The Fall of Pierre

[KevinRedkey]

How many teams legit have 4 top 4 defencemalen?

Ottawa has 3. On paper, I don't think it's as bad as the results have been. The offense is good and the defence shouldn't be as bad as it is. The system employed is absolute garbage.

Dorion's biggest two mistakes were not trading for Marino, and hanging on to DJ too long.

 

[Micklebot]

How many teams legit have 4 top 4 defencemalen?

Ottawa has 3. On paper, I don't think it's as bad as the results have been. The offense is good and the defence shouldn't be as bad as it is. The system employed is absolute garbage.

Dorion's biggest two mistakes were not trading for Marino, and hanging on to DJ too long.

I mean, most teams should legit have 4 top 4 Dmen, fans just have unreasonable expectations on what a top 4 Dman is.

Top 4 Dman can be defined in a few ways, but no matter how you define it, you should end up with about 130 names, and for every team that lacks a legit top 4 Dman, there will be a team with an extra one, otherwise you're truly setting the threshold of top 4 as a top 3.

 

[Big Muddy]

How many teams legit have 4 top 4 defencemalen?

Ottawa has 3. On paper, I don't think it's as bad as the results have been. The offense is good and the defence shouldn't be as bad as it is. The system employed is absolute garbage.

Dorion's biggest two mistakes were not trading for Marino, and hanging on to DJ too long.

Most of the good teams. It depends on the definition. It doesn't mean that you need 4 stud defenders. It means that you have two pairs of defenders that play well with respective partners.

We will have 2 good defenders if Zub does not resign with us. That's going to be a large problem obviously if that does occur.

 

[Big Muddy]

I know Vancouver has pretty mild winters but we're almost a month away from that thread. Maybe we could get away with a winter is coming thread ...

LOL. Made me chortle.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I know Vancouver has pretty mild winters but we're almost a month away from that thread. Maybe we could get away with a winter is coming thread ...

Haha, we have started pulling the Christmas stuff up, and we’re supposed to hit some minus temps next week. Winter is definitely here on the island!

 

[Golden_Jet]

Its incredible this guy is a GM still. When you look at the circumstances of his extended tenure:

- Owner is to crazy and to cheap to hire an experienced and reputable GM so he goes with the cheap and obedient option in Dorion - owner will use anger and spite to manage the horrid mood of his fanbase to make up for the lack of funds and his GM incompetence.

- Erik Karlsson gets the GM within 1 goal of the Cup finals and the GM is a finalist for GM if the year - maybe he’s not as dumb and unpolished as we all thought he was. He does have a girlfriend after all.

- everyone gets traded, rebuild is the cheapest option forthe cheapest owner in hockey. The man with ‘the girlfriend’ presents a cheap plan and the owner eats it up. Friends.

- everyone is quiting. Some of them weeks into their hiring, some months. Alfie was the first with a quick exit, Chris Kelly, a bunch of presidents, some people who dont like changing their garbages at the office, some guy who really like hot dogs and ginormous tarps. A guy came from France and got fired. Dorion the chaos master actually becomes the steady hand on a sinking ship. HE WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP, Dido sends Dorion a personal note of support

- owner dying of cancer, no time to make changes in a time like this. Also has some airplane and yacht lawsuits to get to.

- Sens are being sold, stability and cost predictability needed. No changes made while the daughters get their cheque. And who cares anyones, Ryan Reynolds is coming and Dorion will be a bad footnote on this teams history.

Melnyk sure is in your head, even though he’s gone now lol.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Melnyk sure is in your head, even though he’s gone now lol.

Management and coaching are basically the last holdovers remaining from Melnyk's tenure and that'll likely change with new ownership. Gonna be real interesting to see what happens this summer.

 

[bashbros32]

One thing I don't see enough people talking about is how Gustavsson->Talbot is probably about as bad as Zibanejad->Brassard.

Gustavsson is 11 years younger than Talbot.

Talbot has been good to great, don't get me wrong, but he is a stop-gap, while Gustavsson is nearly as good already and only 24...

This trade could end up being worse than the Zibby one because Ottawa has only ever had 2 legit starting goalies for any real length of time, and both were inconsistent as hell.

