The Fall of Pierre

[Loach]

Senators hoping the No. 15 overall draft pick will be kind once again

OTTAWA - The last time the Ottawa Senators had the 15th overall pick in the NHL draft, they selected a future Norris Trophy finalist. The Senators are back in

thehockeynews.com

Four years ago Dorion, the Senators director of player personnel, convinced Murray to make a deal to jump from 18th to 15th where they selected Karlsson, this year's top scoring defenceman.

Then who is Lowe?! Lmao!

 

[Tuna99]

Making the playoffs every year for as long as they did sort of re-enforces the perception of feeling screwed imo. Heartbreak year after year as opposed to something like the Karlsson years where you're in and out so much that real belief sort of dies out and you just expect disappointment even when they do get in. There was so much hope in that 13 straight years, but a lot of spankings from the Leafs, the Hasek saga likely costing them a cup or two including the big letdown in 07, then rolling with underwhelming goaltending for years with Emery/Gerber deflating the team. It was a long stretch of good, with a lot of sad mixed in. Then Alfie left and it felt like our hearts were ripped out. A few years later the same happens with the 2nd most beloved player along with another group.

Add that all to Micklebot's points and the crap endured under Melnyk's deterioration and I can see why the perception of being screwed exists.

Curse of Alfie exists for this team. Have been lost in management and coaching since his leadership left. And his 2-way play and his demand for honest hockey, if Alfie was here today I’ll we fans would be talking about is what a floater Brady Tkachuk is in his own end, like we did with Spezza. But this coach is fraud of the media coming from the Leafs, so Brady gets to flair defensively because he fights at center ice

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Curse of Alfie exists for this team. Have been lost in management and coaching since his leadership left. And his 2-way play and his demand for honest hockey, if Alfie was here today I’ll we fans would be talking about is what a floater Brady Tkachuk is in his own end, like we did with Spezza. But this coach is fraud of the media coming from the Leafs, so Brady gets to flair defensively because he fights at center ice

The impact of Alfie leaving was massive, immeasurably so. I think that was the beginning of the end for Melnyk in Ottawa.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Anders Forsberg I believe was the one who convinced the team to take Karlsson, but the reality is he convinced Dorion (perhaps had to convince Burda first, I think he was head of European scouting at the time) who then backed him up and they convinced Murray,

Either way, Dorion would have been part of it, but if you want to give credit to the scouts over the GM then you probably need to be consistent and give Mann credit for Pinto instead of Dorion, reality is these decisions are made as a group in the meetings, so theres lots of people to share credit (and blame) if Dorion gets credit for Karlsson, then maybe he gets blame for Cowen, Lee, Ceci ect.

Agree, the point of my reply initially was to respond to the poster that’s said, Karlsson was drafted by the previous regime.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Making the playoffs every year for as long as they did sort of re-enforces the perception of feeling screwed imo. Heartbreak year after year as opposed to something like the Karlsson years where you're in and out so much that real belief sort of dies out and you just expect disappointment even when they do get in. There was so much hope in that 13 straight years, but a lot of spankings from the Leafs, the Hasek saga likely costing them a cup or two including the big letdown in 07, then rolling with underwhelming goaltending for years with Emery/Gerber deflating the team. It was a long stretch of good, with a lot of sad mixed in. Then Alfie left and it felt like our hearts were ripped out. A few years later the same happens with the 2nd most beloved player along with another group.

Add that all to Micklebot's points and the crap endured under Melnyk's deterioration and I can see why the perception of being screwed exists.

Oh for sure, but then again things aren’t black and white, good bad, heaven hell.

The down of Alfie was somewhat mitigated with the make up and return, and now he looks to be on the brink of rejoining the alumni love fest. EK and the crew was sad, but more bitter sweet to me as we finally adopted for the full rebuild instead of patchwork and ‘make the playoffs and hope for the best’. It was time in my opinion, but that doesn’t mean it was a party.

It’s been a rough stretch on the back half of EM’s ownership, no denying that, just suggesting that it is hardly describable as ‘Hell’, and over all, even during our toughest period, we’ve actually had it a lot better than many/most who find themselves in similar situations.

We’re now looking poised to launch into the stratusphere in terms of ownership, building, media production and fame, new management and coaching…. Etc….

Feels a lot more like ‘started from the bottom now we’re here’ than ‘highway to hell’ to me.

 

[DaveMatthew]

The impact of Alfie leaving was massive, immeasurably so. I think that was the beginning of the end for Melnyk in Ottawa.

Especially considering the "ignore Alfie leaving look who we just traded for" move (aka. Bobby Ryan) backfired so quickly.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Oh for sure, but then again things aren’t black and white, good bad, heaven hell.

