The Fall of Pierre

[Bileur]

Man, really underscores the poor personnel decisions.

 

[pt_mck]

Man, really underscores the poor personnel decisions.

LAck of pro scouting hurts the sens trades

 

[HSF]

Man, really underscores the poor personnel decisions.

nah NJD are just lucky

LAck of pro scouting hurts the sens trades

terrible GM too...Doesn't take much effort to know that Hamonic is not a top 4 defensemen rn

 

[Loach]

Man, really underscores the poor personnel decisions.

Death by a thousand paper cuts.

 

[Dionysus]

No NHL depth. Trading Paul for Joseph, Brown for a 2nd, and not bringing in a Dman are all odd moves.

Made flashy moves, but no substance to back them up.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Man, really underscores the poor personnel decisions.

Devils could have traded their 1st for DeBrincat, but instead they decided to invest even more in their defense/goaltending and trade far less assets for Marino and Vanecek.

They are a team that has struggled over the years with keeping pucks out of their net and they decided to invest heavily in fixing that issue, and it's paying massive dividends this year.

Dorion decided the Oilers-model was superior and went all offense in the and invested nothing in the defense, and now we can't get out of our zone and can't stop pucks from entering our net.

 

[ksens]

terrible GM too...Doesn't take much effort to know that Hamonic is not a top 4 defensemen rn

This board was full of people telling me that Hamonic was only on the outs in Vancouver because he refused to be vaccinated (because his kid is immunocompromised, smooth brain right there) and not because he was a massive liability for his contract.

Turns out the rest of the league who were laughing at us for trading for him might have been on to something...

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Devils could have traded their 1st for DeBrincat, but instead they decided to invest even more in their defense/goaltending and trade far less assets for Marino and Vanecek.

They are a team that has struggled over the years with keeping pucks out of their net and they decided to invest heavily in fixing that issue, and it's paying massive dividends this year.

Dorion decided the Oilers-model was superior and went all offense in the and invested nothing in the defense, and now we can't get out of our zone and can't stop pucks from entering our net.

Not denying we need another defenseman but we were bottom 10 in goals for last year, we needed a boost in offense too.

 

[bacon25]

No NHL depth. Trading Paul for Joseph, Brown for a 2nd, and not bringing in a Dman are all odd moves.

Made flashy moves, but no substance to back them up.

C. Brown played like 3 games and is now done for the season. So bullet missed there.

 

[Ouroboros]

Not denying we need another defenseman but we were bottom 10 in goals for last year, we needed a boost in offense too.

I think this is a big part of the issue. The Senators needed so many roster improvements to get back to respectability that it probably wasn't feasible for it to be accomplished in one single off-season.

Last summer was the first time in a very long time that the team seemed to make a genuine effort to improve the roster rather than just bring in some trash to limp over the cap floor. They probably should have been putting pieces in place earlier, but it seems like Melnyk never really wanted to authorize that kind of spending. And who knows - maybe he was right not to? Last summer's cash expenditures don't seem to have generated a great return thus far.

It's too bad that some of those early games - when the team actually was playing quite decent - didn't break their way. Now bad habits are really setting in and the negativity is probably insurmountable.

 

[Tuna99]

Any of those "Summer of Pierre" T-shirts still available?

“The Girlfriend” bought them all up

 

[boxbox]

All his moves will end up doing is adding an extra 8-10 points to Ottawa's season total, and this will cost Ottawa the chance to grab one of the 3 juicy prospects that will be available at the draft.

Dating back to 2009, Stanley Cup champions and true Stanley Cup contenders have usually been built off of having top-of-the-draft picks that turn into franchise players.

Drafting 8-12 most years normally won't generate the franchise players that are needed for true contention.

The moves are pretty much why the team is near the bottom. The goalie has definetly cost us at least a dozen points. Giroux and Debricant were supposed to be game changers, they haven't been bad but neither as advertised. I said it from the start people had far too high expectations. Book is still out on Alex as we are technically missing our number center but to expect 40 goals from him would be an insult to Kane, Kane is elite. Alex has had his chances they are just not going inn. But to me the biggest bust are the goalies; like we are not even average when it comes to our goalies...so what do you expect then when your top 4 dman are all in their early 20s.

Injuries always injuries...losing Norris was a major blow to this team...I mean before the injury the team played much better, even games we lost we out played the opposition, poop happens

On a serious note , this has to be the most bipolar fan base ever. I mean when all the moves were made everyone one was happy and signing praise to Dorion. They were good moves, but if every GM knew how every move would work out then what would be the fun in that. He took a chance, most traded players to adjust fully till late in the season and are much better the following.

No shame if we suck, we should suck this year, screw the playoffs if we gonna get bounced early and obvs there is needed upgrades to become really good. Its a team made up of mostly kids, boys becoming man...leassons are best learned this way and true character comes to light. Look how long it took NJ or even Colorado to actually become good...I'd rather we keep stacking prostpects and draft high and become a power house then just a good team on the bubble because we were impatient and rushed to just get into the playoffs.

