Confirmed with Link: Teravainen and Tyler Bertuzzi to the Hawks

[ClydeLee]

Bickell was a 20-30 point forward for 3 years before he had his great playoffs. He also returned to being a 20-30 point forward after his great playoffs. That is what he was in the NHL. A 20-30 point forward. His contract paid him as if he was a top 6 forward.

We couldn't afford to pay a bottom 6 player 4 mil a season so we had to attach Teuvo to move his contract.

If memory serves me correct (and it might not) Bickell was diagnosed with MS during his time in Carolina. He did not have the disease while he was Chicago. Chicago couldn't have traded him if he did.

This has nothing to do with Bickell and him getting MS. MS is a hell of a disease and I wish him and everyone else that has it the best. This is just about Bowman being leveraged to give a bottom 6 forward a huge contract and in the process helped close our Cup window.

He had the disease affecting him in Chicago. It wasn't diagnosed but for multiple years they had no clue what it was. Which seems common for ms from what I've known.

He went to cycles of diagnoses that were wrong from Concussions, then they thought it was vertigo, then he got a tooth removed and they thought it was better, over and over it was an issue but undiagnosed until he said he woke up numb on half his body in Carolina. I guess some can be unaware still, but it is clear he was affected by that his last couple Chicago years.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2015/06/08/bryan-bickell-on-his-absence-i-had-vertigo/ Here he was talking about it affecting him here, but it wasn't until later he learned it was MS. But it absolutely affected him at least on 2015, when he began falling a lot randomly. He still hit a ton, like averaged 5 hits a game, was a net presence like in Seabrooks OT goal vs Nashville and others. He was always great in the playoffs, even 2011/12 too. Like he had 2 goals vs Mike Smith when we barely could score.

 

[Pile]

Bickell was a 20-30 point forward for 3 years before he had his great playoffs. He also returned to being a 20-30 point forward after his great playoffs. That is what he was in the NHL. A 20-30 point forward. His contract paid him as if he was a top 6 forward.

We couldn't afford to pay a bottom 6 player 4 mil a season so we had to attach Teuvo to move his contract.

If memory serves me correct (and it might not) Bickell was diagnosed with MS during his time in Carolina. He did not have the disease while he was Chicago. Chicago couldn't have traded him if he did.

This has nothing to do with Bickell and him getting MS. MS is a hell of a disease and I wish him and everyone else that has it the best. This is just about Bowman being leveraged to give a bottom 6 forward a huge contract and in the process helped close our Cup window.

The three seasons preceding the contract, Bickell paced 42 points per season all while bringing a much needed physical edge and only playing ~13 min per game.

He then had 17 pts (9 goals) in 23 during the 2013 cup run. He was rewarded more ice (15min/game) and the Hawks got great results.

Was it wise to hand out a 4x4 after the run? I think it's far more debatable when looked at in context and not with the knowledge we have now. Especially considering he was a playoff warrior, which every contending team needs.

You're correct he was diagnosed with MS while in CAR but it was pretty clear at the time his play was cratering with Hawks. Now we know why.

Not defending that clown Bowman. He never should've traded Teuvo to move the contract, but I never hated the gamble on extending a player like Bickell considering the info he had available at the time. The 4th year was major miss and ended up being what burned us.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I remember Bickell falling on the ice frequently. His MS was terrible luck and I hope he's doing ok. now.

It was still an unnecessary contract, we should've let him walk. Hopefully since KD has been in the FO through all of this he realizes the pitfalls of giving depth guys term. We can only hope, but his contracts have been awesome so far.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Bickell gave inconsistent effort since he was a teenager and it's frowned upon to mention it because of the MS.

 

[MTU34]

Regardless of how/why the Bickell contract was bad, it NEVER should have cost a player like Teravainen to dump the last year of the contract. I know they got a couple of 2’s in return but keeping Teravainen around would have been significantly more beneficial

 

[Rolo]

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Turbo!

 

[BobbyJet]

Regardless of how/why the Bickell contract was bad, it NEVER should have cost a player like Teravainen to dump the last year of the contract. I know they got a couple of 2’s in return but keeping Teravainen around would have been significantly more beneficial

Beneficial perhaps, but Hawks were at the beginning of their Stan-induced steep decline. There was no stopping of the inevitable, with or without TT on the roster.

Fast forward to 2024: with TT back in Chicago the rebuilding Blackhawks could use another playmaking top-6 guy who plays a responsible game without the puck.

 

[Sinbad]

The two deals that haunt me are trading away Teuvo and Danault and basically ending up with nothing to show for them.

 

[Paul Allen]

The two deals that haunt me are trading away Teuvo and Danault and basically ending up with nothing to show for them.

The Danault trade was by and large the worst Stan trade.

 

[BobbyJet]

You took the words right out of my mouth. How Stan didn't recognize Danault's value spoke volumes.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Stan wasn’t Scotty in critical areas…

 

[Drumman44]

You took the words right out of my mouth. How Stan didn't recognize Danault's value spoke volumes.

