The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[Maplebeasts]

You can't be serious.

 

[DarkKnight]

Recall, when we he completed signing the top four to that absurd amount, everyone said the Dubas model had never been tried before. Perhaps we’re now realizing why not.

People can shit over Marner all they want, the fact is after the JT money and Dubas caving on Willie, then bending over to Matthews, his agent went hard, as he was supposed to do. There was no gun to Kyle’s head, nobody made him go after JT, nobody made him fly to Europe to appease RFA Nylander during an negotiation, ditto his agent in New York, nobody made him pay Matthews like a three time cup winning MVP, nobody made him pay Mitch before he did anything. All the bs excuses, the fact is he got raked over the coals by three RFA’s, on term, on up front money, on salary. The whole league knows it, no amount of repetitive rationalizing by the cult here changes it. The guy blew the contracts and we’ve been working around it ever since. Deal.

 

[TMLegend]

How is he a "good" GM if he can't get us into round #2, even after inheriting 16,34 and 88 and a 105 point team ??

He's not. He's proven himself to be a questionable judge of talent and continually undervalues the goaltending position. Hyman, Kadri, Brown, Kapanen, are all top 6 contributors around the league and we're lost as a consequence of the Tavares signing.

His tenure has been very much "Style, no substance" thus far.

 

[Mess]

A fourth line player making his salary was eventually going to end up being an unaffordable luxury for the team though.

It was one of the dominoes to fall due to the Tavares signing.

Maple Leafs trade veteran forward Matt Martin to Islanders

Matt Martin is going back to the New York Islanders.

The Toronto Maple Leafs have dealt the feisty forward to the Islanders, who drafted him in 2008. The Leafs get minor-league goalie Eamon McAdam in the deal.

The move comes two days after the Leafs beat out the Islanders for marquee free agent John Tavares, who had been with New York since starting his NHL career in 2009.

It marks the first trade between new Leafs GM Kyle Dubas and the man who preceded him in that role -- Islanders GM Lou Lamoriello.

Maple Leafs trade forward Martin to Islanders

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Had they stayed the course and hoarded draft picks they’d be in much better situation today.
Not winning a playoff round, having no cap space, not having a first round pick and going into a season with your fingers crossed is hard to fathom.

Hard to judge the draft pick route. Most teams with top 5 odds to win the cup every year will trade draft picks. No point singling out the Leafs.

Lou is a hero around here for a select crowd and he does it every year.

 

[Stephen]

Brown is they guy the Leafs should had tried their best to keep. He is much better than AJ and Kap who Dubas kept and ended up trading away.

I think Brown was terrible in his last year here but I'm sure a functional second line of Kadri, Brown and Kapanen would be preferable to having one John Tavares at this point.

Like what does John Tavares actually do around here? He's not a defensive specialist. He's not a true playmaker. Not a consistent goal scorer. Not a reliable puck retriever. Leads by example supposedly but doesn't pass the Jason Spezza eye test and is so monotonously uninspiring that the team fails to show up the first period of every game.

 

[rocketman588]

I don't have a dog in this race and I've been saying this stuff about Dubas for years. But just letting you know that Amadio played his junior days with the Battalion. He never played for the Greyhounds.

I misread what Soo team he played for lol. He's from there but you're correct played for the battalion

 

[Bluebear]

Sadly it might stop the masses that bitched about the last year of Marleau's contract which cost us a 1st to get rid of so Dubas could overpay, you know who.

That was stupid to pay a 1st for Marleau's contract, I thought at the time it would have been better to have traded Kadri for picks, "dumpster dived" for centres and kept Marleau. Ended up being right when they played like bums and didn't even make it past the play in for the playoffs anyway and lost the main asset in the Kadri trade to FA.

 

[Nineteen67]

Hard to judge the draft pick route. Most teams with top 5 odds to win the cup every year will trade draft picks. No point singling out the Leafs.

Lou is a hero around here for a select crowd and he does it every year.

Dubas would be a position to do that had he not gone off track in year one

 

[Metroid]

I’m sure the team has all the excuses lined up.

