The Fall of Pierre

[Wallet Inspector]

And we got that by lucking into Giroux wanting to come home.

DeBrincat was overkill. Didn't need him nearly as much as help on defense.

As we're seeing, we could have 9 top line forwards and it wouldn't matter if our defensemen can't get the puck out of our zone.

I love Giroux but he's in his mid 30s, ignoring Debrincat just because we did "good enough" getting Giroux is silly.

Our issues with defense is largely a systems/coaching problem.

 

[Xspyrit]

And we got that by lucking into Giroux wanting to come home.

DeBrincat was overkill. Didn't need him nearly as much as help on defense.

As we're seeing, we could have 9 top line forwards and it wouldn't matter if our defensemen can't get the puck out of our zone.

The right play was to extend Nick Paul to also keep Connor Brown, so we'd have a really strong bottom-6 (crucial in today's NHL IMO) and not go after DeBrincat but a Top-4 RHD instead

We could have used the 10th OA pick in 2021 instead of drafting Boucher, we have needed help on RD for the whole rebuild. Heck we could have added the 2022 first which wouldn't have been as high as 7th OA with a more complete defense

Since Formenton is canceled this season, have Greig in his place or if Greig isn't ready, have any other decent NHL 2-way winger (ideal would have been Bjorkstrand. I would have given much more than what he returned)

Could have even hired Motte to make the 4th line stronger since we wouldn't pay 9.0 for DeBrincat

Brannstrom with Zub makes Brannstrom stronger. Since Chabot finally has a proper D partner, we can afford this and Sanderson on the 3rd pair is even better for his rookie season. JBD becomes a regular next season when Hamonic is gone (or we could have saved his salary this season by never acquire him)

Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
LW - Stutzle - Giroux
Paul - Pinto - Brown
Crookshank - Kastelic - Motte
Watson

Chabot - RHD
Brannstrom - Zub
Sanderson - Hamonic
JBD

 

[Hale The Villain]

I love Giroux but he's in his mid 30s, ignoring Debrincat just because we did "good enough" getting Giroux is silly.

Our issues with defense is largely a systems/coaching problem.

Can't believe I'm still having to make this argument after the Sens' performance thus far:

We have 6 top 6 quality forwards - Brady, Stutzle, Drake, Norris, Giroux and Pinto.

We have 3 top 4 quality D - Sanderson, Zub and Chabot, one of whom is potentially walking after this season.

We didn't need a 7th top 6 forward, we needed a defenseman capable of keeping pucks out of our net and advancing the puck to our forwards.

DeBrincat was overkill. He's a great player but we shouldn't re-sign him and use even more money at forward. Need defense and goaltending help badly.

 

[bicboi64]

The right play was to extend Nick Paul to also keep Connor Brown, so we'd have a really strong bottom-6 (crucial in today's NHL IMO) and not go after DeBrincat but a Top-4 RHD instead

We have 6 top 6 quality forwards - Brady, Stutzle, Drake, Norris, Giroux and Pinto.

We have 3 top 4 quality D - Sanderson, Zub and Chabot, one of whom is potentially walking after this season.

We didn't need a 7th top 6 forward, we needed a defenseman capable of keeping pucks out of our net and advancing the puck to our forwards.

Not sure what Dorion think the defense was adequate enough to add a luxury 7th top 6 forward, even if he felt that Pinto wasn't ready.

Its better to have 5 top 6 forwards and 3-4 top 4 D than have 6-7, and only 3 top 4 defenders, one of which is a rookie who might not sustain his level of play the whole season

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Can't believe I'm still having to make this argument after the Sens' performance thus far:

We have 6 top 6 quality forwards - Brady, Stutzle, Drake, Norris, Giroux and Pinto.

We have 3 top 4 quality D - Sanderson, Zub and Chabot, one of whom is potentially walking after this season.

We didn't need a 7th top 6 forward, we needed a defenseman capable of keeping pucks out of our net and advancing the puck to our forwards.

DeBrincat was overkill. He's a great player but we shouldn't re-sign him and use even more money at forward. Need defense and goaltending help badly.

