The Fall of Pierre

[Tuna99]

Garrioch did say Ottawa had no issue going long-term on Paul, it was always about the AAV for some weird reason. Their stance on that changed with Joseph.

Paul's value also went up following the playoff run.

Regardless though, this was mismanaged by Dorion.

Dorion only wants to commit to being bad in the short term

 

[Tuna99]

After the playoff run when he raised his stock. He was ready to sign 3 million for 4 years.

Weird how Dorion wants playoff performers and he trades Paul and Connor Brown.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Just need to wait out new ownership.

There is a 0% chance Dorion survives an ownership change. That’s inevitable. It’s just a waiting game at this point.

Are you suggesting that as soon as new ownership takes control, the first thing they'll do is fire the GM?

More likely, in my opinion, the new ownership will NOT be up to speed with the organization, and how well or bad it is run, and the new ownership will have a very limited knowledge of the market, the advantages (if any) or disadvantages of a small Canadian franchise and the personnel currently running the franchise.

New ownership will come in, not rock the boat, do their due diligence, get the lay of the land..... and then at some point in the future... most likely the off season, make the needed changes in mangament and the structure of the the franchise.

Weird how Dorion wants playoff performers and he trades Paul and Connor Brown.

Paul refused to sign, so I guess PD should has let him become an UFA and lose him for nothing?
Brown expressed his wish to leave the organization, and it was granted. Guess PD should have forced a disgruntled player, to play for the team.

 

[milkbag]

Are you suggesting that as soon as new ownership takes control, the first thing they'll do is fire the GM?

More likely, in my opinion, the new ownership will NOT be up to speed with the organization, and how well or bad it is run, and the new ownership will have a very limited knowledge of the market, the advantages (if any) or disadvantages of a small Canadian franchise and the personnel currently running the franchise.

New ownership will come in, not rock the boat, do their due diligence, get the lay of the land..... and then at some point in the future... most likely the off season, make the needed changes in mangament

Why would you buy a car without looking under the hood first? A big draw of buying the Senators will be the Lebreton development but part of the due diligence of buying a hockey team would be to get up to speed on the actual team and it's ops, no?

 

[Big Muddy]

Just need to wait out new ownership.

There is a 0% chance Dorion survives an ownership change. That’s inevitable. It’s just a waiting game at this point.

Are you suggesting that as soon as new ownership takes control, the first thing they'll do is fire the GM?

More likely, in my opinion, the new ownership will NOT be up to speed with the organization, and how well or bad it is run, and the new ownership will have a very limited knowledge of the market, the advantages (if any) or disadvantages of a small Canadian franchise and the personnel currently running the franchise.

New ownership will come in, not rock the boat, do their due diligence, get the lay of the land..... and then at some point in the future... most likely the off season, make the needed changes in mangament and the structure of the the franchise.


Paul refused to sign, so I guess PD should has let him become an UFA and lose him for nothing?
Brown expressed his wish to leave the organization, and it was granted. Guess PD should have forced a disgruntled player, to play for the team.

I don't see anywhere in the post that you responded to that said "the first thing they'll do is fire the GM". The rest of what your saying is kind of obvious and they'll probably start with a hire of a president (top guy) so that he can put his team in place. A timeline was not mentioned in the post at all.

In your last paragraph you seem to ignore that the player might not have felt the offer was fair market value. That's an "odd" omission.

 

[Sens Vader]

the final year of this clown

we made it

 

[SensFan4lyfe]

I'm glad this team is losing

We need more talent we simply didnt aquire enough.

We've already been rebuilding we mine as well do it right.

If we get Bedard this year the losing was worth it.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I'm glad this team is losing

We need more talent we simply didnt aquire enough.

We've already been rebuilding we mine as well do it right.

If we get Bedard this year the losing was worth it.

What about the Ottawa Senators' history makes you think we're going to win the lottery lol?

We're gonna pick 8th to 12th like we always do.

 

[SensFan4lyfe]

I dont believe in that

We need to trade our assets get the worst team we possibly can and tank for bedard

trade girioux and derbrindicat get what we can

sell Chabot before we end up eating that contract for years

 

[Big Muddy]

What about the Ottawa Senators' history makes you think we're going to win the lottery lol?

We're gonna pick 8th to 12th like we always do.

Well, we may not win the lottery because odds are usually not great for that kind of thing, but I'd think a 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. overall pick in this deep draft would still be very good. I think we all hope that somehow this season somehow turns out to be successful, but you also have to be pragmatic.

I think there's an important decision to make regarding Debrincat. Are we going to pony up and pay his $9 m Qualifying Offer? I think there's few interesting topics or ideas worth considering. The return from a potential Debrincat trade AND (plus) a very high overall draft pick would add a lot to this team.

