future.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Maybe in the last 3.5 years Fletch could have added to it. After all, he traded a 1st, 2 2nds, Giroux, Jake, Etc... and added not one foundation piece. Not one.

He signed Thompson, that's his foundation piece, along with the mutt

 

[FlyguyOX]

Can't help but notice that in nearly 4 years of Chuck's management, the team has added zero foundational players, through the draft or otherwise.

Geez has it been that long? What a disaster he has been.

 

[Magua]

Maybe in the last 3.5 years Fletch could have added to it. After all, he traded a 1st, 2 2nds, Giroux, Jake, Etc... and added not one foundation piece. Not one.

Tippett and Ristolainen are foundational. Like the fall of Rome was foundational for the Dark Ages.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

what is it dynasty or bust? is that why you want tank hard?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

in the other post, you said I'm advocating tanking for 10 years... something I never said.

now, you're saying I only want a dynasty.... something I never said.


at this point, I'd take 1985-2012 (I started following in 85), which except for about 6 seasons I had hope for a cup (whether it was based on false hope or not, I still had hope).

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Maybe in the last 3.5 years Fletch could have added to it. After all, he traded a 1st, 2 2nds, Giroux, Jake, Etc... and added not one foundation piece. Not one.

Maybe those who are crowing for the Flyers to commit to a full draft-based rebuild could acknowledge that’s exactly what they did for a half-decade under Hextall and the results sucked.

Fans were mad at the Hayes signing, they don’t want any UFAs this summer, they want to go back to the failed Hextall plan of focusing almost entirely on the draft. With zero acknowledgment that you’re more likely to end up a terrible team for a long time than draft yourself into a powerhouse. And further destroy your attendance & fanbase in the process.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

1. No, it wasnt caused by the strategy of drafting; it was caused by poor player development and poor drafting; and not selling certain players at the optimal time.

The actual strategy of drafting is not the cause of any of their problems.

2. So, if drafting players is a poor strategy, then how should a team acquire players? free agents? hoping you ripoff a few teams in trades? hope a few teams waive some good players?

3. The Flyer management led by Clarke, Holmgren and Fletcher agree with your anti-drafting stance, so you should be happy and excited about the future.

I’m not anti-drafting. I’m anti not trying to compete. There’s nothing entertaining about putting all your eggs in the draft & praying you get lucky.