Tavares signing

[Strangle]

Hyman would be nice never wanted him to go band I understand your view point and the sample size well review this when the seasons over

Hyman has improved every year he has played in the league. I’m really happy for him. He deserves it.

He has worked his ass off to become the player he has become, you could only dream about a player developing along hyman’s trajectory.

When he came into the league he had the worst hands I’d ever seen. He’s much much better now and I hope he keeps improving.

This guy deserves the success he’s found for himself

 

[hotpaws]

It’s not “the” fans… it’s a small group of JT despisers, who fancy themselves cap guru armchair GMs who think if Tavares was only making $6 million… they’d win the cup with an extra $5 million… or if we never had JT, $11 million would bring a string of cups.

we'll never know what could have been if we had a competent GM and not spent 11m on Tavares but we do know signing him hasn't accomplished anything

so my question to you is why are you still so thrilled with his signing ? Is it because your a Dubas fan and you need to stand by your man's every decision or is it that you couldn't give a damn about the team winning a cup and are content with stories about a young child and his pj's ?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Yes, there were reports after the fact that Islanders had offered 11x8 and Sharks had offered 13x7.

No proof of either, and especially with the Islanders, it was known he wasn't going to re-sign there, so the offer was just show.

FWIW, there were also reports the Isles upped their offer at the last minute to 11.25 or 11.5x8.

 

[Strangle]

Jt contract has not hurt us but signing Mathews and Marner to more money has limited us to fringe supporting cast. The pandemic cause us the most grief as the cap stayed flat, otherwise we would have been fine and still had a better supporting cast

I keep seeing this argument, or a variation of it and it makes no sense to me. I really don’t understand this contract/cap space/etc argument

If the leafs didn’t sign Tavares, they would have been worse without him.

They leafs did have Tavares and a bunch of cap space while their superstars hadn’t gotten their big pay days yet.

The team didn’t win. They didn’t even come close.

Why anyone would think that a few extra million from cheaper contracts would make a difference are forgetting that this team has already been in that position. They failed. Spectacularly.

They didn’t even get close.

This isn’t a cap issue. It’s not a contract issue. It’s a coaching and players issue.

They have the wrong coach and they have the wrong players

 

[Maple Leaf]

Could have traded Marner for assets
Keep kadri, hyman, bunting
Wow

 

[hotpaws]

I keep seeing this argument, or a variation of it and it makes no sense to me. I really don’t understand this contract/cap space/etc argument

If the leafs didn’t sign Tavares, they would have been worse without him.

They leafs did have Tavares and a bunch of cap space while their superstars hadn’t gotten their big pay days yet.

The team didn’t win. They didn’t even come close.

Why anyone would think that a few extra million from cheaper contracts would make a difference are forgetting that this team has already been in that position. They failed. Spectacularly.

They didn’t even get close.

This isn’t a cap issue. It’s not a contract issue. It’s a coaching and players issue.

They have the wrong coach and they have the wrong players

They had 1 season without M and M on elc's and signing JT didn't fill any of the needs they had so why would they have been worse without JT ? The Islanders weren't worse without him . they were and still are much better since he left .

I do agree the GM gm and coach were also issues as well but having an extra 11m would have gone a long way to building a better team with the right person at the helm and behind the bench .

 

[andora]

Signing was always wrong on timing alone

 

[hotpaws]

FWIW, there were also reports the Isles upped their offer at the last minute to 11.25 or 11.5x8.

yup as soon as the rumors started to come out about how much Dubas was giving the insiders went into overdrive speculating how much more NY and SJ were supposedly offering . lol

good thing neither was rumored to be offering 20% of the cap like the deep pocketed Yotes were going to offer sheet AM for or we'd have been totally f***ed . lol

 

[cannucky]

The team before JT had one of its best seasons ever and made the playoffs for the first time in years .It wasn't just the contract but the betrayal of the process we were asked to support and respect . We were told it would be a five year rebuild , focused on drafting and developing from within to ensure a perennial team with no shortcuts .
Very next year they put Dumbass in the GM chair and he takes an 11m shortcut that not only failed but reset the internal cap empowering Nylander to hold out and Mathews and Marner to demand to be paid on the same level as JT . It's not a couple of million it's 11m for a player we didn't need plus an extra 3.5-4m for Nylander and another 5m + each for Mathews and Marner that's not a couple of million it's 25 million in a 75m cap era .