The down of Alfie was somewhat mitigated with the make up and return, and now he looks to be on the brink of rejoining the alumni love fest. EK and the crew was sad, but more bitter sweet to me as we finally adopted for the full rebuild instead of patchwork and ‘make the playoffs and hope for the best’. It was time in my opinion, but that doesn’t mean it was a party.

It’s been a rough stretch on the back half of EM’s ownership, no denying that, just suggesting that it is hardly describable as ‘Hell’, and over all, even during our toughest period, we’ve actually had it a lot better than many/most who find themselves in similar situations.

We’re now looking poised to launch into the stratusphere in terms of ownership, building, media production and fame, new management and coaching…. Etc….

Feels a lot more like ‘started from the bottom now we’re here’ than ‘highway to hell’ to me.

Ya I don't disagree with most of that. It's been a decent ride, and 96 to ~2010 had a lot of playoff hockey and exciting moments. Karlsson period brought some as well.

And no matter what, things are on the up and up in so many ways now that it's not worth worrying about.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Especially considering the "ignore Alfie leaving look who we just traded for" move (aka. Bobby Ryan) backfired so quickly.

Ya, good point. If Bobby had thrived and the team did better than they did, Alfie leaving and that bridge period might have gone over better, but it was more of the same middle ground.

It was just such a sour note to see him go in general. It never should have gone down that way. I could hardly believe it when I saw the news and I very close to burning every piece of Senators memorabilia I had and just moving on to another team, that's how big that was.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Ya I don't disagree with most of that. It's been a decent ride, and 96 to ~2010 had a lot of playoff hockey and exciting moments. Karlsson period brought some as well.

And no matter what, things are on the up and up in so many ways now that it's not worth worrying about.

It’s funny but the timing is pretty epic for the top end overhaul. The NHL insisting that Reynolds be a part of the winning bid says that they taking this purchase serious in terms not just for Ottawa and the Sens, but for the league. We are poised to have media exposure at a level or beyond the biggest teams in the league, at least for a while, while being a small team wedged between giants.

It’s the underdog story where we finally get our sling….

Waxing poetic of course, but this is a perfect storm of potential positive change, all at a time when our young team is poised to take the next step.

Lots of excitement to hope for in the next year even without considering the team’s play.

Ya, good point. If Bobby had thrived and the team did better than they did, Alfie leaving and that bridge period might have gone over better, but it was more of the same middle ground.

It was just such a sour note to see him go in general. It never should have gone down that way. I could hardly believe it when I saw the news and I very close to burning every piece of Senators memorabilia I had and just moving on to another team, that's how big that was.

Oof, don’t want to get caught giving DBC the Bobby contract if he can’t score. Been there done that and it sucks.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It’s funny but the timing is pretty epic for the top end overhaul. The NHL insisting that Reynolds be a part of the winning bid says that they taking this purchase serious in terms not just for Ottawa and the Sens, but for the league. We are poised to have media exposure at a level or beyond the biggest teams in the league, at least for a while, while being a small team wedged between giants.

It’s the underdog story where we finally get our sling….

Waxing poetic of course, but this is a perfect storm of potential positive change, all at a time when our young team is poised to take the next step.

Lots of excitement to hope for in the next year even without considering the team’s play.

Ya it's a perfect scenario really. All bad blood dropped, new owner, new arena plans, new regime incoming, and a high profile celebrity getting involved. I'm stoked even if this year has been a bit of a letdown.

I was not a fan of his actual GMing, but it's a bit akin to Muckler coming in and the way he talked about their lofty goals and plans with confidence. With Murray, who I adored mind you, it was budget this, and small market that, and it just sort of felt like it kept us thinking and feeling small. We were less than and we were always reminded of it. Puff that chest out even if you don't have the pecs to show off.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Ya it's a perfect scenario really. All bad blood dropped, new owner, new arena plans, new regime incoming, and a high profile celebrity getting involved. I'm stoked even if this year has been a bit of a letdown.

I was not a fan of his actual GMing, but it's a bit akin to Muckler coming in and the way he talked about their lofty goals and plans with confidence. With Murray, who I adored mind you, it was budget this, and small market that, and it just sort of felt like it kept us thinking and feeling small. We were less than and we were always reminded of it. Puff that chest out even if you don't have the pecs to show off.

Totally. An ownership that says that their going to do whatever it takes to put the team in a position to succeed. Reynolds’ group was able to bring some previously unattainable talent to the front office and pitch when they took over, perhaps we’ll see so big names join the front office soon, along with Alfie.