We gave up 2 legit top 20 goalies back in the day to keep Andy, and we may have given up another potential long-term starter this summer.

We gave up Ben Bishop at 26, and Robin Lehner at 24, and now we may have given up another starter quality goalie at 24... for a position that requires patience and a lot of baking, we always seem to yank ours out of the oven and fire it away before it's ready all the time.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Melnyk sure is in your head, even though he’s gone now lol.

Hate never dies…..

One thing I don't see enough people talking about is how Gustavsson->Talbot is probably about as bad as Zibanejad->Brassard.

Gustavsson is 11 years younger than Talbot.

Talbot has been good to great, don't get me wrong, but he is a stop-gap, while Gustavsson is nearly as good already and only 24...

This trade could end up being worse than the Zibby one because Ottawa has only ever had 2 legit starting goalies for any real length of time, and both were inconsistent as hell.

We gave up 2 legit top 20 goalies back in the day to keep Andy, and we may have given up another potential long-term starter this summer.

We gave up Ben Bishop at 26, and Robin Lehner at 24, and now we may have given up another starter quality goalie at 24... for a position that requires patience and a lot of baking, we always seem to yank ours out of the oven and fire it away before it's ready all the time.

Pretty sure the Senators had Gus on their protected list, for the last expansion draft… when they lost Daccord.

you would think having protected him, that he would have been in the long term plans.

 

[bicboi64]

One thing I don't see enough people talking about is how Gustavsson->Talbot is probably about as bad as Zibanejad->Brassard.

Gustavsson is 11 years younger than Talbot.

Talbot has been good to great, don't get me wrong, but he is a stop-gap, while Gustavsson is nearly as good already and only 24...

This trade could end up being worse than the Zibby one because Ottawa has only ever had 2 legit starting goalies for any real length of time, and both were inconsistent as hell.

We gave up 2 legit top 20 goalies back in the day to keep Andy, and we may have given up another potential long-term starter this summer.

We gave up Ben Bishop at 26, and Robin Lehner at 24, and now we may have given up another starter quality goalie at 24... for a position that requires patience and a lot of baking, we always seem to yank ours out of the oven and fire it away before it's ready all the time.

On top of that, we traded Gus to a team that was having cap issues and had holes to address. Minnesota is dealing with the shittiest cap situation in the league with the $12+ million dead capspace they have off the Parise and Suter buyouts. The Wild are in cap crunch and if we're taking $3.6 million off their books, it gives them flexibility to address their issues, we should at least be getting a pick.

They acquired a goalie who didn't want to be in a 1A/B situation, while Ottawa is in a 1A/B situation.

A day later we move out Brown to make room for more signings. Maybe PD doesn't have to do that if he didn't get Talbot.

I think Talbot has been fine for us, .918 save percentage in the little he's played gives us a chance to win, but acquiring him the way we did is another example of Dorion being shit at making deals and having no vision.

 

[Big Muddy]

On top of that, we traded Gus to a team that was having cap issues and had holes to address. Minnesota is dealing with the shittiest cap situation in the league with the $12+ million dead capspace they have off the Parise and Suter buyouts. The Wild are in cap crunch and if we're taking $3.6 million off their books, it gives them flexibility to address their issues, we should at least be getting a pick.

They acquired a goalie who didn't want to be in a 1A/B situation, while Ottawa is in a 1A/B situation.

A day later we move out Brown to make room for more signings. Maybe PD doesn't have to do that if he didn't get Talbot.

I think Talbot has been fine for us, .918 save percentage in the little he's played gives us a chance to win, but acquiring him the way we did is another example of Dorion being shit at making deals and having no vision.

Talbot signing was probably another move made with the short term objective in mind of prepping the team for a sale. The calculus was probably Talbot would be better this year versus Gustavsson who would require another year or two (approx, maybe more) to reach his potential.

If two defenders and a goalie are required, the new GM and management team will have some work to do for sure.

 

[Micklebot]

On top of that, we traded Gus to a team that was having cap issues and had holes to address. Minnesota is dealing with the shittiest cap situation in the league with the $12+ million dead capspace they have off the Parise and Suter buyouts. The Wild are in cap crunch and if we're taking $3.6 million off their books, it gives them flexibility to address their issues, we should at least be getting a pick.