 

[boxbox]

Devils could have traded their 1st for DeBrincat, but instead they decided to invest even more in their defense/goaltending and trade far less assets for Marino and Vanecek.

They are a team that has struggled over the years with keeping pucks out of their net and they decided to invest heavily in fixing that issue, and it's paying massive dividends this year.

Dorion decided the Oilers-model was superior and went all offense in the and invested nothing in the defense, and now we can't get out of our zone and can't stop pucks from entering our net.

you do realize the devils in the last 10 years made the playoffs once, and have been near the bottom of the standings all the other years so I think the sens a few years in hand before we start comparing moves ... they also magically won the lottery twice in the last few years....if we had a couple 1st overall players on this roster and this was happening my attitude would be totally different....we should consider our selves lucky we got Brady T with the pick we did because hes the closest thing to a franchise player this team has had in a long time, Karlsson was well on his way but that achiles injury might be one of the biggest travesties as far as derailing a players career

d man take much longer to develop and good d man aren't as likely to be available as good forwards...and I don't mean d man as whats considered to be a d man these days which is pretty much a forward playing the dman position, I mean D man that actually play defense...shut players down, play physically ...

How do you know Dorion is not trying to improve that area of the team ? maybe every GM knows that so everyone is asking for over payment as return in potential deals. I know Tyler Myers is not the player he was but a guy like him I think would have helped a lot simply with his experience and by being a big body back there. Well its really not Dorions fault Zaitsev refused the trade..

I am all for giving up high picks and top prospects for established NHL talent but it has to make sense and the team has to display a level of play which would indicate they are ready for the next phase. Which right now they aren't and I pretty sure Chris Pronger in his prime would flip the switch on this team and turn it all around.

 

[Tuna99]

Bryan Murray recommended Pierre Dorion for the job and Melnyck took the advice. Ever since this team fired John Muckler it’s been in disarray.

time to end the tree of Bryan Murray and bring in new blood and a fresh start in management and coaching. Just start over, fire everyone.

 

[boxbox]

Bryan Murray recommended Pierre Dorion for the job and Melnyck took the advice. Ever since this team fired John Muckler it’s been in disarray.

time to end the tree of Bryan Murray and bring in new blood and a fresh start in management and coaching. Just start over, fire everyone.

well Bryan Murray was the last truly experienced GM/COACH this team had... loved that guy

I say time to just demolish the arena and build a new one downtown and truly start with a clean slate

 

[bert]

C. Brown played like 3 games and is now done for the season. So bullet missed there.

No way to know if he would have got hurt here. The premise of trading him knowing Formenton wasn't going to play or atleast having an idea it wasn't likely was just horrible situational management. Refusing to give Paul 3 million a year then trading him for a worse player who they signed for 2.95 a year makes no sense. He wasn't capable of watching these very good players for 4 years just shows how bad he is at pro evaluation. He sucks fire him.

Bryan Murray recommended Pierre Dorion for the job and Melnyck took the advice. Ever since this team fired John Muckler it’s been in disarray.

time to end the tree of Bryan Murray and bring in new blood and a fresh start in management and coaching. Just start over, fire everyone.

Muckler cost this team atleast 1 cup and is debatably the worst GM in sens history. He took over a powerhouse and absolutely destroyed it with terrible drafting an alienating elite players like Hossa and Chara. Dorion giving him a run for his money though.

 

[Tuna99]

well Bryan Murray was the last truly experienced GM/COACH this team had... loved that guy

I say time to just demolish the arena and build a new one downtown and truly start with a clean slate

Lost Spezza, Alfie, Heatley and pissed off Redden. 2 Failed trades, straw face collapse. Turned a juggernaut into a poo-naut, averaged 2 coach firings a year, the city came to hate the owner under his management and he left us with Pierre Dorion.

The white-man can make you laugh at a cocktail party days for me are over. You gotta do more then pretend to beat up Lindy Ruff - Bryan Murray was 90% performance and he had to be the center of attention, and 10% results.

Seemed great, was a fan of his coaching, hated his GMing

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

No NHL depth. Trading Paul for Joseph, Brown for a 2nd, and not bringing in a Dman are all odd moves.

Made flashy moves, but no substance to back them up.

Paul wanted to be paid, Sens we’re not going to meet his contract demands, so instead of losing him for nothing (UFA) they traded him…. Not odd.

Brown made it clear he wanted out of Ottawa, Sens accommodated him with a trade….. not odd.

there are multiple teams searching for a defence man, for example the leafs, who have lost their top three, and no one is giving DMen away…. Not odd.

 

[Big Muddy]

Lost Spezza, Alfie, Heatley and pissed off Redden.

