Tavares signing

[Sypher04]

your making yourself look foolish by trying to justify AM's cap at a much shorter term than McD's/Eichel so i have to ask , are you defending AM or galaxy brain former GM who has already starting driving his new team into the toilet

and you can ignore whether he was a need or not but anyone with any knowledge of the game could easily see that a team with AM and Kadri as our top 2 centers didn't have a need to overpay a ufa at the same position

no, I’m not, you’re just disregarding the perfectly valid counterpoints I’m putting forth because you don’t like them, which is fine, you aren’t obligated to agree, but it don’t lessen their validity. I’m “defending” the contract because I thought it was fine and I don’t think it’s factual at all to claim Tavares deal cause the price of Matthews. My whole argument has been that Matthews was getting paid regardless and the it’s almost certain the comp he used was McDavid, not JT. My argument has really nothing all to do with Dubas, who I could not care less about defending.

And once again, I never claimed he was a need, so I’m not answering for comments about him not being needed. Thats literally all I said before but in different words

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

no, I’m not, you’re just disregarding the perfectly valid counterpoints I’m putting forth because you don’t like them, which is fine, you aren’t obligated to agree, but it don’t lessen their validity. I’m “defending” the contract because I thought it was fine and I don’t think it’s factual at all to claim Tavares deal cause the price of Matthews. My whole argument has been that Matthews was getting paid regardless and the it’s almost certain the comp he used was McDavid, not JT. My argument has really nothing all to do with Dubas, who I could not care less about defending.

And once again, I never claimed he was a need, so I’m not answering for comments about him not being needed. Thats literally all I said before but in different words

Well I'm not sure I know how to contribute anything..........

I just remember a very large portion of Leafs fans wanting to get rid of Kadri.......and now those same fans are saying why did we need JT when we had Kadri?

You know?

 

[notDatsyuk]

I took PK time away because alot of 1C's don't play on the PK including Matthews who averaged 5 seconds of ice time the last 3 years on the PK.

Player A is traded for or Signed as a UFA which method is usually cheaper from a salary stand point? and yes I believe we could have traded for a top pairing Dmen making in the 6-8 mill range and had the cap room to do so with Tavares signed. I mean besides Karlsson no dmen even makes double digits I don't think most come in at 8-9 mill in the high end range.

So I question PP time and you respond with PK.

And you think you can trade a 4.5M forward for a 6-8M D, but you can't sign one if you only have 11M in cash?

 

[ACC1224]

Well I'm not sure I know how to contribute anything..........

I just remember a very large portion of Leafs fans wanting to get rid of Kadri.......and now those same fans are saying why did we need JT when we had Kadri?

You know?

Seems 'those same fans' are the ones always causing trouble.
Who are they?

 

[francis246]

I get that’s been the narrative, but Matthews salary has nothing to do with what JT was making, and Marner’s salary has everything to do with what Matthews got. Tavares wasn’t the domino that caused their deals

We are saying the same thing. I don’t think Tavares contract had anything to do with the RFA deals.

Marner’s agent literally said he views himself on par with Matthews. I believe Matthews and Eichel were Marner’s comparables. His production was better than Eichels pre ELC

 

[Sypher04]

We are saying the same thing. I don’t think Tavares contract had anything to do with the RFA deals

Apologies, I misinterpreted the second half.

 

[francis246]

Apologies, I misinterpreted the second half.

Yeah I think I was trying to say Tavares deal was a UFA deal so the players can’t use that as justification for theirs

 

[Arzak]

Yeah I think I was trying to say Tavares deal was a UFA deal so the players can’t use that as justification for theirs

*shouldn't ?

They clearly did.

Even as a standalone event - JT signing was so good he remains top 10 in salary. Kadri or no Kadri he came to play 2C and install leadershit .

JT got pictures in 12 different pajamas and is laughing his ass off right now.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah I think I was trying to say Tavares deal was a UFA deal so the players can’t use that as justification for theirs

they can't use them if they go to arb but they can use anything they want during negotiations

 

[hotpaws]

no, I’m not, you’re just disregarding the perfectly valid counterpoints I’m putting forth because you don’t like them, which is fine, you aren’t obligated to agree, but it don’t lessen their validity. I’m “defending” the contract because I thought it was fine and I don’t think it’s factual at all to claim Tavares deal cause the price of Matthews. My whole argument has been that Matthews was getting paid regardless and the it’s almost certain the comp he used was McDavid, not JT. My argument has really nothing all to do with Dubas, who I could not care less about defending.

