The Fate of Dubas

[Gary Nylund]

You live in a fantasy world. In the real world, if they we’re to decide they want to trade him, they will find a way trade him. Obviously he has to give them permission, but that’s easy enough to do, once they tell him their decision thats he’s not wanted.

Good that you understand that, wasn't clear at all from your previous posts.

If we tell JT he's not wanted anymore, do you think the media storm that's guaranteed to follow is irrelevant?

How can you be sure JT will say yes, what if he says no, I'm not going anywhere and if you don't want me anymore, buy me out?

I'm pretty sure this isn't as easy as you seem to think.

 

[Mess]

Why do you keep saying "end of story"? Are you shutting down any more discussion?

Not cutting down discussion on message board, I'm pointing out Leaf Nation fans can yell and scream and set their hair on fire complaining but it falls on death ears to the only people that matter and those that are in charge and power.

What good will it do?

Brendan Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe are thick as thieves and Shanny basically calls his annual post-mortem press conference after every Leaf loss in round #1, and tells Leafs Nation the Shan-A-Plan is right on schedule, despite not winning a single playoff round in his 8 year tenure.. He believes in his boys, and stares into the camera and essentially tells Leafs Nation Fans "suck it up buttercup", we don't care what anybody else thinks, end of story essentially.

We have seen the team results don't even matter, to influence job evaluations, performance reviews and force change, not even embarrassing losses to CBJ and MON, where now even losing to TB is being shoveled BS as success because of who and how they lost. Management is patting themselves on the back for earning respect while LOSING, and not behind close doors but in public for everyone to see, while the outside world mocks Toronto for their behavior and their failure.

"Sports is a results oriented business" and in normal situations, constant and perpetual losing would force change.. But not in Toronto because its not a normal situation, its essentially a dictatorship and as long as Shanahan has full autonomy from MLSE he will do as he pleases and its basically, period, end of story, lights out, end of discussion for anybody/everybody else.

Resistance is futile, simply step into the light and accept the brainwashing, learn to accept the disappointment and rinse and repeat each season.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

That's unfair.

The Tavares decision has to be judged on the variables available to Dubas at the time. Hindsight helps no one.

* The cap was going to rise big time in the coming years
* Dubas had a clear role available for him. Matthews-Willy were doing well and Marner-Hyman would dominate with a superstar center allowing Naz to slide down to three.
* Tavares was still in his prime creating a world-class 1-2-3 punch down the middle
* Marner was coming off a decent playoff performance (who knew he would suddenly start choking during multiple playoff runs?)

Yes, it looks bad now as Tavares lacks chemistry with Nylander and the cap has become stagnant due to COVID, but the cap issue was impossible to predict.

In fact, I am consistent and use the same logic in the opposite direction to criticize his trade for Murray this offseason. It doesn't matter if Murray does well cause Dubas got fleeced at the time of the deal. The variables available to him (i.e. the nixed Buffalo trade + the almost 100% leverage over Dorion) meant he didn't need to accept such a meager return.

Dubas sucks and has taken a ten year window to compete for a cup and now we are looking at it slam shut next year. No amount of white washing the past will work on me or other knowledgable fans.

 

[Nineteen67]

Good that you understand that, wasn't clear at all from your previous posts.

If we tell JT he's not wanted anymore, do you think the media storm that's guaranteed to follow is irrelevant?

How can you be sure JT will say yes, what if he says no, I'm not going anywhere and if you don't want me anymore, buy me out?

I'm pretty sure this isn't as easy as you seem to think.

Once the decision is made to move the player, they’ll move the player.

What happens behind closed doors and what is said to the media is irrelevant.

They only reason these clauses exist is to give the player and the agent some control over where they go.

 

[Nineteen67]

That's unfair.

The Tavares decision has to be judged on the variables available to Dubas at the time. Hindsight helps no one.