1. We didn't know how good Pinto would be after missing a year.
2. Long term it makes sense getting a 24 year old 40 goal scorer.
3. Having 3 solid top 4 D is usually good enough to be a playoff team, especially if you have a great forward group. Our main issue is DJ's OHL coaching.

 

[Xspyrit]

Not sure what Dorion think the defense was adequate enough to add a luxury 7th top 6 forward, even if he felt that Pinto wasn't ready.

Its better to have 5 top 6 forwards and 3-4 top 4 D than have 6-7, and only 3 top 4 defenders, one of which is a rookie who might not sustain his level of play the whole season

But not only that, the 9.0 we are spending on DeBrincat could have been used on a RHD AND keeping Nick Paul and Connor Brown (over Joseph and Motte I guess)

Paul and Brown were perfect fits on this team and could manatchup vs yone. They were happy here and wanted to stay... until we thought they were expendable

We'd have Nick Paul and Connor Brown filling holes when injuries happen instead of Derick Brassard and Tyler Motte, plus everyone in the right defensive chairs...

 

[coladin]

And we got that by lucking into Giroux wanting to come home.

DeBrincat was overkill. Didn't need him nearly as much as help on defense.

As we're seeing, we could have 9 top line forwards and it wouldn't matter if our defensemen can't get the puck out of our zone.

Still can't score. Last year, Ottawa ranked low in goal scoring. But let's not go out and get goal scorers!

 

[HSF]

And we got that by lucking into Giroux wanting to come home.

DeBrincat was overkill. Didn't need him nearly as much as help on defense.

As we're seeing, we could have 9 top line forwards and it wouldn't matter if our defensemen can't get the puck out of our zone.

Debrincat is not overkill

We need him and Grioux.

Was Marino overkill by NJD when they had Hamilton and Severson? Its okay to have quality depth.


The question shouldn't be do we need debrincat OR a top 4 D....We need both and we should have been able to get both over the past 3 years if we had a good GM

Can't believe I'm still having to make this argument after the Sens' performance thus far:

We have 6 top 6 quality forwards - Brady, Stutzle, Drake, Norris, Giroux and Pinto.

We have 3 top 4 quality D - Sanderson, Zub and Chabot, one of whom is potentially walking after this season.

We didn't need a 7th top 6 forward, we needed a defenseman capable of keeping pucks out of our net and advancing the puck to our forwards.

DeBrincat was overkill. He's a great player but we shouldn't re-sign him and use even more money at forward. Need defense and goaltending help badly.

Pinto is not a top 6 forward rn...

Again its OK to add both Debrincat AND a top 4 forward. TIme for Sens fans to actually demand more and want more.

Its okay to expect your GM to actually make MULTIPLE moves to help the team

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

How can we have so little depth and such a weak prospects cupboard after 7 years of tanking?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

How can we have so little depth and such a weak prospects cupboard after 7 years of tanking?

Winning meaningless games in March and wasting top 10 picks on grinders.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Good points here by Jason York,

The lack of strength up the middle combined with our very marginal d corps and we should really expect near the results we are seeing. As I mentioned in another post the depth took a bigger hit that many of us imagined as well with the loss of Formenton, Paul and Connor Brown.

I was pumped when we traded for Debrincat and I don't lay blame on him but we were missing a lot of ingredients to really be in a position to maximize that acquisition. As an alternative if we upgraded the D corps with a top 4 RD, and hung onto C. Brown. I think we would be in better shape.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I drank some of the Pierre kool-aid this summer after such a long period of depressing nothingness, but you can clearly see the issues with the roster construction at this point and I think we're in Pierre's last year.

Too young in too many prime spots with not enough quality vets insulating them.

Defence has too many holes with a glaring need for at least one quality top 4. Two if they lose Zub.

Goaltending is not the strength as a 1a/1b, but rather two guys that underwhelm and let in softies.

Depth is too weak at almost every position with little in the way of youth forcing their way in at this point.

Coaching is way out of its depth.