They acquired a goalie who didn't want to be in a 1A/B situation, while Ottawa is in a 1A/B situation.

A day later we move out Brown to make room for more signings. Maybe PD doesn't have to do that if he didn't get Talbot.

I think Talbot has been fine for us, .918 save percentage in the little he's played gives us a chance to win, but acquiring him the way we did is another example of Dorion being shit at making deals and having no vision.

I get wanting a more proven goalie than Forsberg, and its a lot harder to trade Forsberg for a Talbot than it is to trade Gus, but NJD did it right, they gave up almost nothing for Vanecek, a 3rd and downgraded their 2nd by 9 spots. They got a 26 year old goalie with a good track record in a 1b situation who'd arguably been outplaying Samsonov in Washington.

We perhaps couldn't go that route since we'd lose gus on waivers, maybe Washington would have taken Gus for Vanecek. that would have been a better trade for us imo.

 

[bicboi64]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Talbot being added to the team, but it would have made more sense to get him, in addition to getting a better blueline.

Talbot played behind a blueline that is better than ours so why not get another D to round out our top 4? It's like PD expected Talbot to come in and Shesterkin us into the playoffs.

 

[Micklebot]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Talbot being added to the team, but it would have made more sense to get him, in addition to getting a better blueline.

Talbot played behind a blueline that is better than ours so why not get another D to round out our top 4? It's like PD expected Talbot to come in and Shesterkin us into the playoffs.

I mean, I suspect that was the plan, Dorion was allegedly chasing Chychrun well after acquiring Talbot. Obviously Chychrun wouldn't have changed anything for the first 17 games but I don't think they knew initially he'd be out this long

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Brucie G. Reported that It was up to Formenton but that Dorion has been trying to trade him




Formenton's decision? Why hasn't Formenton accepted the offer? Obvious this was an offer with the purpose to be where where are now. What a loss.

 

[sennysensen]

One thing I don't see enough people talking about is how Gustavsson->Talbot is probably about as bad as Zibanejad->Brassard.

Gustavsson is 11 years younger than Talbot.

Talbot has been good to great, don't get me wrong, but he is a stop-gap, while Gustavsson is nearly as good already and only 24...

This trade could end up being worse than the Zibby one because Ottawa has only ever had 2 legit starting goalies for any real length of time, and both were inconsistent as hell.

We gave up 2 legit top 20 goalies back in the day to keep Andy, and we may have given up another potential long-term starter this summer.

We gave up Ben Bishop at 26, and Robin Lehner at 24, and now we may have given up another starter quality goalie at 24... for a position that requires patience and a lot of baking, we always seem to yank ours out of the oven and fire it away before it's ready all the time.

The funny part about that is that the much older Anderson outlasted Bishop and Lehner, and overall was better than them. I originally thought that down the road we'd have to watch Bishop and Lehner playing well after Andy had retired, I couldn't have imagined that Bishop and Lehner would have to retire due to injuries while Andy is still playing at 41. Yes, I know Lehner hasn't retired yet, but I can't see a 260 pound goalie recover fully from serious hip injuries.

Gustavsson is mediocre and inconsistant, we'll forget about him in a few years.

If Talbot keeps playing well, and the Sens are out of the race, do they trade Talbot at the deadline? What do they get for him? Hopefully there are a couple of desperate teams that want to make a run, that have either bad or injured goaltending.

 

[bashbros32]

The funny part about that is that the much older Anderson outlasted Bishop and Lehner, and overall was better than them. I originally thought that down the road we'd have to watch Bishop and Lehner playing well after Andy had retired, I couldn't have imagined that Bishop and Lehner would have to retire due to injuries while Andy is still playing at 41. Yes, I know Lehner hasn't retired yet, but I can't see a 260 pound goalie recover fully from serious hip injuries.

Gustavsson is mediocre and inconsistant, we'll forget about him in a few years.

If Talbot keeps playing well, and the Sens are out of the race, do they trade Talbot at the deadline? What do they get for him? Hopefully there are a couple of desperate teams that want to make a run, that have either bad or injured goaltending.