* The cap was going to rise big time in the coming years
* Dubas had a clear role available for him. Matthews-Willy were doing well and Marner-Hyman would dominate with a superstar center allowing Naz to slide down to three.
* Tavares was still in his prime creating a world-class 1-2-3 punch down the middle
* Marner was coming off a decent playoff performance (who knew he would suddenly start choking during multiple playoff runs?)

Yes, it looks bad now as Tavares lacks chemistry with Nylander and the cap has become stagnant due to COVID, but the cap issue was impossible to predict.

In fact, I am consistent and use the same logic in the opposite direction to criticize his trade for Murray this offseason. It doesn't matter if Murray does well cause Dubas got fleeced at the time of the deal. The variables available to him (i.e. the nixed Buffalo trade + the almost 100% leverage over Dorion) meant he didn't need to accept such a meager return.

He could have waited,let the kids play, and kept drafting.

With AM they knew they had a future superstar C, but what they didn’t know was if they had a legit #1 D or #1G.

 

[meefer]

You always use respect and broach it however you see fit, but the reality is youre telling him he’s out the door, and you convince him it was his(JT) idea.

Care to explain how you do that?

 

[Trapper]

Care to explain how you do that?

When he’s in his Leaf pajamas.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I don't want to cause friction on this Sandin issue, but can't they just play hardball with Sandin by trading him. They like him, but they certainly don't need him.

Longer this goes, chances of a trade go up.

Care to explain how you do that?

magic beans

 

[Nineteen67]

Care to explain how you do that?

Key point in all this discussion - the organisation has made the decision that he no longer fits their needs and that they need to move him.

The rest is fairly easy, right? Call his agent, you call him and then you tell him.

 

[meefer]

Players haven’t been moved with a NTC? Who cares about the players stature?


Yes, getting the permission is the reason youre even conversing with him in the first place. Because management and the team is the boss in this situation they’re telling him what’s going to happen.

If they wanted to move JT, they will, regardless of your silly world

You apparently are not familiar with the term: NMC, No Move Contract, where according to the CBA, the first qualifier (according to CF)

• Player cannot be traded without his consent

Which hardly puts the 'boss' power into the hands of management.

 

[egd27]

I don't want to cause friction on this Sandin issue, but can't they just play hardball with Sandin by trading him. They like him, but they certainly don't need him.

They may once Muzzin and Gio breakdown. IMO that would be another example of Dubas' lack of foresight.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Key point in all this discussion - the organisation has made the decision that he no longer fits their needs and that they need to move him.

The rest is fairly easy, right? Call his agent, you call him and then you tell him.

And if his agent still says to go jump in the lake?

 

[meefer]

View attachment 569623
When he’s in his Leaf pajamas.

Thanks for the laugh

 

[The Masters]

cuz Dubas dupped him

That’s why they laugh at us. My friend is a Bruins fan and he can’t believe how we just rationalize losing now, especially a warrior like Shanny. Ten years ago Shanahan would have lambasted the word salad here for losing, he would never have stood for it. We’re the nicest organization in hockey and you know what they say about nice guys

 

[57 Years No Cup]

View attachment 569452

What the

Guys let’s be honest, if any other team in the league lost in the first round six straight times with practically the same management, coaching and players, and seemingly refuse to make any major changes to get over the hump, we’d all be rightfully clowning them. Yet with the Leafs it’s always the same excuses.

THIS^.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Once the decision is made to move the player, they’ll move the player.

What happens behind closed doors and what is said to the media is irrelevant.

They only reason these clauses exist is to give the player and the agent some control over where they go.

Some contracts do give the player the ability to make a list of teams where they don't want to play, I can only assume that that's the "some control" you're referring to. You seem to be under the impression that that is how JT's contract is set up so let me help you out here. Are you listening?

You're wrong. I hope that helps.

If you jump into someones conversation, at the least, dont affirm a statement of accuracy when your basic math is off by 25%. At the least, correct your post and excuse yourself for your error.

