The Fate of Dubas

[Throw More Waffles]

I do not like Dubas and cannot wait for him to be gone, but we have to be fair here and you've brought up a good point. When he signed those deals nobody could have predicted the cap remaining stagnant like that. It was expected to rise, and would have had the pandemic not hit, so he expected to have more money to fill out the roster. As much as I dislike him, we have to take this into account.

It's a flat cap for every gm. Dubas was just relying on projected cap increases more than the other gm's because he put himself in more of a cap nightmare than the other gm's.

 

[Leaf Fans]

You and Gary Nylund two peas in a pod

We are both knowledgeable.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I'm pretty much indifferent as this point. He has made his own bed. It's win or lose time. He has made mistakes and now has to react all the time instead of driving. He has given up too many picks and the prospect pool reflects that as other teams are catching up now. He was given the perfect build, now it's time to deliver. It will take a new GM years to clean up this mess as teams like Ottawa, Buffalo fly past us if Mathews leaves.

 

[socko]

Either Matt Murray is Cinderella Man or Kyle Dubas is toast.

 

[hullsy47]

Either Matt Murray is Cinderella Man or Kyle Dubas is toast.

It's easy to be a good gm when u have cap space
It'll be Dorian being roasted when shultze and Tkachuk get paid
I see another core 4 lol

 

[ToneDog]

It's easy to be a good gm when u have cap space
It'll be Dorian being roasted when shultze and Tkachuk get paid
I see another core 4 lol

Dorion appears to be smarter now that he has been given some rope and money to spend. How long do you think Kyle lasts under Melnyk making signings like Ritchie and Mrazek ?? Do you think Eugene allows him to fire Babs and eats $24m ??

 

[cupcrazyman2]

Dubas will not be the GM by seasons end.

 

[colchar]

Dubas will not be the GM by seasons end.

Sadly, that means the Leafs will have to crash and burn first. But I guess short term pain for long term gain is OK, especially if it means the end of Kyle Spreadsheet Dubious and Keefe. Problem is, what coach will be available then???

 

[egd27]

I do not like Dubas and cannot wait for him to be gone, but we have to be fair here and you've brought up a good point. When he signed those deals nobody could have predicted the cap remaining stagnant like that. It was expected to rise, and would have had the pandemic not hit, so he expected to have more money to fill out the roster. As much as I dislike him, we have to take this into account.

When circumstances change then good managers adapt and change their approach to match the new reality. Yes, the flat cap messed up his (and everyones else's) plan, so why hasn't he changed it?

 

[ToneDog]

Sadly, that means the Leafs will have to crash and burn first. But I guess short term pain for long term gain is OK, especially if it means the end of Kyle Spreadsheet Dubious and Keefe. Problem is, what coach will be available then???

Trotz. Larry has him on standby.

 

[Daddy]

We are both knowlable.

This post crushes it.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This post crushes it.

It would have been perfect had I spelled knowledgeable correctly. Oh well, you win some, and you lose some. I really should change it.

Dubas will not be the GM by seasons end.

He might be.

 

[barilko05]

When circumstances change then good managers adapt and change their approach to match the new reality. Yes, the flat cap messed up his (and everyones else's) plan, so why hasn't he changed it?

And how do u propose he do that? Trade one of the big three? Ask the league "pretty please let us spend over the cap"?
Sit on his hands and do nothing? No matter what he did, all his detractors would fly to their greasy keyboards to be the first ones in here to shit on it. I think he handled the flat cap as well as could be expected given the limited resources he had to work with, which I blame on M&M and Willie looking after themselves first and not concerning themselves with how it might screw the team over in the long term. Sure...he has a noodle for a spine for letting those 3 run him over in negotiations but I think he's filled and patched pretty well in the meantime. But ultimately he can't play the game 4 the players. Winning and losing is on their heads IMO.

 

[CelticDruid]

This off season has been pretty underwhelming to say the least.

Dubas has only had to reach into the dumpster before, but now Shanahan and Keefe both have to hold onto his ankles while he rumages amongst the garbage.

 

[egd27]

And how do u propose he do that? Trade one of the big three? Ask the league "pretty please let us spend over the cap"?
Sit on his hands and do nothing? No matter what he did, all his detractors would fly to their greasy keyboards to be the first ones in here to shit on it. I think he handled the flat cap as well as could be expected given the limited resources he had to work with, which I blame on M&M and Willie looking after themselves first and not concerning themselves with how it might screw the team over in the long term. Sure...he has a noodle for a spine for letting those 3 run him over in negotiations but I think he's filled and patched pretty well in the meantime. But ultimately he can't play the game 4 the players. Winning and losing is on their heads IMO.

