The Fall of Pierre

[CorrectOpinion]

Can someone fall when they were terrible from the beginning?

 

[UglyPuckling]

Ah, SNL. Got it. Thanks.

oh stop it

They could fit in the cap this year if you ship out Zaitsev. Most likely for two 2nds.

Time of the GM to actually do his job

Why are you talking to me?

 

[NewEraGM]

Dorion always has this smirk on his face as if he knows something no one else does. So arrogant…great to see it all blow up in his face. Absolute tire fire in Ottawa again.

To get 95 points they need to play at a 105 point pace from here on out. No playoffs again.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion always has this smirk on his face as if he knows something no one else does. So arrogant…great to see it all blow up in his face. Absolute tire fire in Ottawa again.

To get 95 points they need to play at a 105 point pace from here on out. No playoffs again.

 

[Norris4Norris]

Drafting Chabot, Sanderson, Stutzle (while byfield and lafreniere are struggling he is a point per game), Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Pinto and Greig, signing Giroux and trading for Norris and Debrincat were all good moves and have built a core around which we can compete for many years in the future.

We need to fill out the roster with depth on defense to be a playoff team let alone a contender, because it is a team sport. But to say we have no potential and Dorion did nothing good would not be a fair evaluation.

I think first DJ smith has got to go in place of a veteran defensive minded coach who can teach our strong top forwards how to control the game at both ends of the ice. If new leadership wants to get rid of Dorion then that would be fine, but there have been worse GM's in the league.

 

[BondraTime]

Drafting Chabot, Sanderson, Stutzle (while byfield and lafreniere are struggling he is a point per game), Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Pinto and Greig, signing Giroux and trading for Norris and Debrincat were all good moves and have built a core around which we can compete for many years in the future.

We need to fill out the roster with depth on defense to be a playoff team let alone a contender, because it is a team sport. But to say we have no potential and Dorion did nothing good would not be a fair evaluation.

I think first DJ smith has got to go in place of a veteran defensive minded coach who can teach our strong top forwards how to control the game at both ends of the ice. If new leadership wants to get rid of Dorion then that would be fine, but there have been worse GM's in the league.

Dorion has less than a 0.1% chance of staying on with new ownership, his tenure has been very bad, despite the players that have been brought in. New ownership almost universally place their own guys into management roles almost as soon as they get in.

He's currently the 9th longest tenured GM I believe. GM's don't last long for the most part, and the only reason Dorion is still here is because of well known ownership issues, and an agreement with the devil in Barbados in January 2018.

Take any team in the league, trade away all of their stars, and draft at the top of the draft for 5 years straight, and they will all look good in 5/6 years, regardless of who the GM is.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Drafting Chabot, Sanderson, Stutzle (while byfield and lafreniere are struggling he is a point per game), Tkachuk, Batherson, Formenton, Pinto and Greig, signing Giroux and trading for Norris and Debrincat were all good moves and have built a core around which we can compete for many years in the future.

We need to fill out the roster with depth on defense to be a playoff team let alone a contender, because it is a team sport. But to say we have no potential and Dorion did nothing good would not be a fair evaluation.

I think first DJ smith has got to go in place of a veteran defensive minded coach who can teach our strong top forwards how to control the game at both ends of the ice. If new leadership wants to get rid of Dorion then that would be fine, but there have been worse GM's in the league.

You're giving him credit for the work of the scouting staff. He's said himself that he's no longer head scout and he lets Mann run the draft.

I'm sure he has some input on some of the 1st round picks but it's silly to think he was responsible for Batherson, Formenton, Pinto, etc...

GMs should primarily be judged on trades, signings and the hiring/firing of personnel, and Dorion has been an abject failure in those areas.

 

[swiftwin]

Dorion always has this smirk on his face as if he knows something no one else does. So arrogant…great to see it all blow up in his face. Absolute tire fire in Ottawa again.

To get 95 points they need to play at a 105 point pace from here on out. No playoffs again.

This seems strangely personal for you.

 

[NewEraGM]

This seems strangely personal for you.

Your profile pic seems personal to Pierre Dorion….

 

[PlayItAgain]

Take any team in the league, trade away all of their stars, and draft at the top of the draft for 5 years straight, and they will all look good in 5/6 years, regardless of who the GM is.

