The Fate of Dubas

[capfit9]

Guys let’s be honest, if any other team in the league lost in the first round six straight times with practically the same management, coaching and players, and seemingly refuse to make any major changes to get over the hump, we’d all be rightfully clowning them. Yet with the Leafs it’s always the same excuses.

 

[capfit9]

In order to see Leafs vision you have to ask yourself this question; If the Leafs had access to these new signings for last playoffs at the expense of players like Mikheyev, Spezza, Kase, Blackwell, Lyubushkin etc instead would the Leafs have beaten Tampa Bay in round #1 with better supporting depth?

That is essentially what Leafs management is banking on if they meet Tampa Bay again next year or another strong team that these new additions at the expense of last years subtractions are the difference makers between winning or losing in round #1.

Not everyone is on board or able to see this vision and are a little skeptical, while others are fully onboard with the improvements and the direction being taken. Others will tell you these are still early days and Dubas has simply prioritized all the depth moves first, and then the real roster moves to improve the team for playoff contention are still coming but as a secondary priority.

In order for improvements to be made cap space is required which is not available. The skepticism is justified because of Dubas' track record in the NHL playoffs would suggest that.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Guys let’s be honest, if any other team in the league lost in the first round six straight times with practically the same management, coaching and players, and seemingly refuse to make any major changes to get over the hump, we’d all be rightfully clowning them. Yet with the Leafs it’s always the same excuses.

Complete overhaul of the goaltending isn't a major change?

 

[Osmows OReilly]

Complete overhaul of the goaltending isn't a major change?

With Murray it’s more of a gamble but goaltending is not the only problem.

 

[A1LeafNation]

With Murray it’s more of a gamble but goaltending is not the only problem.

The top 5/6 dmen have changed over the last 4 years.

Isn't that a major change?

 

[notbias]

What a terrible offseason
Gaudette, Aube Kubel, Malgin, Benn, Mete

Some of these players are playing game 1. These are not all players for marlies, these are game 1 players which is scary as hell.

The bottom 6 up front is atrocious.

Our 3rd line is basically the same...

We only lost 1 important forward... where is everyone coming up with this garbage?


Just throw Nylander with Kampf and Engvall again and we have depth all of a sudden

 

[Osmows OReilly]

The top 5/6 dmen have changed over the last 4 years.

Isn't that a major change?

The defence has greatly improved yet we’ve had the exact same result, first round game seven loss. In my OP I was referring more to the core forwards (Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander) when it came to players.

 

[A1LeafNation]

The defence has greatly improved yet we’ve had the exact same result, first round game seven loss. In my OP I was referring more to the core forwards (Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander) when it came to players.

Nylander has been our most productive player in the playoffs. Matthews looked good this playoffs as did Marner.

I don't know how we trade our other 11m player though. If there is a solution to that pass it to Kyle.

 

[Stephen]

In order to see Leafs vision you have to ask yourself this question; If the Leafs had access to these new signings for last playoffs at the expense of players like Mikheyev, Spezza, Kase, Blackwell, Lyubushkin etc instead would the Leafs have beaten Tampa Bay in round #1 with better supporting depth?

That is essentially what Leafs management is banking on if they meet Tampa Bay again next year or another strong team that these new additions at the expense of last years subtractions are the difference makers between winning or losing in round #1.

Not everyone is on board or able to see this vision and are a little skeptical, while others are fully onboard with the improvements and the direction being taken. Others will tell you these are still early days and Dubas has simply prioritized all the depth moves first, and then the real roster moves to improve the team for playoff contention are still coming but as a secondary priority.

I’m skeptical of the Mete project because I’m not sure what the purpose of it is.

Let’s walk through the next steps and play out what is likely to happen and what the upside is that could help the Leafs.

Let’s say this player type is mostly a Marlie and doesn’t push beyond 8th on the depth chart. No biggie.

Let’s say this guy pushed for a role on the team in training camp. Great. But where does he play if there’s no room for a Sandin?

Let’s say he’s so incredibly good that he pushes for a top 4 role. Incredible find. But does his play style help the Leafs get harder to play against playoff style? So i guess I’m getting ahead of myself here but even if he’s amazing it’s not obvious what he would be solving.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I’m skeptical of the Mete project because I’m not sure what the purpose of it is.

Let’s walk through the next steps and play out what is likely to happen and what the upside is that could help the Leafs.

Let’s say this player type is mostly a Marlie and doesn’t push beyond 8th on the depth chart. No biggie.

Let’s say this guy pushed for a role on the team in training camp. Great. But where does he play if there’s no room for a Sandin?

Let’s say he’s so incredibly good that he pushes for a top 4 role. Incredible find. But does his play style help the Leafs get harder to play against playoff style? So i guess I’m getting ahead of myself here but even if he’s amazing it’s not obvious what he would be solving.

Mete/Benn are there to fill in short term for injuries. Offense or defence, whichever is needed.

 

[keonsbitterness]

......depends on the playoffs.

THE END

 

[Madap]

In order to see Leafs vision you have to ask yourself this question; If the Leafs had access to these new signings for last playoffs at the expense of players like Mikheyev, Spezza, Kase, Blackwell, Lyubushkin etc instead would the Leafs have beaten Tampa Bay in round #1 with better supporting depth?

That is essentially what Leafs management is banking on if they meet Tampa Bay again next year or another strong team that these new additions at the expense of last years subtractions are the difference makers between winning or losing in round #1.