It’s a back to back, it’s on the road, Matthews still getting back in the game etc

Dont want to hear it any more. Get it done or get off the team

This game, in sorry but only the pens have excuses to use if they lose. I'm trying to not be negative but f-sakes they have to/need to are expected to win this game.

 

[Bluebear]

Hard to judge the draft pick route. Most teams with top 5 odds to win the cup every year will trade draft picks. No point singling out the Leafs.

Lou is a hero around here for a select crowd and he does it every year.

Trading the draft picks is about picking your moment. I didn't like it a couple times in previous years when I thought they weren't likely to be a serious threat in the playoffs, last year I didn't mind it with the Foligno trade, when it seemed like conference finals appearance was likely. This year it seems like the bums don't deserve any help at the cost of potentially retooling the team in the summer.

 

[Budz22]

I wonder what/how Mark Hunter would’ve done.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think Brown was terrible in his last year here but I'm sure a functional second line of Kadri, Brown and Kapanen would be preferable to having one John Tavares at this point.

Like what does John Tavares actually do around here? He's not a defensive specialist. He's not a true playmaker. Not a consistent goal scorer. Not a reliable puck retriever. Leads by example supposedly but doesn't pass the Jason Spezza eye test and is so monotonously uninspiring that the team fails to show up the first period of every game.

Brown was also on the 4th line a lot in his last year as Babs just can’t find room for him to play up. As Babs was playing a very fast game and AJ and Kap were faster skaters.

I don’t think JT is bringing any leadership at all. Also, he really has not been playing his style of game since coming to TO. Yes he got 47 goals his first season but he has not been playing his dominant style like he did as Islanders.

 

[Rogue Leader]

but didn't you hear, they got together at the cottage this summer and had a team building event.

surely that means the core believes in each other, no?

The core is like 5 people and I heard that they gathered in Muskoka!?

 

[Nineteen67]

I wonder what/how Mark Hunter would’ve done.

I think he would have tried to build a team based on the traditional model of winning the Cup.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I thought Kyle Dubas had a good rational trade deadline last year at the time, the expansion draft was a little bit too galaxy brain and his overall offseason was pretty decent, which looked okay in pre-season, like we were getting a good middle of the roster, sprinkle in a refreshed core and away we go... The trade deadline didn't work out and it looks like maybe half of his offseason might be duds.

Kind of see a pattern where you can see a good strategic thought process going into these moves but they're not panning out. So maybe the ideas are right but the pro scouting is not delivering good intel. Aka why were they ever worried about losing Kerfoot?

But overall I kind of empathize for a guy who is staking his career and vision on a core group that just doesn't really work.

Never read anything into preseason.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Recall, when we he completed signing the top four to that absurd amount, everyone said the Dubas model had never been tried before. Perhaps we’re now realizing why not.

People can shit over Marner all they want, the fact is after the JT money and Dubas caving on Willie, then bending over to Matthews, his agent went hard, as he was supposed to do. There was no gun to Kyle’s head, nobody made him go after JT, nobody made him fly to Europe to appease RFA Nylander during an negotiation, ditto his agent in New York, nobody made him pay Matthews like a three time cup winning MVP, nobody made him pay Mitch before he did anything. All the bs excuses, the fact is he got raked over the coals by three RFA’s, on term, on up front money, on salary. The whole league knows it, no amount of repetitive rationalizing by the cult here changes it. The guy blew the contracts and we’ve been working around it ever since. Deal.

Matthews is a first overall drafted pick. Dubas should have paid Matthews what he had to and locked him up for the maximum term. Matthews was the key building block. Instead he paid Matthews max term money but didn’t lock him up for the max term. So the money was fair the term was bad. If he was going to give him less term, he should have paid him less.

Marner was an overpayment at the time and is still an overpayment now. Marner was paid first line center money instead of playmaking winger money.

JT’s signing was done at market money, but it was given to a player we couldn’t afford to sign whilst simultaneously keeping our other young drafted stars long term and having adequate cap space left to build the rest of the team around them.

Nylander was an overpayment at the time, but now is closer to fair value.