Fine, you seem happy with his decision to stick with "his guys" and that he's done as well as can be expected. But it's foolish to say he didn't have options. (and yes moving salary for a return rather than moving salary along with assets, could have been an approach)

 

[Leafsfan74]

You get what you paid for.

The bargain basement bin is just that.

But according to some, with some arcane statistical regression, it was a bargain, and the team is an inch closer to planning the parade.

This act has gone stale already.

Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe, they are still there because of the ass kissing.

They are not there because of their hockey acumen.

Shanahan fired two coaches, each who had won Stanley Cups coaching, yet Shanahan never even saw this team win a series in the playoffs. The irony is that the firing of the coaches, was not even due to them not winning a playoff series.

It won't get any better. Moe Larry and Curly have done all they could.

The Three Stooges were the best. Shoutout to Shemp as well, he gets a bad rap.

 

[deprw]

Fine, you seem happy with his decision to stick with "his guys" and that he's done as well as can be expected. But it's foolish to say he didn't have options. (and yes moving salary for a return rather than moving salary along with assets, could have been an approach)

I think the consensus here was to trade Marner, after last years failure. I think standing pat on that was right move even if it leads to short term pain. Some GM would have pushed that button to get short term fix.

You can't acquire elite talent easily. Problem here is Tavares, but since you can't dumb him shouldn't lead to situation where you sacrifice building block, which Marner clearly is to us.

Marner and Matthews are our Ovechkin and Bäckström.

In this situation Nylander contract is pretty good and when you look what Debrincat bought to Blackhawks you better be sure you can allocate that cap better. I don't think we get that value from UFA market.

 

[egd27]

I think the consensus here was to trade Marner, after last years failure. I think standing pat on that was right move even if it leads to short term pain. Some GM would have pushed that button to get short term fix.

You can't acquire elite talent easily. Problem here is Tavares, but since you can't dumb him shouldn't lead to situation where you sacrifice building block, which Marner clearly is to us.

Marner and Matthews are our Ovechkin and Bäckström.

In this situation Nylander contract is pretty good and when you look what Debrincat bought to Blackhawks you better be sure you can allocate that cap better. I don't think we get that value from UFA market.

1. I don't believe it would have needed to be a short term fix, it could have been a combination of getting some immediate help and some younger assets for a year or two down the road.

2. Agreed.

3. Yes, the contract is pretty good (which makes it attractive) but it's for a position where Dubas has already dropped $33M on three other offensively minded forwards. Perhaps that money could have been used for address other areas.

The flat cap derailed what he thought he could pull off. That's unfortunate for him, but to maintain the same philosophy IMO is a mistake.

 

[zeke]

It's a flat cap for every gm. Dubas was just relying on projected cap increases more than the other gm's because he put himself in more of a cap nightmare than the other gm's.

Such a nightmare that he finished in 4th place.

 

[deprw]

Fine, you seem happy with his decision to stick with "his guys" and that he's done as well as can be expected. But it's foolish to say he didn't have options. (and yes moving salary for a return rather than moving salary along with assets, could have been an approach)

I think the consensus here was to trade Marner, after last years failure. I think standing pat on that was right move even if it leads to short term pain. Some GM would have pushed that button to get short term fix.

You can't acquire elite talent easily. Problem here is Tavares, but since you can't dumb him shouldn't lead to situation where you sacrifice building block, which Marner clearly is to us.

Marner and Matthews are our Ovechkin and Bäckström.

In this situation Nylander contract is pretty good and when you look what Debrincat bought to Blackhawks you better be sure you can allocate that cap better. I don't think we get that value from UFA market.

 

[PromisedLand]

If there is any accountability at MLSE Dubas should be fired! He should have been fired right after the habs series IMO

 

[deprw]

1. I don't believe it would have needed to be a short term fix, it could have been a combination of getting some immediate help and some younger assets for a year or two down the road.

2. Agreed.

3. Yes, the contract is pretty good (which makes it attractive) but it's for a position where Dubas has already dropped $33M on three other offensively minded forwards. Perhaps that money could have been used for address other areas.

The flat cap derailed what he thought he could pull off. That's unfortunate for him, but to maintain the same philosophy IMO is a mistake.

Sorry spammed my message twice, this new forum doesn't work that well on phone.

I think the problem with 1 and 3 is that you can get nice bag of futures, but it's far from sure thing to get elite asset. Usually it's futures that consist on picks and young players, but you doesn't get one great asset. Hall trade is good example of situation where winger is traded for defense.

You lose value and you have to get those elite pieces from market and it's really hard. That's why GMs and teams rarely trade those. I think that is the reason we signed Tavares in first place.