 

[Stephen]

I keep seeing this argument, or a variation of it and it makes no sense to me. I really don’t understand this contract/cap space/etc argument

If the leafs didn’t sign Tavares, they would have been worse without him.

They leafs did have Tavares and a bunch of cap space while their superstars hadn’t gotten their big pay days yet.

The team didn’t win. They didn’t even come close.

Why anyone would think that a few extra million from cheaper contracts would make a difference are forgetting that this team has already been in that position. They failed. Spectacularly.

They didn’t even get close.

This isn’t a cap issue. It’s not a contract issue. It’s a coaching and players issue.

They have the wrong coach and they have the wrong players

Looking at this team's core and where it is today, I think the core missed some kind of developmental arc early in their careers together, whether that was international play with other superstars from other programs, while guys like Marleau, Tavares, Thornton, Simmonds, Spezza (0 between them) were not the right leadership voices.

 

[cannucky]

I like to get superstar number 1 centres for no assets and just cap space

so yes

You clearly have a very different notion of what a superstar is . When I say superstar it means a player that carries his team to the top while dominating on the stat sheet , ie Gretzky , Lemieux , Crosby etc ...JT is not that and never has been .

 

[francis246]

I keep seeing this argument, or a variation of it and it makes no sense to me. I really don’t understand this contract/cap space/etc argument

If the leafs didn’t sign Tavares, they would have been worse without him.

They leafs did have Tavares and a bunch of cap space while their superstars hadn’t gotten their big pay days yet.

The team didn’t win. They didn’t even come close.

Why anyone would think that a few extra million from cheaper contracts would make a difference are forgetting that this team has already been in that position. They failed. Spectacularly.

They didn’t even get close.

This isn’t a cap issue. It’s not a contract issue. It’s a coaching and players issue.

They have the wrong coach and they have the wrong players

Amen been saying it from day 1. They drafted correctly based on skill level. But the extra intangibles and qualities conducive to a winning hockey team culture is missing. The organization overlooked that completely. The got to e skill without the high compete

 

[-DeMo-]

we'll never know what could have been had we had a competent GM and not spent 11m on Tavares but we do know signing him hasn't accomplished anything

so my question to you is why are you still so thrilled with his signing ? Is it because your a Dubas fan and you need to stand by your man's every decision or is it that you couldn't give a damn about the team winning a cup and are content with stories about a young child and his pj's ?

perhaps because people believe he's a quality player and not one of the top reason were losing in the playoffs? I mean I guess that's not a possible scenario is it?

 

[hotpaws]

perhaps because people believe he's a quality player and not one of the top reason were losing in the playoffs? I mean I guess that's not a possible scenario is it?

if someone doesn't believe using 11m of cap space on a player who didn't improve the team and underperforms in the playoffs more than any of our top guys not a top reason then they really need to take a second/third/fourth look at it again !

 

[-DeMo-]

if someone doesn't believe using 11m of cap space on a player who didn't improve the team and underperforms in the playoffs more than any of our top guys not a top reason then they really need to take a second/third/fourth look at it again !

people believe the Ryan Reaves signing was a good one

 

[hotpaws]

people believe the Ryan Reaves signing was a good one

which isn't nearly as bad as believing Dubas was a genius , lol

he's already working his magic on the pens . tons of cap space to work with and he's driving what was a bubble team right into the toilet . lucky he also traded his 1st for this year or next to really drive home how incompetent he is

 

[therealkoho]

Tavares signing for 11 at a time when Stamkos signed for 9.5 started this mess

Tavares signed 2 years after Stamkos did

Tavares was a UFA changing teams so the total number was paid out over the 7 available years at 11m per for a total of 77m

Stamkos as a UFA was staying home and so was able to sign a contract of 8 years at an AAV of 8.5m for a total of 68m

Net difference per season is 1.5m.

It's interesting to note that it was rumoured, that MLS&E was offering Stamkos a contract with an AAV hovering around the 14m mark, which was coincidentally more than the 13m+ the Sharks were reported to be offering Tavares, two years later.