Sure, everyone hates adding more time to the rebuild, but it is what it is.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Well, we may not win the lottery because odds are usually not great for that kind of thing, but I'd think a 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. overall pick in this deep draft would still be very good. I think we all hope that somehow this season somehow turns out to be successful, but you also have to be pragmatic.

I think there's an important decision to make regarding Debrincat. Are we going to pony up and pay his $9 m Qualifying Offer? I think there's few interesting topics or ideas worth considering. The return from a potential Debrincat trade AND (plus) a very high overall draft pick would add a lot to this team.

Sure, everyone hates adding more time to the rebuild, but it is what it is.

Admittedly any of the top 3 players in this year's draft would be consensus 1OA in prior years. So it's definitely a good year to pick high.

Makes sense to me to trade Cat sooner rather than later but that would be admitting defeat/failure and Dorion doesn't have the humility for that.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I’ll go Zaitsev and DJ Smith, Holden is on the fringe too this season. Motte and Joseph should be on the 4th line

You suck at math.

 

[Big Muddy]

Admittedly any of the top 3 players in this year's draft would be consensus 1OA in prior years. So it's definitely a good year to pick high.

Makes sense to me to trade Cat sooner rather than later but that would be admitting defeat/failure and Dorion doesn't have the humility for that.

We've had good luck even a bit further down in the draft. For example, Sanderson was a #5 overall, and Zibanejad was #6. And, this is supposed to be one of the best drafts in awhile. But yes, I'll hope for a top 3 pick if that's the situation we find ourselves in.

2nd paragraph - What they do, and the decision they make is really going to be really interesting. I think the timing of purchase of the team by the new ownership group could be important. If they are somehow either in place, or almost in place (in a defacto kind of way) by early summer (prior to July 1 ?), it could be the new ownership calling the shots and making the decision on key personnel. I'd think the new owners would want that & perhaps they could somehow insist on that when the deal is getting finalized.

 

[coladin]

I'll pick on Kastelic as a proxy for the 4th line even though I think he's the only one playing well on the line; Kastelic is the only center on the team with more goals against than for while on the ice 5v5, with three more goals against than for. I'd say that's contributing to the problem, more goals on the PP might help mitigate that but we're 12th in the league in pp%,

Kastelic is 186th out of 236 centers in the league in 5v5 GA/60, that's second worst for centers on the sens (for some reason Stützle is still listed as a LW so I manually added him).

4th line is supposed to give the team some energy and not get scored on, the later has been an issue for ours and getting hemmed in our end has had the opposite of the intended effect for the former. Seems like a relatively easy opportunity for improvement.

Fourth line might not be the sexy target for disdain, but I think you're minimizing their impact, they need to be much better imo.

Wow , I am impressed at the case you built against Kastelic and the 4th line!

As I stated, everyone can be better, but I will continue to minimize it.

The Senators have has 9 empty net opportunities and have failed in every game. Only Giroux scored with the empty net, but it did not result in anything. The 4th line are nowhere near that scenario. The scorers are not scoring when it matters. The NYI is a classic example of that. The first game of the year. DeBrincat. Period. The Philly loss. The key players are not delivering. The stars are not shining, at all. Batherson, Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, Giroux and Chabot have not won a game when it matters (Just DeBrincat, once). And keep in mind the goalies are not making saves when it matters.

Hell, the guy who has been the most clutch has been Pinto, and he got us a point against NJ. He has scored the go ahead goal, or a goal to give the lead 5 times. Game tying goal too.

So yeah, the 4th line's contribution to this season is incredibly trivial, and personally, just minimizes how big of a disappointment the top players have been.

 

[Alfie11]

Garrioch did say Ottawa had no issue going long-term on Paul, it was always about the AAV for some weird reason. Their stance on that changed with Joseph.

Paul's value also went up following the playoff run.

Regardless though, this was mismanaged by Dorion.

To be fair to Dorion, that was before Melnyk passed and the board opened up the coffers. Dorion may have been operating under the idea the budget going forward was going to continue to be limited.

I will stick the inability to fix the defence on him though.

Paul did not want to stay in Ottawa.

He did - just not at a discount rate.

 

[Micklebot]

Wow , I am impressed at the case you built against Kastelic and the 4th line!

As I stated, everyone can be better, but I will continue to minimize it.

The Senators have has 9 empty net opportunities and have failed in every game. Only Giroux scored with the empty net, but it did not result in anything. The 4th line are nowhere near that scenario. The scorers are not scoring when it matters. The NYI is a classic example of that. The first game of the year. DeBrincat. Period. The Philly loss. The key players are not delivering. The stars are not shining, at all. Batherson, Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, Giroux and Chabot have not won a game when it matters (Just DeBrincat, once). And keep in mind the goalies are not making saves when it matters.