Are you high? I don't recall posting any math on this subject so what are you babbling about?

I wish I could like this post but they took away my like button. Lol

Haha I feel your pain. Walking that line between getting infracted or not isn't easy, the line is blurry and seems to shift from time to time.

 

[bentharbs]

This will be Dubas' final year as GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Kid clearly thinks he is better than Lily and wants more money (Kyper suggested up to $1m more) so he knows he is much better than Mete who can be a cheaper replacement if they decide to move Sandy.

Maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen anything about Sandin asking for more than Lilly. The only thing that I know of regarding his hold out is he doesn't see a spot for himself in the lineup with GIO staying.

I dont think Kyper knows anything. Sandin doesn't have any sort of leverage in this negotiation or any ground to really stand on to be asking for 2M since he has yet to be a full time NHL player playing 82 games. The only reason hes even played more games than Lilly was because we've had more injuries on the left side the last 2 years

 

[LeafGrief]

If Dubas is fired this year or next summer, it will be for lack of results and the Great Goalie Gamble of 21/22/23 going sideways.

I still think he's a good GM, but this is a results oriented business and he's bet the house on a core and a goalie. If it fails, he's gone and someone else will be brought in to breathe new life into the team and Dubas will get a job as a GM somewhere else within a year or two.

 

[kb]

Maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen anything about Sandin asking for more than Lilly. The only thing that I know of regarding his hold out is he doesn't see a spot for himself in the lineup with GIO staying.

I dont think Kyper knows anything. Sandin doesn't have any sort of leverage in this negotiation or any ground to really stand on to be asking for 2M since he has yet to be a full time NHL player playing 82 games. The only reason hes even played more games than Lilly was because we've had more injuries on the left side the last 2 years

Probably from this I would imagine....

 

[Shooter2x]

They may once Muzzin and Gio breakdown. IMO that would be another example of Dubas' lack of foresight.

Gio has some insane genetics. I swear internally he's younger than brodie and muzzin. Call me crazy but I have no concerns about Gio's health for next season.

If he trimmed those greys and had hair he'd look 29

 

[ToneDog]

Maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen anything about Sandin asking for more than Lilly. The only thing that I know of regarding his hold out is he doesn't see a spot for himself in the lineup with GIO staying.

I dont think Kyper knows anything. Sandin doesn't have any sort of leverage in this negotiation or any ground to really stand on to be asking for 2M since he has yet to be a full time NHL player playing 82 games. The only reason hes even played more games than Lilly was because we've had more injuries on the left side the last 2 years

I believe Leafs are offering the Lily deal. From what I have heard on radio, Sandy is asking for more. Only reason not to sign is if he is worried that if he is the #4LDH, he won't get the chance to up his value in time for his next deal.

See post 3116 in free agent frenzy thread.

 

[Tak7]

Cause few of them has made a significant impact.

Which is generally always the case with league minimum depth players - that's why they are available for league minimum.

If they don't work, they get moved on the next summer - which, again, comes back to my original point: why are we freaking out about 0 risk signings ?

 

[Racer88]

Which is generally always the case with league minimum depth players - that's why they are available for league minimum.

If they don't work, they get moved on the next summer - which, again, comes back to my original point: why are we freaking out about 0 risk signings ?

Because these types of signings do not move the team forward and it will be one more year wasted. Unless Dubas’s plan of just doing the same thing over and over until the other team get worse and then maybe we can advance past the 1st round comes to fruition

 

[Tak7]

Because these types of signings do not move the team forward and it will be one more year wasted. Unless Dubas’s plan of just doing the same thing over and over until the other team get worse and then maybe we can advance past the 1st round comes to fruition

These signings weren't made to dramatically move the team forward - I'll remind you, again, that these are depth signings.

Gaudette isn't coming to play 1st line minutes.
Malgin isn't coming to get more ice time than Marner.

You can make these signings and still improve the rest of the team.