JT is probably the best candidate to move but has a NTC and would probably never agree.

Marner would garner a return, but that return would be somewhat diminished with his salary and his recent playoff performance.

Nylander is a marketable asset that could be traded to fill other roster holes.

 

[DarkKnight]

Matthews is a first overall drafted pick. Dubas should have paid Matthews what he had to and locked him up for the maximum term. Matthews was the key building block. Instead he paid Matthews max term money but didn’t lock him up for the max term. So the money was fair the term was bad. If he was going to give him less term, he should have paid him less.

Marner was an overpayment at the time and is still an overpayment now. Marner was paid first line center money instead of playmaking winger money.

JT’s signing was done at market money, but it was given to a player we couldn’t afford to sign whilst simultaneously keeping our other young drafted stars long term and having adequate cap space left to build the rest of the team around them.

Nylander was an overpayment at the time, but now is closer to fair value.

JT is probably the best candidate to move but has a NTC and would probably never agree.

Marner would garner a return, but that return would be somewhat diminished with his salary and his recent playoff performance.

Nylander is a marketable asset that could be traded to fill other roster holes.

You left out giving them all the money up front, which is another win for their agents and I was told her repeatedly was a MLSE trump card to bring down the cap hit. Term, money, structure, all wins for the agents, three RFA’s.

 

[ToneDog]

You left out giving them all the money up front, which is another win for their agents and I was told her repeatedly was a MLSE trump card to bring down the cap hit. Term, money, structure, all wins for the agents, three RFA’s.

But that makes them so much more tradeable.

 

[axlrose87]

But that makes them so much more tradeable.

Hahahahaha…. Our only hope

 

[Koolboss]

JT signing has to be on the top, no need for him if you had Austin Matthews and Kadri.

 

[crump]

Seems crazy but only a couple of years of the top 4 group after this one. Both Willy and Matthews are UFA in 3 years

Pick the 2 you want to keep because that’s probably all we will be able to afford.

 

[Buds17]

It was one of the dominoes to fall due to the Tavares signing.

Maple Leafs trade veteran forward Matt Martin to Islanders

Matt Martin is going back to the New York Islanders.

The Toronto Maple Leafs have dealt the feisty forward to the Islanders, who drafted him in 2008. The Leafs get minor-league goalie Eamon McAdam in the deal.

The move comes two days after the Leafs beat out the Islanders for marquee free agent John Tavares, who had been with New York since starting his NHL career in 2009.

It marks the first trade between new Leafs GM Kyle Dubas and the man who preceded him in that role -- Islanders GM Lou Lamoriello.

Maple Leafs trade forward Martin to Islanders

Tavares, and Nylander too. The fourth line and 2.5 M seems like a logical place to trim cap from.

 

[egd27]

It's incredibly misleading. The start to the season Babcock had "when he was fired" was 9-10-4, with bad underlying metrics. Babcock was not fired for going 2-2-1 with strong underlying metrics. Countless teams, including Cup winners in the very same year you're referencing, have started seasons 2-2-1. It was a weak attempt to equate situations that are not remotely similar.

Hey @Pookie what did you mean by the exact same start?

 

[Menzinger]

It was one of the dominoes to fall due to the Tavares signing.

Maple Leafs trade veteran forward Matt Martin to Islanders

Matt Martin is going back to the New York Islanders.

The Toronto Maple Leafs have dealt the feisty forward to the Islanders, who drafted him in 2008. The Leafs get minor-league goalie Eamon McAdam in the deal.

The move comes two days after the Leafs beat out the Islanders for marquee free agent John Tavares, who had been with New York since starting his NHL career in 2009.

It marks the first trade between new Leafs GM Kyle Dubas and the man who preceded him in that role -- Islanders GM Lou Lamoriello.

Maple Leafs trade forward Martin to Islanders

Again, it was more likely Babcock's outright refusal to play him in the regular roster anymore that was more of a motivating factor than the Tavares addition.

Even if the team had 30 million sitting in capspace after, no team wants to have a 2.5 million dollar guy spending another year drinking bottled water and eating popcorn in the press box.