Off the top of my head, Buffalo and Edmonton took well past 5/6 years to start looking good. To completely turn around a team in 5/6 years is far from guaranteed

 

[bert]

Off the top of my head, Buffalo and Edmonton took well past 5/6 years to start looking good. To completely turn around a team in 5/6 years is far from guaranteed

They didnt get the head start of trading a bunch of stars first though. I dont know how anyone defends Dorion at this point. It is what it is he failed, his asset management was horrid on every level even this past trade deadline into the summer with Paul and Brown.

Time for some leadership from someone experienced that knows what it takes. Trickles from the top down this organization is dying for a new identity.

 

[PlayItAgain]

They didnt get the head start of trading a bunch of stars first though. I dont know how anyone defends Dorion at this point. It is what it is he failed, his asset management was horrid on every level even this past trade deadline into the summer with Paul and Brown.

Time for some leadership from someone experienced that knows what it takes. Trickles from the top down this organization is dying for a new identity.

Buffalo drafted 2nd overall in 2014. Thats 9 seasons ago and it’s still debatable if they are even good yet. Edmonton took 10 years to start looking good. Come on man. I get that some fans really dislike Pierre but being overly dramatic try to make a point is not helping your argument. To say his asset management has been “horrid at every level” is insanely false. Asset management includes locking up star players for best value to the team. It looks like at least 2 cornerstones of the team are going to be locked up long term as extreme values. Cant stress how important this is. He also did get an unbelievable return for Karlsson. Give credit when its due, is all I’m saying

 

[swiftwin]

Off the top of my head, Buffalo and Edmonton took well past 5/6 years to start looking good. To completely turn around a team in 5/6 years is far from guaranteed

When did Buffalo start looking good?

 

[Golden_Jet]

When did Buffalo start looking good?

First 15 games into each season, after that well........

 

[Loach]

You're giving him credit for the work of the scouting staff. He's said himself that he's no longer head scout and he lets Mann run the draft.

I'm sure he has some input on some of the 1st round picks but it's silly to think he was responsible for Batherson, Formenton, Pinto, etc...

GMs should primarily be judged on trades, signings and the hiring/firing of personnel, and Dorion has been an abject failure in those areas.

One of the things that was said about Edmonton was that they never drafted nhl players outside of the first round. That hurt the rebuild. I look back and see a very similar situation.

 

[Hale The Villain]

They didnt get the head start of trading a bunch of stars first though. I dont know how anyone defends Dorion at this point. It is what it is he failed, his asset management was horrid on every level even this past trade deadline into the summer with Paul and Brown.

Time for some leadership from someone experienced that knows what it takes. Trickles from the top down this organization is dying for a new identity.

No team in recent history has blown it up as big as we did after 2017.

At the time they were traded:

Karlsson - two time Norris winner
Duchene - PPG #1 center
Stone - PPG Selke candidate
Hoffman - 1st/2nd line winger
Pageau - elite 3rd line center
Brassard - 2nd line center
Dzingel - 2nd line winger

It's honestly incredible how weak our pipeline is after trading what amounts to a good top 6 forward group and one of the best D in the league, and finishing bottom 10 for 5 (going on 6) straight years.

 

[bert]

Buffalo drafted 2nd overall in 2014. Thats 9 seasons ago and it’s still debatable if they are even good yet. Edmonton took 10 years to start looking good. Come on man. I get that some fans really dislike Pierre but being overly dramatic try to make a point is not helping your argument. To say his asset management has been “horrid at every level” is insanely false. Asset management includes locking up star players for best value to the team. It looks like at least 2 cornerstones of the team are going to be locked up long term as extreme values. Cant stress how important this is. He also did get an unbelievable return for Karlsson. Give credit when its due, is all I’m saying

The list is so long here. I dont have time to do it but it literally never ends.

I am giving him all the credit he deserves. He has this team yet again in 2nd last in the conference. He has traded players in their prime in which he has next to nothing for them in Stone, Zibanejad, Hoffman. He has given away assets on terrible players like Stepan.

The Karlsson trade is one of the only positive deals in his entire tenure and half that is the luck of San Jose Blowing up after they went to the WCF. His own scouting staff called Norris a max 2nd liner.

His inability to identify pro talent is mind boggling. From Duclair, to Paul to Connor Brown.