 

[Tuna99]

Totally. An ownership that says that their going to do whatever it takes to put the team in a position to succeed. Reynolds’ group was able to bring some previously unattainable talent to the front office and pitch when they took over, perhaps we’ll see so big names join the front office soon, along with Alfie.

Marc Bergevin is an interesting name - he was GM for most of the time Andluer was part owner of the Habs, he’s Franco-Ontario, he is also probably familiar to Ryan Reynolds now that he works in L.A. and has lots of experience and confidence which this team needs. Understand Canadian markets and all that.

 

[swiftwin]

Marc Bergevin is an interesting name - he was GM for most of the time Andluer was part owner of the Habs, he’s Franco-Ontario, he is also probably familiar to Ryan Reynolds now that he works in L.A. and has lots of experience and confidence which this team needs. Understand Canadian markets and all that.

LOOOOOL! Please not Bergevin, holy shit!

IMO, the perfect scenario would be for new ownership to force hiring Trotz as coach in January (which lines up with Trotz wanting to start coaching in January) when we get new ownership. We all know how Dorion likes to rely on his coach for feedback and potential moves. This would set Trotz up to eventually transition into that GM role that we wants in 2-3 seasons. At that point Dorion's contract would expire, and he could either be let go, or moved into some toothless president/advisory role to keep his talents on the amateur scouting side.

 

[Cosmix]

LOOOOOL! Please not Bergevin, holy shit!

IMO, the perfect scenario would be for new ownership to force hiring Trotz as coach in January (which lines up with Trotz wanting to start coaching in January) when we get new ownership. We all know how Dorion likes to rely on his coach for feedback and potential moves. This would set Trotz up to eventually transition into that GM role that we wants in 2-3 seasons. At that point Dorion's contract would expire, and he could either be let go, or moved into some toothless president/advisory role to keep his talents on the amateur scouting side.

Do it now; fire Dorion and get a better GM to manage the roster going forward. After the change in ownership to an owner who wants to invest to put the best team on the ice, the GM position is the most important. I think great players make great coaches; not the other way around.

 

[Tuna99]

LOOOOOL! Please not Bergevin, holy shit!

IMO, the perfect scenario would be for new ownership to force hiring Trotz as coach in January (which lines up with Trotz wanting to start coaching in January) when we get new ownership. We all know how Dorion likes to rely on his coach for feedback and potential moves. This would set Trotz up to eventually transition into that GM role that we wants in 2-3 seasons. At that point Dorion's contract would expire, and he could either be let go, or moved into some toothless president/advisory role to keep his talents on the amateur scouting side.

Dorion has nothing to mentor Trotz about. Trotz could step in tomorrow and be a better GM then Dorion has been. For that matter, so could I

 

[swiftwin]

Dorion has nothing to mentor Trotz about. Trotz could step in tomorrow and be a better GM then Dorion has been. For that matter, so could I

Lmao, ok, sure.

 

[HSF]

Lmao, ok, sure.

why is that hard to believe?

 

[Tuna99]

Lmao, ok, sure.

I’m being serious. I could hire a better coach, I could handle the message better and I could recognize donkeys in uniforms and get rid of them - for example I wouldn’t sign Micheal Del Zotto

 

[BondraTime]

Dorion isn’t surviving an ownership change obviously.

 

[Loach]

Marc Bergevin is an interesting name - he was GM for most of the time Andluer was part owner of the Habs, he’s Franco-Ontario, he is also probably familiar to Ryan Reynolds now that he works in L.A. and has lots of experience and confidence which this team needs. Understand Canadian markets and all that.

No. Never. Take it back. Take it back now.

 

[swiftwin]

why is that hard to believe?

 

[swiftwin]

Do it now; fire Dorion and get a better GM to manage the roster going forward. After the change in ownership to an owner who wants to invest to put the best team on the ice, the GM position is the most important. I think great players make great coaches; not the other way around.

Because Trotz won't want to come here if we have a fresh new GM and no avenue to transition to GM.

 

[Bileur]

Dorion has nothing to mentor Trotz about. Trotz could step in tomorrow and be a better GM then Dorion has been. For that matter, so could I

What do you think Trotz can just step in the door and immediately strike a perfect pose with a box of Gabriel’s?

I can’t even imagine how many years of pizzas that took to perfect. At the very least he’d need Pierre to help him with the online ordering system, come on this doesn’t happen overnight.

 

[bicboi64]

Please no to Bergevin. He'll trade Chabot for an overaged vet on a horrible contract like Weber. He'll sign one of our vets to a horrid overpriced deal the way he did with Price, and acquire a mediocre second line winger like Drouin for a top prospect.

 

[Silencio]

DJ taking Dorion down with him