The New and really Improved , Kyle Dubas Discussion Thread

[socko]

That was stupid to pay a 1st for Marleau's contract, I thought at the time it would have been better to have traded Kadri for picks, "dumpster dived" for centres and kept Marleau. Ended up being right when they played like bums and didn't even make it past the play in for the playoffs anyway and lost the main asset in the Kadri trade to FA.

It was very stupid but easily trumped by the stupider Foligno trade. Dufus at work.

 

[DarkKnight]

But that makes them so much more tradeable.

True dat!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

But that makes them so much more tradeable.

Two things.

1. That doesn't matter. The truth is that players/agents DESPERATELY want front loaded/ signing-bonus laden contracts. Desparately. But most teams don't have the money to do it. So no matter how you slice it, that is an advantage the leafs have over many other teams in regards to lowering aav.

2. I don't think the players care in the f***ing slightest that it increases trade value. They're about 1 thing and 1 thing only. Money.

 

[Polaris1010]

All we have to do is compare the roster when Lamariello and Babcock were here, to the roster with Dubas and his coach in charge.

The organization used to have some real assets, young players with potential, and veterans that were good.

Today the organization has a roster full of spare parts, and apparently lighter in the 1st round draft choices in coming years.

 

[PromisedLand]

All we have to do is compare the roster when Lamariello and Babcock were here, to the roster with Dubas and his coach in charge.

The organization used to have some real assets, young players with potential, and veterans that were good.

Today the organization has a roster full of spare parts, and apparently lighter in the 1st round draft choices in coming years.

Include the capspace in that discussion too

 

[67leafs]

Who's Kadriel? I kinda want him too

Kadri lol

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I was trending towards being salty and negative but today is a good refresher not to fall down that path. Some of these takes are ridiculous.

Last one being Hyman @ 21-23 minutes a night, core player usage last 2 playoff, is off the hook because we have 4 other guys making big money.

In Jackets series he was top 3 usage, in Habs series he was top 3 usage. Give your heads a shake if you suddenly think Hymans 5 goals means he's suddenly a huge factor in us getting over the first round hump. We already know what he brings to reg. season. I need to see a good playoff performance before I cry over Hyman.

People to this day still cry over Nylanders contract too? That's my sign to stop reading the post and move on.


Going back to just enjoying the team and hope the top 6 can start clicking. This place is going downhill fast.

 

[ToneDog]

Two things.

1. That doesn't matter. The truth is that players/agents DESPERATELY want front loaded/ signing-bonus laden contracts. Desparately. But most teams don't have the money to do it. So no matter how you slice it, that is an advantage the leafs have over many other teams in regards to lowering aav.

2. I don't think the players care in the f***ing slightest that it increases trade value. They're about 1 thing and 1 thing only. Money.

yup, players care about the$$$$ and not their trade value but it can be the silver lining if push comes to shove and you need to move any of them.

 

[Pookie]

Hey @Pookie what did you mean by the exact same start?

5 games into the season he got fired, they had the exact same record.

If Keefe wins the next 2 games... he will have the exact same record after 7 games. (4-2-1)

 

[ToneDog]

All we have to do is compare the roster when Lamariello and Babcock were here, to the roster with Dubas and his coach in charge.

The organization used to have some real assets, young players with potential, and veterans that were good.

Today the organization has a roster full of spare parts, and apparently lighter in the 1st round draft choices in coming years.

But the Dubasites will tell you that Dubas is great at drafting and the pipeline is full. Too bad Hunter was terrible at finding gems past the first round, now we wait for the Dubas picks to save the day.

 

[egd27]

5 games into the season he got fired, they had the exact same record.

If Keefe wins the next 2 games... he will have the exact same record after 7 games. (4-2-1)

Yes, that's how I (and I imagine most others) interpreted it. Unfortunately Dekes found it misleading, and applied some sad sad explanation as to why that was.

So thanks for clearing it up.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Recall, when we he completed signing the top four to that absurd amount, everyone said the Dubas model had never been tried before. Perhaps we’re now realizing why not.

People can shit over Marner all they want, the fact is after the JT money and Dubas caving on Willie, then bending over to Matthews, his agent went hard, as he was supposed to do. There was no gun to Kyle’s head, nobody made him go after JT, nobody made him fly to Europe to appease RFA Nylander during an negotiation, ditto his agent in New York, nobody made him pay Matthews like a three time cup winning MVP, nobody made him pay Mitch before he did anything. All the bs excuses, the fact is he got raked over the coals by three RFA’s, on term, on up front money, on salary. The whole league knows it, no amount of repetitive rationalizing by the cult here changes it. The guy blew the contracts and we’ve been working around it ever since. Deal.

I am pretty sure that there was some kind of advanced stat that showed your best players win you the cup. So, instead of analyzing why that may be a product of depth along with the top guys...we just assumed the top guys did not need any support. They could do it all themselves and talent is hard to find etc....