At the moment everone knows that Kadri will be overpaid and terrible contract pretty soon. There are still teams lined up to sign him since there are no alternatives. One team got Trochek and some will sign Stastny, after they lose on Kadri sweeptakes. Even if you have space you might not get the player you want even with overpayment.

Acquiring talent is hard and if you aren't sure about good end result it's better to overpay Marner and keep Nylander. If we ditch Tavares our second line center is Kerfoot, Stastny or Järnkrok. Or way overpaid Kadri.

Ottawa and Jersey are betting on their youngsters and if they sink they sink, it's almost the same with us. Off course sometimes that talent is Duchene or Johansen and you ditch him, because he isn't core piece. We did that with Kadri and after four failures he became one, so it isn't always paying out either.

That's why I'm hesitant when we talk about trading our elite talent.

 

[egd27]

Sorry spammed my message twice, this new forum doesn't work that well on phone.

I think the problem with 1 and 3 is that you can get nice bag of futures, but it's far from sure thing to get elite asset. Usually it's futures that consist on picks and young players, but you doesn't get one great asset. Hall trade is good example of situation where winger is traded for defense.

You lose value and you have to get those elite pieces from market and it's really hard. That's why GMs and teams rarely trade those. I think that is the reason we signed Tavares in first place.

At the moment everone knows that Kadri will be overpaid and terrible contract pretty soon. There are still teams lined up to sign him since there are no alternatives. One team got Trochek and some will sign Stastny, after they lose on Kadri sweeptakes. Even if you have space you might not get the player you want even with overpayment.

Acquiring talent is hard and if you aren't sure about good end result it's better to overpay Marner and keep Nylander. If we ditch Tavares our second line center is Kerfoot, Stastny or Järnkrok. Or way overpaid Kadri.

Ottawa and Jersey are betting on their youngsters and if they sink they sink, it's almost the same with us. Off course sometimes that talent is Duchene or Johansen and you ditch him, because he isn't core piece. We did that with Kadri and after four failures he became one, so it isn't always paying out either.

That's why I'm hesitant when we talk about trading our elite talent.

While I agree you will likely "lose" a Marner trade, the goal is not to win or lose individual trades.

The option is to hang on to all of the four, but keep bleeding other assets over and over as they become unaffordable, (and even give more assets to to shed some of them) or bite the bullet, accept that the flat cap screwed you, and regroup.

We know Dubas' choice, so I guess we just have wait and see if he's right.

 

[ULF_55]

Sorry spammed my message twice, this new forum doesn't work that well on phone.

I think the problem with 1 and 3 is that you can get nice bag of futures, but it's far from sure thing to get elite asset. Usually it's futures that consist on picks and young players, but you doesn't get one great asset. Hall trade is good example of situation where winger is traded for defense.

You lose value and you have to get those elite pieces from market and it's really hard. That's why GMs and teams rarely trade those. I think that is the reason we signed Tavares in first place.

At the moment everone knows that Kadri will be overpaid and terrible contract pretty soon. There are still teams lined up to sign him since there are no alternatives. One team got Trochek and some will sign Stastny, after they lose on Kadri sweeptakes. Even if you have space you might not get the player you want even with overpayment.

Acquiring talent is hard and if you aren't sure about good end result it's better to overpay Marner and keep Nylander. If we ditch Tavares our second line center is Kerfoot, Stastny or Järnkrok. Or way overpaid Kadri.

Ottawa and Jersey are betting on their youngsters and if they sink they sink, it's almost the same with us. Off course sometimes that talent is Duchene or Johansen and you ditch him, because he isn't core piece. We did that with Kadri and after four failures he became one, so it isn't always paying out either.

That's why I'm hesitant when we talk about trading our elite talent.

That's why the scouting staff is so important.

There would be nothing with with the 3 double digits if they could bring up talent on ELC's that could play with them.

With three players making are making 40% of the Cap, you have to make sure you can draft players who can step in before they're overpaid.

Those 3 players are in a league of their own, next closest forward is making 37% less than the lowest double digit.

Of course what if you have those ELCs but the coach won't play them?

 

[deprw]

That's why the scouting staff is so important.

There would be nothing with with the 3 double digits if they could bring up talent on ELC's that could play with them.

With three players making are making 40% of the Cap, you have to make sure you can draft players who can step in before they're overpaid.

Those 3 players are in a league of their own, next closest forward is making 37% less than the lowest double digit.

Of course what if you have those ELCs but the coach won't play them?

At the moment we are reaping the failures of Hunter's drafting and if this goes on it falls on Dubas. That ELC talent is so important and it is really holding us down.