Mediocre and inconsistent? Gus has a .914 across the year, and if you're talking just November? .934... on a very middling team.

plus the kid is 24, I know everyone wants every goalie prospect to be Carter Hart, Jake Oettinger or Andrei Vasilevskiy, but those 3 are huge outliers in how quickly they entered the league and flourished.

Igor Shesterkin was 25/26 when he finally go the full starters position last year, Ilya Sorokin was 26 last year when he finally got the starters position.

I'd love to still have Gus, even if he wasn't playing as good as he is in Minny, he was essentially what we got for Zibanejad, considering we traded Brassard to Pit for him.

I just want to see one of the young goalies we draft/trade for when they're young, get developed and given a true shot to become a long time starter... I want our Jonathan Quick or Carey Price or Marc-Andre Fleury...

even if they aren't the absolute best goalie in the world, I just want us to develop a goalie that we keep for like 6+ years for once in our franchises history.

 

[bicboi64]

If Talbot keeps playing well, and the Sens are out of the race, do they trade Talbot at the deadline? What do they get for him? Hopefully there are a couple of desperate teams that want to make a run, that have either bad or injured goaltending.

I'd trade him and get what we can.

Unless he wants to re-sign for a very cheap deal, he doesn't add much that we don't already have with Forsberg, plus he's older.

 

[Cosmix]

I don't think there's anything wrong with Talbot being added to the team, but it would have made more sense to get him, in addition to getting a better blueline.

Talbot played behind a blueline that is better than ours so why not get another D to round out our top 4? It's like PD expected Talbot to come in and Shesterkin us into the playoffs.

PD got "his" top 4 D before the end of last season: Hamonic.

Mediocre and inconsistent? Gus has a .914 across the year, and if you're talking just November? .934... on a very middling team.

plus the kid is 24, I know everyone wants every goalie prospect to be Carter Hart, Jake Oettinger or Andrei Vasilevskiy, but those 3 are huge outliers in how quickly they entered the league and flourished.

Igor Shesterkin was 25/26 when he finally go the full starters position last year, Ilya Sorokin was 26 last year when he finally got the starters position.

I'd love to still have Gus, even if he wasn't playing as good as he is in Minny, he was essentially what we got for Zibanejad, considering we traded Brassard to Pit for him.

I just want to see one of the young goalies we draft/trade for when they're young, get developed and given a true shot to become a long time starter... I want our Jonathan Quick or Carey Price or Marc-Andre Fleury...

even if they aren't the absolute best goalie in the world, I just want us to develop a goalie that we keep for like 6+ years for once in our franchises history.

I don't care how we get a good goaltender, via drafting or trade, but we need to get one.

 

[KingAlfie11]

The problem with Dorion in Ottawa is no matter what he does there's a portion of the fan base that will hate everything he does no matter what, do I think we need a new coach and a new gm? absolutely, not because Dorion did a bad job, I think he did a pretty good job actually, I just think that this franchise needs a new voice, a new direction.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Needs to sign Zub asap

 

[CorrectOpinion]

The worst thing about this dork is he trades everyone we develop. Dorion doesn't value depth at all. Imagine if we had Brown, DeMelo and Paul still on the team at the expense of Joseph who is abysmal. Those 3 guys were some of our best during these horrible years.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

The worst thing about this dork is he trades everyone we develop. Dorion doesn't value depth at all. I imagine if we had Brown, DeMelo and Paul still on the team at the expense of Joseph who is abysmal. Those 3 guys were some of our best during these horrible years.

It will feel like winning a cup when he is gone.

we've basically been cheering a hockey idiocracy for the last 7 years.

 

[bert]

Lost Spezza, Alfie, Heatley and pissed off Redden. 2 Failed trades, straw face collapse. Turned a juggernaut into a poo-naut, averaged 2 coach firings a year, the city came to hate the owner under his management and he left us with Pierre Dorion.

The white-man can make you laugh at a cocktail party days for me are over. You gotta do more then pretend to beat up Lindy Ruff - Bryan Murray was 90% performance and he had to be the center of attention, and 10% results.

Seemed great, was a fan of his coaching, hated his GMing

Muckler left him with nothing. Worst GM in sens history until Dorion.

 

[swiftwin]

Muckler left him with nothing. Worst GM in sens history until Dorion.

Whoever comes after Dorion will have a treasure trove of talent to work with.