This team has a barron prospect pool for how bad they've been.

Its time for him to go. He had his chance he failed.

 

[Hale The Villain]

One of the things that was said about Edmonton was that they never drafted nhl players outside of the first round. That hurt the rebuild. I look back and see a very similar situation.

Our day 2 drafting hasn't been a problem at all - the opposite in fact.

Formenton, Batherson, Pinto and Kastelic are all NHLers found after day 1, and Ostapchuk, Kleven, Jarventie, Sokolov, Crookshank, etc... have potential.

 

[swiftwin]

First 15 games into each season, after that well........

So, the opposite of us?

 

[Big Muddy]

Without really being particularly interested in getting into the middle of this debate, if you are going to compare Ottawa's rebuilds to Buffalo and Edmonton, then its probably fair to look at the other rebuilds that have similar timelines.

So, that would New Jersey, LAK, Anaheim, and whomever else I guess. I am too lazy to do all that work, but I do think you can't just select a small sample and do need to open it up to all the teams with similar situations.

I don't know what the results of that process would be either just to get that out of the way.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The list is so long here. I dont have time to do it but it literally never ends.

I am giving him all the credit he deserves. He has this team yet again in 2nd last in the conference. He has traded players in their prime in which he has next to nothing for them in Stone, Zibanejad, Hoffman. He has given away assets on terrible players like Stepan.

The Karlsson trade is one of the only positive deals in his entire tenure and half that is the luck of San Jose Blowing up after they went to the WCF. His own scouting staff called Norris a max 2nd liner.

His inability to identify pro talent is mind boggling. From Duclair, to Paul to Connor Brown.

This team has a barron prospect pool for how bad they've been.

Its time for him to go. He had his chance he failed.

You take the Karlsson trade out and this rebuild is completely f***ed.

 

[swiftwin]

You take the Karlsson trade out and this rebuild is completely f***ed.

Lmfao, you can't just pick and choose which players count and which ones don't. How does the Leafs rebuild go without Matthews? How does the the Edmonton rebuild go without McDavid? How does the Pens rebuild go without Crosby? How does the Caps rebuild go without Ovechkin? How does the Hawks rebuild go without Kane?

Oh yeah, notice a trend here? They all won the lottery. We actually managed to land high end young players through trades. Find me another team that pulled that off. Go look at what Pittsburgh got for the likes of Jagr, Kovalev, Straka, etc. when they blew it up for their rebuild.

 

[swiftwin]

His inability to identify pro talent is mind boggling. From Duclair, to Paul to Connor Brown.

Sorry, what? We acquired those players. Are you suggesting those players are bad?

 

[bert]

You take the Karlsson trade out and this rebuild is completely f***ed.

All you have to do I see how many players the sens are still paying that arent on the team. I dont know how anyone that actually looks at not only Dorions body of work but the results too can defend him. Its asinine. He is the reason the team is bad this year, he hired the coach he put the team together. Its not an argument.

Yeah the Karlsson trade is great. He was also trading a top 5 player in the league. Id hope it was a good trade.

Sorry, what? We acquired those players. Are you suggesting those players are bad?

Are you serious? He let them all go and no he didnt acquire Paul. Brown he had to take Zaitsev back to get and he didnt even get enough value in a deal for him to dump Zaitsev. He got Duclair on waivers he turned his career around and he let him walk for nothing. They play right in front of him and he cant identify how good they are.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Lmfao, you can't just pick and choose which players count and which ones don't. How does the Leafs rebuild go without Matthews? How does the the Edmonton rebuild go without McDavid? How does the Pens rebuild go without Crosby? How does the Caps rebuild go without Ovechkin? How does the Hawks rebuild go without Kane?

Oh yeah, notice a trend here? They all won the lottery. We actually managed to land high end young players through trades. Find me another team that pulled that off. Go look at what Pittsburgh got for the likes of Jagr, Kovalev, Straka, etc. when they blew it up for their rebuild.

You could perceive my comment as good or bad really, no need to be defensive. That trade is essentially the cornerstone of this rebuild.

I'm just saying, you take that one deal out, regardless of what worked out and what didn't, or any other circumstances, and it's kind of hard to believe how dire it would look. We'd still be in the midst of waiting on lottery picks for a couple more years.