Not everyone is on board or able to see this vision and are a little skeptical, while others are fully onboard with the improvements and the direction being taken. Others will tell you these are still early days and Dubas has simply prioritized all the depth moves first, and then the real roster moves to improve the team for playoff contention are still coming but as a secondary priority.

Nope. Your second paragraph is completely false and you know that.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

Dubas was gifted all the autonomy, money and resources in the world. A whole crop of star players on ELC's and enough cap space where he decided to blow his wad on that pathetic example of a captain. This team has never and will never recover from that disaster of a decision. It amazes me how so many fans cant see Dubie as the total goof and train wreck of a gm that he is.

 

[AllDay28]

Guys let’s be honest, if any other team in the league lost in the first round six straight times with practically the same management, coaching and players, and seemingly refuse to make any major changes to get over the hump, we’d all be rightfully clowning them. Yet with the Leafs it’s always the same excuses.

why is it always 6 years when they were only favs in 2? (maybe 3 with TB which is ludicrous). I'm sure you guys were punching air when the young leafs lost to Wash and then Boston

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

why is it always 6 years when they were only favs in 2? (maybe 3 with TB which is ludicrous). I'm sure you guys were punching air when the young leafs lost to Wash and then Boston

Washington? no because that was unexpected.

Boston? yeah particularly in 2019

 

[mikeyz]

Guys let’s be honest, if any other team in the league lost in the first round six straight times with practically the same management, coaching and players, and seemingly refuse to make any major changes to get over the hump, we’d all be rightfully clowning them. Yet with the Leafs it’s always the same excuses.

It’s so true.

Dubas was gifted all the autonomy, money and resources in the world. A whole crop of star players on ELC's and enough cap space where he decided to blow his wad on that pathetic example of a captain. This team has never and will never recover from that disaster of a decision. It amazes me how so many fans cant see Dubie as the total goof and train wreck of a gm that he is.

I wish I could like this a million times.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Dubas was gifted all the autonomy, money and resources in the world. A whole crop of star players on ELC's and enough cap space where he decided to blow his wad on that pathetic example of a captain. This team has never and will never recover from that disaster of a decision. It amazes me how so many fans cant see Dubie as the total goof and train wreck of a gm that he is.

That's unfair.

The Tavares decision has to be judged on the variables available to Dubas at the time. Hindsight helps no one.

* The cap was going to rise big time in the coming years
* Dubas had a clear role available for him. Matthews-Willy were doing well and Marner-Hyman would dominate with a superstar center allowing Naz to slide down to three.
* Tavares was still in his prime creating a world-class 1-2-3 punch down the middle
* Marner was coming off a decent playoff performance (who knew he would suddenly start choking during multiple playoff runs?)

Yes, it looks bad now as Tavares lacks chemistry with Nylander and the cap has become stagnant due to COVID, but the cap issue was impossible to predict.

In fact, I am consistent and use the same logic in the opposite direction to criticize his trade for Murray this offseason. It doesn't matter if Murray does well cause Dubas got fleeced at the time of the deal. The variables available to him (i.e. the nixed Buffalo trade + the almost 100% leverage over Dorion) meant he didn't need to accept such a meager return.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

why is it always 6 years when they were only favs in 2? (maybe 3 with TB which is ludicrous). I'm sure you guys were punching air when the young leafs lost to Wash and then Boston

Leafs get punished for being too good too fast. No one expected them to make the playoffs the immediate season after drafting Matthews. Frankly a lot of people didn’t think they would that second year either, believing 16-17 was a fluke.

Not that 4 straight first round exits is that much better, but context shouldn’t be ignored for those early years.

 

[Nooodles]

Who would you rather have as our 8/9 D?

Roman Josi at least

 

[c9777666]

Maybe Dubas should have overpaid lesser talented players like Chuck Fletcher.

 

[Tak7]

I'm convinced some posters here don't actually pay attention to the team, and just angrily slam their fingers into keyboards.

Dubas has signed depth pieces every single off-season since he arrived. The one competitive financial advantage the Leafs have over other teams, is that they can offer higher AHL salaries/1-way deals to a lot of guys - this is something they've always done.

So why now is it a problem?

 

[LilySmoov]

Guys let’s be honest, if any other team in the league lost in the first round six straight times with practically the same management, coaching and players, and seemingly refuse to make any major changes to get over the hump, we’d all be rightfully clowning them. Yet with the Leafs it’s always the same excuses.

"practically the same management, coaching..."

Were Lamoriello and Babcock not our GM and coach respectively up until the 18-19 season?

Man it's wild how I just completely hallucinated us unequivocally not having practically the same management and coaching for the first 3 of those 6 years. Anyone else have that exact same hallucination?

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Surely I can't be the only one bothered by his recent moves

Like the guy is actually wasting his time with these fringe NHLer signings Malgin, Benn, Mete

What is the game plan here? He's rounding up the roster with fringe NHLers on cheap deals and our team looks way worse on paper

I can't see him lasting till the end of the season

can only hope. wish he was gone last year

 

[justashadowof]

I’m skeptical of the Mete project because I’m not sure what the purpose of it is.

I'll suggest this as an explanation: negotiation pressure on the Sandin camp. Or replacement if Sandin gets moved.

 

[Racer88]

Complete overhaul of the goaltending isn't a major change?

It is a major change for sure but the 2 guys He has bet on are very long shots at best and total disasters at worst