This thing is gonna get nuked under new ownership. New management, new coaching, and some significant team personnel moves.

 

[Tuna99]

Its incredible this guy is a GM still. When you look at the circumstances of his extended tenure:

- Owner is to crazy and to cheap to hire an experienced and reputable GM so he goes with the cheap and obedient option in Dorion - owner will use anger and spite to manage the horrid mood of his fanbase to make up for the lack of funds and his GM incompetence.

- Erik Karlsson gets the GM within 1 goal of the Cup finals and the GM is a finalist for GM if the year - maybe he’s not as dumb and unpolished as we all thought he was. He does have a girlfriend after all.

- everyone gets traded, rebuild is the cheapest option forthe cheapest owner in hockey. The man with ‘the girlfriend’ presents a cheap plan and the owner eats it up. Friends.

- everyone is quiting. Some of them weeks into their hiring, some months. Alfie was the first with a quick exit, Chris Kelly, a bunch of presidents, some people who dont like changing their garbages at the office, some guy who really like hot dogs and ginormous tarps. A guy came from France and got fired. Dorion the chaos master actually becomes the steady hand on a sinking ship. HE WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS SHIP, Dido sends Dorion a personal note of support

- owner dying of cancer, no time to make changes in a time like this. Also has some airplane and yacht lawsuits to get to.

- Sens are being sold, stability and cost predictability needed. No changes made while the daughters get their cheque. And who cares anyones, Ryan Reynolds is coming and Dorion will be a bad footnote on this teams history.

 

[BondraTime]

Pierre had a great summer, he picked up two great players (would have assumed any player we traded for would have come signed for 5+ years, but alas.....). Giroux was a layup to be fair.

He also had a terrible summer, doing nothing to address the gigantic, and glaringly obvious, problems with the roster.

 

[Micklebot]

Pierre had a great summer, he picked up two great players (would have assumed any player we traded for would have come signed for 5+ years, but alas.....). Giroux was a layup to be fair.

He also had a terrible summer, doing nothing to address the gigantic, and glaringly obvious, problems with the roster.

D was a clear weakness, but if I'm being honest, I expected it to improve based on pushing guys like Mete, J.Brown, MDZ and Zaitsev out of the picture. Sanderson is a huge addition who I was really hyping up all offseason and he's pretty much come as advertised or better, so why aren't we seeing progress, well part of it is only having a healthy group for the first 7 games.

The other issue is the forwards who we lost were the same guys that helped cover for the weak D group, C.Brown, Paul, Formenton all out for more offensive minded guys, and an injury to Norris.

The way the team is built makes it susceptible to key injuries derailing everything and of course that's what happened. I'm a bit surprised how bad things got but oh well.

 

[BondraTime]

D was a clear weakness, but if I'm being honest, I expected it to improve based on pushing guys like Mete, J.Brown, MDZ and Zaitsev out of the picture. Sanderson is a huge addition who I was really hyping up all offseason and he's pretty much come as advertised or better, so why aren't we seeing progress, well part of it is only having a healthy group for the first 7 games.

The other issue is the forwards who we lost were the same guys that helped cover for the weak D group, C.Brown, Paul, Formenton all out for more offensive minded guys, and an injury to Norris.

The way the team is built makes it susceptible to key injuries derailing everything and of course that's what happened. I'm a bit surprised how bad things got but oh well.

All of those guys are essentially the same as our guys outside of Chabot/Zub/Sanderson.

We definitely got an upgrade, and a huge one, with Sanderson.

Everywhere else it is either status quo, or a bit of a decline (Zaitsev/Holden/Hamonic getting worse as time goes on, as should be expected).

We definitely got injuries, like most teams, even worse than average, I think they are being severely over-attributed to the teams extremely poor structure and roster

We have a very weak group. from top to bottom. We can put up goals, but that comes at the expense of our forwards being very weak defensively, I don't think Norris makes a difference in the grand scheme in that respect.

We are just weak from top to bottom at the D slot. Very poor defensively overall, and poor offensively overall. We atre dressing 3+ guys every night who shouldn't be NHL regulars at this point in time. Fully healthy we have 3 guys who shouldn't.