How much of that is on the scouting and support staff? If a GM's development people are saying "this kid ain't it" isn't a GM supposed to trust his staff? Or does this go back to the notion that a GM who never played the game before doesn't have the gut to know the difference?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

How much of that is on the scouting and support staff? If a GM's development people are saying "this kid ain't it" isn't a GM supposed to trust his staff? Or does this go back to the notion that a GM who never played the game before doesn't have the gut to know the difference?

If talented amateurs can look at a move and go I don't like it the professionals gotta be ready to wear it.

 

[Drumman44]

If talented amateurs can look at a move and go I don't like it the professionals gotta be ready to wear it.

Fair enough. I think the fact that Mark Kelley is gone and Norm MacIver is back speakes volumes

 

[Paul Allen]

How much of that is on the scouting and support staff? If a GM's development people are saying "this kid ain't it" isn't a GM supposed to trust his staff? Or does this go back to the notion that a GM who never played the game before doesn't have the gut to know the difference?

In this particular case, I’m questioning pro scouting for the abysmal return. Had Weise and Fleischmann played like Vermette the year prior and won a cup I could stomach losing Danault for a repeat.

 

[x Tame Impala]

In this particular case, I’m questioning pro scouting for the abysmal return. Had Weise and Fleischmann played like Vermette the year prior and won a cup I could stomach losing Danault for a repeat.

Exactly. They were just the guys who so happened to be on the trade block that deadline and it felt like the FO was thinking, well we did it last year so we might as well give up huge assets this season too. Even though we were far from a Cup contender in 2015/16, they punted on Danault way too early

 

[jls24]

Exactly. They were just the guys who so happened to be on the trade block that deadline and it felt like the FO was thinking, well we did it last year so we might as well give up huge assets this season too. Even though we were far from a Cup contender in 2015/16, they punted on Danault way too early

From what I remember they were 2/3rds of MTLs 3rd line that was putting up good numbers and we desperately needed depth. We all liked Danault and wanted to keep him but at least I see the thought process.

Of course once we got them they didn't even play together and the whole situation was weird. Flash was decent though.

 

[Paul Allen]

From what I remember they were 2/3rds of MTLs 3rd line that was putting up good numbers and we desperately needed depth. We all liked Danault and wanted to keep him but at least I see the thought process.

Of course once we got them they didn't even play together and the whole situation was weird. Flash was decent though.

They were having decent years in MTL but post 2016 neither amounted to much as players. Fleischmann never played another NHL game and Weise had 18 goals in 165 games. It’s one thing to give up a 1st rd pick that hasn’t been used to make a run on such players, but not an actual shutdown C ready for the show.

 

[jls24]

They were having decent years in MTL but post 2016 neither amounted to much as players. Fleischmann never played another NHL game and Weise had 18 goals in 165 games. It’s one thing to give up a 1st rd pick that hasn’t been used to make a run on such players, but not an actual shutdown C ready for the show.

No disagreement here, it obviously didn't work out haha. I was specifically just talking about the year we brought them in though.

 

[Malaka]

Be the first to say I’m not huge on bertuzzi’s play but he will bring a lot next to bedard. The contract might not age well in year 4 with physical decline of power forwards but it’s fine as well probably have guys like boisvert or a top 10 pick next year on ELC.

From what I remember they were 2/3rds of MTLs 3rd line that was putting up good numbers and we desperately needed depth. We all liked Danault and wanted to keep him but at least I see the thought process.

Of course once we got them they didn't even play together and the whole situation was weird. Flash was decent though.

Think it was also a matter of having great success with developing and finding bottom 6 shutdown centers that would supplement Toews and whatever warm body they could find for Kane through the window. That made danault expendable

 

[BobbyJet]

Be the first to say I’m not huge on bertuzzi’s play but he will bring a lot next to bedard. The contract might not age well in year 4 with physical decline of power forwards but it’s fine as well probably have guys like boisvert or a top 10 pick next year on ELC.


Think it was also a matter of having great success with developing and finding bottom 6 shutdown centers that would supplement Toews and whatever warm body they could find for Kane through the window. That made danault expendable

It's in the past so not worth arguing over but I think you're dead wrong. It was obvious that Danault could play up and down an NHL lineup, he had been groomed in the AHL, and was ready to make a splash in the NHL.... which he did, elsewhere. Typically, Stan could not recognize the potential.

 

[Malaka]

It's in the past so not worth arguing over but I think you're dead wrong. It was obvious that Danault could play up and down an NHL lineup, he had been groomed in the AHL, and was ready to make a splash in the NHL.... which he did, elsewhere. Typically, Stan could not recognize the potential.

Not arguing with you over what danault was capable of but rather my point is actually in agreement — maybe they saw him topping out as depth and being groomed in the way of Kruger/Frolik from what I remember.

 

[Space umpire]

Stan wasn’t Scotty in critical areas…

Actually Stan was a lot like Scotty as a GM. They both sucked at it. (Stan was likely better) Scotty could coach though, no questioning that.

 

[crazyhawk]

I think with the Danault trade it was a case of wanting the immediate gratification of a potential Stanley Cup with bringing Weiss & Fleischmann in. It was a failed gamble but clearly was a case of giving up on the future for the potential to win it all now.