How did this thread get bumped?

People just can't get enough of that good old self flaggelation!

 

[therealkoho]

people believe the Ryan Reaves signing was a good one

People in Boston you mean?

I really don't think you'll find too many people loving that contract in the Reaves thread. It's kind of like Tavares in that, most LeaFlanders are in the hate the player and hate the contract stage of the honeymoon, but aren't sure what they hate the most?

 

[-DeMo-]

People in Boston you mean?

I really don't think you'll find too many people loving that contract in the Reaves thread. It's kind of like Tavares in that, most LeaFlanders are in the hate the player and hate the contract stage of the honeymoon, but aren't sure what they hate the most?

now? no but when he first signed they did.

 

[Strangle]

They had 1 season without M and M on elc's and signing JT didn't fill any of the needs they had so why would they have been worse without JT ? The Islanders weren't worse without him . they were and still are much better since he left .

I do agree the GM gm and coach were also issues as well but having an extra 11m would have gone a long way to building a better team with the right person at the helm and behind the bench .

Did the extra … $15-$20m with m and m and Nylander and rielly all on cheaper deals help?

 

[hotpaws]

Tavares signed 2 years after Stamkos did

Tavares was a UFA changing teams so the total number was paid out over the 7 available years at 11m per for a total of 77m

Stamkos as a UFA was staying home and so was able to sign a contract of 8 years at an AAV of 8.5m for a total of 68m

Net difference per season is 1.5m.

It's interesting to note that it was rumoured, that MLS&E was offering Stamkos a contract with an AAV hovering around the 14m mark, which was coincidentally more than the 13m+ the Sharks were reported to be offering Tavares, two years later.


People just can't get enough of that good old self flaggelation!

is Tavares retiring after next season ?

and where'd you come up with the 14m , some kid blogger banging away on his laptop in his parents basement ?

 

[hotpaws]

Did the extra … $15-$20m with m and m and Nylander and rielly all on cheaper deals help?

did you actually believe we were going to win the cup in the next couple of years after we tanked and finished dead last ?

do you you also believe it's common for teams that finish last to win while there top drafted kids are on their elc's ?

because if you do then the Hawks with Bedard are way behind where we were , maybe we can send them Johnny so he can show Conner how to get to the promised land

 

[Strangle]

Looking at this team's core and where it is today, I think the core missed some kind of developmental arc early in their careers together, whether that was international play with other superstars from other programs, while guys like Marleau, Tavares, Thornton, Simmonds, Spezza (0 between them) were not the right leadership voices.

Do we know how many championships these guys won prior to the NHL? I think Marner won in the OHL? Anyone else?

 

[Da Cool Rula]

we'll never know what could have been had we had a competent GM and not spent 11m on Tavares but we do know signing him hasn't accomplished anything

so my question to you is why are you still so thrilled with his signing ? Is it because your a Dubas fan and you need to stand by your man's every decision or is it that you couldn't give a damn about the team winning a cup and are content with stories about a young child and his pj's ?

Or maybe Dubai’s should have signed Marner for allegedly the 8m he would’ve taken earlier. or I think Matthew would’ve taken less too…

 

[Arzak]

Willy wants 11. And why shouldn't he want 11? We paid Marner 11, and he's doing better than Marner this year. We paid Tavares 11. He's destroying Tavares. And he's comparable to Matthew's offensive output so why shouldn't he want close to that?

See what happens when you sign some idiot 13.5? He's the bar. "I'm currently out scoring your 13.5 guy...I want my money."

He's more likely to be ok making 9.5 in a dressing room where the top guy only makes 10...but he will be DAMNED if he's asked to only make 9.5 in a dressing room with a guy making 13.5 whom he is currently out performing offensively.

Matthews at 13.5 but performing as a guy who should be paid 10...is a BIG. f***ING. PROBLEM. No exaggeration.

JT @ 11M is bad

But why would you pay RFA Marner $11M ?

Years from now we'll find out Mitch and Kyle had an affair. You can't reasonable explain it otherwise.

"If anyone asks, tell them I'm elite on PK"