Truth is we never should have done 2 things...1. We never let Dubas take over at a critical time when RFA contracts needed to be done. 2. We never sign JT. Those 2 things if we had gotten right...we would be miles ahead today. I know Lou had his warts and wasn't perfect...but you cannot convince me that we don't sign AM, WN and MM to WAY less than we did for all 3 of them if Lou is in charge.

This happened because Shanny panicked at the thought of losing Duby to Colorado when they came snooping around. He let Lou walk prematurely just to keep his prized pupil in T.O. Lou would have been good for another year or 2 to get us through the contracts and then he could have handed the duties over to Duby....

If ifs and butts were candies and nuts...we would all have a Merry Christmas....

 

[Mess]

Again, it was more likely Babcock's outright refusal to play him in the regular roster anymore that was more of a motivating factor than the Tavares addition.

Even if the team had 30 million sitting in capspace after, no team wants to have a 2.5 million dollar guy spending another year drinking bottled water and eating popcorn in the press box.

Out of curiosity why do you link Lou Lam wanted Matt Martin back in NYI, and why he is so much more effective there as part of the Isles Identity line and plays regularly on a team that has gone to the final 4 the past 2 seasons?

 

[PromisedLand]

Dubas is trending on twitter and the game hasn't even begun yet

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I am pretty sure that there was some kind of advanced stat that showed your best players win you the cup. So, instead of analyzing why that may be a product of depth along with the top guys...we just assumed the top guys did not need any support. They could do it all themselves and talent is hard to find etc....

Truth is we never should have done 2 things...1. We never let Dubas take over at a critical time when RFA contracts needed to be done. 2. We never sign JT. Those 2 things if we had gotten right...we would be miles ahead today. I know Lou had his warts and wasn't perfect...but you cannot convince me that we sign AM, WN and MM to WAY less than we did for all 3 of them if Lou is in charge.

This happened because Shanny panicked at the thought of losing Duby to Colorado when they came snooping around. He let Lou walk prematurely just to keep his prized pupil in T.O. Lou would have been good for another year or 2 to get us through the contracts and then he could have handed the duties over to Duby....

If ifs and butts were candies and nuts...we would all have a Merry Christmas....

I see this all the time that Lou would have gotten the 3 young stars to lower contracts but what makes anyone think that, based on the big list of overpriced contracts that he himself has given out?

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

The core is like 5 people and I heard that they gathered in Muskoka!?

If they lose tonight, they might want to gather again.

 

[Menzinger]

Well since we haven’t got to game 23 yet, I had to use game 5.

I’ll go game by game though for you as we go.

Next up: 3-2-1 for Babcock after game 6 that year

It was also clearly more than Babcock's record that season that led to him being fired.

 

[killer1980]

John Tavares contract has 3 years left after this year. Holy he's gonna be such a bad contract those last 2 years

Hopefully leafs can achieve something in the playoffs with him being a contributing player otherwise JT contract going to be an all time bad UFA signing. Destroyed our team

But not as bad as Marner's. I'll throw in Matthews. He floats and fires the puck with no regard for what's happening on the ice. Nylander is the only one trying.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Seems crazy but only a couple of years of the top 4 group after this one. Both Willy and Matthews are UFA in 3 years

Pick the 2 you want to keep because that’s probably all we will be able to afford.

Tavares isn’t going anywhere unless he agrees.

Matthews is the guy I resign if possible.

There’s the two you keep.

 

[egd27]

I know Lou had his warts and wasn't perfect...but you cannot convince me that we sign AM, WN and MM to WAY less than we did for all 3 of them if Lou is in charge.

I don't think this reads as you intended.

 

[Menzinger]

Out of curiosity why do you link Lou Lam wanted Matt Martin back in NYI, and why he is so much more effective there as part of the Isles Identity line and plays regularly on a team that has gone to the final 4 the past 2 seasons?

Lou likes his physicality and he has decentish shot suppression numbers

Perhaps Lou should have done a better job convincing Babcock to not dump him off the roster after less than half way through that 4 year deal.

 

[Pookie]

Yes, that's how I (and I imagine most others) interpreted it. Unfortunately Dekes found it misleading, and applied some sad sad explanation as to why that was.

So thanks for clearing it up.

Happy to help.

I have a craving for pretzels.

 

[Pookie]

It was also clearly more than Babcock's record that season that led to him being fired.

I know Matthews didn’t like him. Is that what you mean?

One might think back to back playoff cluster trucks would be a factor. Hopefully, Keefe stays on Matthews’ good side otherwise there isn’t much reason to keep him around

 

[egd27]

One might think back to back playoff cluster trucks would be a factor.

I know Matthews didn’t like him.

Hopefully Keefe stays on the good side.

Shelly wasn't too careful with his comments about AM34 at last night's post game media address.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Dubas is trending on twitter and the game hasn't even begun yet

Dubas experiment is coming to an end