So yeah, the 4th line's contribution to this season is incredibly trivial, and personally, just minimizes how big of a disappointment the top players have been.

We're one of the top 10 scoring teams in the league, maybe scoring isn't really the problem?

We have to pull the goalie because we haven't kept the puck out of our net, the 4th line has played an outsized role in goals allowed. I'm not saying they are our main problem, but 5%? That's just nonsense, 4th line represents about 15% of our 5v5 icetime but Kastelic has been on for almost 20% of our 5v5 goals against and less than 10% of our goals for, it's an issue that at bare minimum is equal to their portion of the icetime.

Yes, everyone needs to be better but 4th lines are important too, ours isn't performing where it needs to, sadly thats true for a couple of our lines, we've not gotten what's needed out of pretty much anyone.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Are you suggesting that as soon as new ownership takes control, the first thing they'll do is fire the GM?

More likely, in my opinion, the new ownership will NOT be up to speed with the organization, and how well or bad it is run, and the new ownership will have a very limited knowledge of the market, the advantages (if any) or disadvantages of a small Canadian franchise and the personnel currently running the franchise.

New ownership will come in, not rock the boat, do their due diligence, get the lay of the land..... and then at some point in the future... most likely the off season, make the needed changes in mangament and the structure of the the franchise.


Paul refused to sign, so I guess PD should has let him become an UFA and lose him for nothing?
Brown expressed his wish to leave the organization, and it was granted. Guess PD should have forced a disgruntled player, to play for the team.

Are you suggesting that someone who is paying $800 million for the franchise, dumping another $400 million into an arena is going to do their due diligence and get a lay of the land AFTER they buy it?
lmfao
Are you implying they don’t have hockey people advising them? That if they finish near the bottom of the league they won’t see a coach who has been here 5 years and has done nothing, and they will be such hockey simpletons that they know what to do with the lowest paid GM in the league who has zero success & hires these coaches?

Seriously?

 

[swiftwin]

the final year of this clown

we made it

I thought that was last year?

 

[Sens Vader]

I thought that was last year?

The sale is official now last year was just speculation

 

[Sun God Nika]

I dislike dorion a lot but I agree with letting Paul go. He frustrated me a lot . Want the team to lose games ? Paul plays good. Want to be competitive ? Paul no where to be seen

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I thought that was last year?

Even the most devoted of supporters must realize that this is serious business for Pierre and a bad season re-enforces it even if he did make positive moves last summer. He is going to be in tough to stay around with a new regime, as any GM would.

 

[coladin]

We're one of the top 10 scoring teams in the league, maybe scoring isn't really the problem?

We have to pull the goalie because we haven't kept the puck out of our net, the 4th line has played an outsized role in goals allowed. I'm not saying they are our main problem, but 5%? That's just nonsense, 4th line represents about 15% of our 5v5 icetime but Kastelic has been on for almost 20% of our 5v5 goals against and less than 10% of our goals for, it's an issue that at bare minimum is equal to their portion of the icetime.

Yes, everyone needs to be better but 4th lines are important too, ours isn't performing where it needs to, sadly thats true for a couple of our lines, we've not gotten what's needed out of pretty much anyone.

You aren't paying attention to the italics. Top 10 in scoring. 1st in the league scoring meaningless goals. 1st in the league with smoke/mirror stats.

Buffalo? 1 goal - no goal with an empty net
Toronto? 2 goals - no goal with an empty net
Minny? 2 goals - no goal with an empty net
Flyers? 1 goal - no goal with an empty net - awful PP
NYI? 2 goals - no goals with an empty net - 1/6 but no clutch PP goals to take control of the game in the 2nd
VGK? Awful, awful mistakes by Chabot and DeBrincat lose the game
FLA - awful, awful play by Batherson, Stutzle which lose the game

4th line is not why this team is losing, and are trivial to the plot, but we will agree to disagree

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

Terrifying that Dorion is still circling around Chychrun, that guy is a middle pairing band-aid that’s going to return a kings ransom

 

[swiftwin]

Terrifying that Dorion is still circling around Chychrun, that guy is a middle pairing band-aid that’s going to return a kings ransom

Lots around here are terrified of not making a move for a defenseman.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I suppose.

Personally, I'm in favor of seeing how we can do with

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Zub
Brann/Holden-Hamonic/Holden

 

[bicboi64]

What about the Ottawa Senators' history makes you think we're going to win the lottery lol?

We're gonna pick 8th to 12th like we always do.

I was playing around with tankathon.com and it took like 10+ tries to get a top 3 lotto pick

Reality, fantasy, virtual, we got horrible lotto luck lol