And once again, I never claimed he was a need, so I’m not answering for comments about him not being needed. Thats literally all I said before but in different words

you said he was production was closer to McD than Eichel's which was wrong and then you used that to try to justify his cap hit at a much shorter term , that's basically your entire argument

also no one is arguing AM wasn't getting paid but if you think his agent was too stupid to use everything to drive up his clients price then being very naive

 

[Hellcat]

most would think it's to help the team win but i'm guessing your right since Johnny's never helped his team win as evidenced by how much better the Islanders have performed since he's left so it must be to get his 30ish goals for the low low price of 11m ,

should have kept Hyman instead for half the price since at least he can get in on the forecheck before he plants himself in the crease

Better performance since he left?

Season	Leafs	Isles
2018-19	100	103
2019-20	81	80
2020-21	77	71
2021-22	115	84
2022-23	111	93
Team Points	484	431

Leafs have been a better team every year but his first year. Clearly you are just a hysterical child throwing out bullshit arguments, I'm done with you and this conversation.

 

[francis246]

they can't use them if they go to arb but they can use anything they want during negotiations

We have anecdotal proof that they didn’t. Marner’s agent went on record saying he compares himself to Matthews and Eichel. So I’m not sure why we keep saying Tavares. They didn’t use his contract. Marner used Eichels 10x8 extension and then Matthews extension.


Matthews used Eichels and McDavids extensions. It’s pretty clear. The Tavares contract was and still is irrelevant.

 

[-DeMo-]

So I question PP time and you respond with PK.

And you think you can trade a 4.5M forward for a 6-8M D, but you can't sign one if you only have 11M in cash?

all #1 center's play on the PP, so yes it should be added, not all #1 C's kill penalties, like I said about 1/3 of the top 30 centers in ice time basically didn't kill penalties but they all played top PP.

I didn't say you had to trade for one but it opens that avenue of trade up incase something becomes available to be traded for, now you have a 2C that you can offer in trade because you just upgraded that position for free. and if you happen to be able to sign a guy in the UFA market great! now you can always move Kadri for picks/prospects in order to free up money if you need it,. it's about giving yourself options. all the while improving your team by adding one of the best offensive producers in the league at the time.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Is everybody still loving this signing? I was against it from day one and it's looking like I was right! This deal is going to be bad! It might even be the reason this Leafs team never wins a cup.

How does it look like you were right?

He's in year 6 of the deal and is still a ppg player.

What are you talking about?

 

[notDatsyuk]

all #1 center's play on the PP, so yes it should be added, not all #1 C's kill penalties, like I said about 1/3 of the top 30 centers in ice time basically didn't kill penalties but they all played top PP.

I didn't say you had to trade for one but it opens that avenue of trade up incase something becomes available to be traded for, now you have a 2C that you can offer in trade because you just upgraded that position for free. and if you happen to be able to sign a guy in the UFA market great! now you can always move Kadri for picks/prospects in order to free up money if you need it,. it's about giving yourself options. all the while improving your team by adding one of the best offensive producers in the league at the time.

And not all #2 centres do. The point is that when you are on the PP (or PK) you are NOT on your regular line.

But that doesn't fit with your narrative, does it?

 

[-DeMo-]

And not all #2 centres do. The point is that when you are on the PP (or PK) you are NOT on your regular line.

But that doesn't fit with your narrative, does it?

my narrative doesn't take only one metric of ice time when considering whose a number 1 center like you seem to. for example if I score 90 points but only get 10 mins of ice time am I a number 4 center?

and every single #1 Center plays top PP minutes hence why I included it. even if you want to only include EVTOI per game he still is in the top 30 in EVTOI among centers in the league over your specific 3 year period. thus making him a #1 Center. and btw by that metric guys like Carter Verhaege/ Joel Erikson Ek/Jaden Schwartz/Chandler Stephenson/Matt Duchene/Brayden Schenn/Nick Schultz all had more EVTOI then Tavares probably because they dont kill penalties or play alot on the PP and haven't come close to Tavares offensive production. none of those guys are real #1 Centers... regardless of there ice time.

 

[hotpaws]

Better performance since he left?

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Leafs[/TD]
[TD]Isles[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2018-19[/TD]
[TD]100[/TD]
[TD]103[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019-20[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD]77[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]115[/TD]
[TD]84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]111[/TD]
[TD]93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Team Points[/TD]
[TD]484[/TD]
[TD]431[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Leafs have been a better team every year but his first year. Clearly you are just a hysterical child throwing out bullshit arguments, I'm done with you and this conversation.

Cool rant but i wasn't comparing the Leafs/Islanders regular season records , i was comparing the Islanders record including the playoffs with and without JT . This would have been obvious if you took a second to read my post instead of just losing it .

I am curious however about why you left out the 2 teams playoff records.