Our goalies are average at best, and give up demoralizing goals nearly every other game

 

[Micklebot]

We definitely got injuries, like most teams, even worse than average, I think they are being severely over-attributed to the teams extremely poor structure and roster

This year seems to be nuts for injuries on a league level, seems everyone has key injuries.

As for the specific impact they have on us, agree to disagree I guess. I'm not saying we were perfect before getting hit, but the difference between our level of play for the first 6 or 7 games when we were mostly healthy and the last dozen is pretty stark imo. Before, we had breakdowns that cost us games, more recently we seem to be bad the majority of the game.

To me, Chabot underperforming or being injured, along with Zub and Norris being out has really highlighted our lack of depth capable of moving up. We don't have a bottom 6 center who is able to fill in a top 6 spot as much as I thought Pinto could. We don't have a RHD that can fill in for Zub when he's out. I also think Holden has struggled on the right side.

I personally see a team that is more fragile than bad. You look at the way NJD reacted to three goals being waived off, it didn't phase them they just kept coming and playing their game. When we allow a late goal or just a go ahead goal after outplaying the opposition, the wheels fall off and we look deflated. That's not a personnel thing or a system thing, it's a confidence thing. That's not to say there are issues with the personnel or the system, but I think our issues are compounded by other factors.

 

[UglyPuckling]

1. We didn't know how good Pinto would be after missing a year.
2. Long term it makes sense getting a 24 year old 40 goal scorer.
3. Having 3 solid top 4 D is usually good enough to be a playoff team, especially if you have a great forward group. Our main issue is DJ's OHL coaching.

Generally that is true. But Debrincat had a one year contract plus a Qualifying Offer year of $9 m. That trade wasn't a "long term" move. Dorion even said they didn't discuss an extension when they were negotiating the trade. Then, add in that RDs are way more difficult to acquire than a winger and salary cap considerations to the equation. No reason why a winger couldn't be acquired later after a RD was already on board.

Hopefully the new ownership group and new GM (presuming this will happen) will have better luck in what is always a challenging market to acquire a good RD. We also need to have the cap go up over the $83.5 m ceiling that was initially projected. But then again, If the cap does go up, we'll still have to compete with 25 teams or so (approx) who will have more money to spend and who are also looking for a RD of course.

 

[613Hockey]

Has to be time right?

30 percent of this roster aren't NHL players.

Prospect pipeline dry af.

Defence still a mess.

Prodigious waste of money as a budget team.

GM Pierre Dorion needs to wear this failure

It's Time For Pierre Dorion To Own This Failed Season

 

[IceColdOx]

He was THIS close to being on the same team with Giroux. Gives me an excuse to play this.

 

[sennysensen]

At least Pierre hasnt screwed up setting up the team / high picks for the future. He has no ability to assemble the surrounding cast, but that's the easy part if we get competent management. A hell of a young core, just need to surround them with good secondary players.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Still can't score. Last year, Ottawa ranked low in goal scoring. But let's not go out and get goal scorers!

Do you think a coach is going to make DeBrincat suddenly lurch out of what ever this issue he's having? The kid needs to pick up his game a lot. I am all for firing DJ Smith. But I don't think for a second that will help DeBrincat. He needs to work and keep working. He needs to be an asset in all facets of the game, not just offence.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Think it’s probably time for the Winter of Pierre thread, leave this dope thread to the archives.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Failing to address the most glaring hole on our roster is really inexcusable, especially after going after 2 high profile forwards and making it clear we are going to be in competition for a playoff spot.

Especially when Marino got traded for what he did and he fit profile of what we needed to a T.

Can't fault Pierre as much on our current C depth, we lost our number 1 C in Norris.

The biggest issue is the coach, though.

 

[Micklebot]

Think it’s probably time for the Winter of Pierre thread, leave this dope thread to the archives.

I know Vancouver has pretty mild winters but we're almost a month away from that thread. Maybe we could get away with a winter is coming thread ...