How much of these not resigning the player situations were because the owner didn't want to pony up the money versus the GM?

Paul wanted to be paid, Sens we’re not going to meet his contract demands, so instead of losing him for nothing (UFA) they traded him…. Not odd.

Brown made it clear he wanted out of Ottawa, Sens accommodated him with a trade….. not odd.

there are multiple teams searching for a defence man, for example the leafs, who have lost their top three, and no one is giving DMen away…. Not odd.

Not disagreeing with all of what you stated, but iirc there was some info out there that suggested that Paul wanted $3 m/yr. If that was true, not sure if that was unworkable or unreasonable and looking at what he got from TBL some time later is not relevant.

 

[Tuna99]

How much of these not resigning the player situations were because the owner didn't want to pony up the money versus the GM?

Maybe, you see what happened in Calgary this summer.

Star players move, Heatley went from an All-Star to the most hated man in hockey, Melnyck went from saviour to the most hated man in city history, the summer Spezza moved it was a complete gong show - trading your Captain and the miscommunication. Redden had a NTC and stated he didn’t want to move and Murray embarrassed him in the press.

And Alfie, that just hurt.

It can’t all be on Melnyck, Murray was a master of controlling the media and focusing attention away from him. Murray sold more newspapers then any GM in history and he was a welcome personality for guys like Garrioche who wouldn’t miss a turn to dunk on how boring Jacques martin was. So Murray takes a big part of the blame, even though the media in this city won’t ever go there because he’d drink beer with them

After the summer in Calgary I still don’t know who the owners are. The GM owned it all. And all the players seemed happy with the outcome.

 

[Big Muddy]

Maybe, you see what happened in Calgary this summer.

Star players move, Heatley went from an All-Star to the most hated man in hockey, Melnyck went from saviour to the most hated man in city history, the summer Spezza moved it was a complete gong show - trading your Captain and the miscommunication. Redden had a NTC and stated he didn’t want to move and Murray embarrassed him in the press.

And Alfie, that just hurt.

It can’t all be on Melnyck, Murray was a master of controlling the media and focusing attention away from him. Murray sold more newspapers then any GM in history and he was a welcome personality for guys like Garrioche who wouldn’t miss a turn to dunk on how boring Jacques martin was. So Murray takes a big part of the blame, even though the media in this city won’t ever go there because he’d drink beer with them

After the summer in Calgary I still don’t know who the owners are. The GM owned it all. And all the players seemed happy with the outcome.

Your post, although rambling and disjointed seems to support the premise that players left because Melnyk didn't want to pay them.

And, not sure how we can decide what Calgary did as successful at this time as it's too early. At the moment they are barely (or might be) a last wild card spot. But, they have decided they want to continue to be a "compete now" type of team versus a rebuild. I feel that owners probably had a lot of input on that decision as well. So, likely owners have played a role in both Calgary and Ottawa's situation even though they've decide to implement almost opposite strategies. Owners are the ones with the purse strings ultimately.

Melnyck & Garrioche - no idea what you are attempting to prove but constantly misspelling their names.

 

[Dionysus]

C. Brown played like 3 games and is now done for the season. So bullet missed there.

Can't say that would have happened if he stayed in Ottawa.

 

[Dionysus]

Paul wanted to be paid, Sens we’re not going to meet his contract demands, so instead of losing him for nothing (UFA) they traded him…. Not odd.

Brown made it clear he wanted out of Ottawa, Sens accommodated him with a trade….. not odd.

there are multiple teams searching for a defence man, for example the leafs, who have lost their top three, and no one is giving DMen away…. Not odd.

Turned around and gave that money to Joseph. A worse player, who doesn't fill a role like Paul does.

Brown might have been more likely to stay if his friend Paul had been kept. Only indication I heard Brown wanted to leave was from Garrioch, so that's basically team messaging.

It was obvious to everyone the defense was thin. Can be a hard position to shore up, but if you don't want to suck again, probably something to focus on instead of shuffling around wingers. Should have been done in the off-season.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Turned around and gave that money to Joseph. A worse player, who doesn't fill a role like Paul does.

Brown might have been more likely to stay if his friend Paul had been kept. Only indication I heard Brown wanted to leave was from Garrioch, so that's basically team messaging.

It was obvious to everyone the defense was thin. Can be a hard position to shore up, but if you don't want to suck again, probably something to focus on instead of shuffling around wingers. Should have been done in the off-season.

In the off season, Paul would have become an UFA, and left for nothing

 

[Hale The Villain]

Not denying we need another defenseman but we were bottom 10 in goals for last year, we needed a boost in offense too.

And we got that by lucking into Giroux wanting to come home.

DeBrincat was overkill. Didn't need him nearly as much as help on defense.

As we're seeing, we could have 9 top line forwards and it wouldn't matter if our defensemen can't get the puck out of our zone.