Tavares signing

[Drytoast]

Tavares deal has nothing to do with what Matthews got paid. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themself

You thinking it doesn't is living in fairy tale land.

 

[Hellcat]

Is everybody still loving this signing? I was against it from day one and it's looking like I was right! This deal is going to be bad! It might even be the reason this Leafs team never wins a cup.

How were you right? He has 377 points in 384 games with the Leafs, which puts him 24th over that time, he's fulfilled his part of the bargain. If you were going to say that we dont need an $11m, second line center, that I would agree with.

 

[Sypher04]

You thinking it doesn't is living in fairy tale land.

No, it’s the reality. If you don’t think Matthews was getting paid between Eichel and McDavid on the term he wanted with or without JT here then you’re the one living in fairy tale land

 

[notDatsyuk]

Aren’t you the guy trumpeting to move JT to 3C?

I'm one of many posters here who understand that it may be the best thing for the team going forward.

But why are you changing the subject instead of actually answering questions?

 

[Drytoast]

No, it’s the reality. If you don’t think Matthews was getting paid between Eichel and McDavid on the term he wanted with or without JT here then you’re the one living in fairy tale land

I believe you could have gotten Matthews closer to 10 without Tavares in the locker room making 11 and Matthews out performing him.

 

[hotpaws]

How were you right? He has 377 points in 384 games with the Leafs, which puts him 24th over that time, he's fulfilled his part of the bargain. If you were going to say that we dont need an $11m, second line center, that I would agree with.

he was brought in to help us win the cup or at least go deep so no he hasn't fulfilled his ''part of the bargain''

but i know i know it's not his fault , it's his teammates fault who keep letting him down

 

[Nineteen67]

Tavares deal has nothing to do with what Matthews got paid. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themself

Agents have said they use internal cap structure when signing RFA. That could be because they were negotiating with Dubas and the Leafs, but that’s what they said on Leafs lunch.

 

[Peasy]

Agents have said they use internal cap structure when signing RFA. That could be because the were negotiating with Dubas and the Leafs, but that’s what they said on Leafs lunch.

Agents will use whatever numbers that will get their client the highest contract possible. During Tavares' first season I always just thought to myself, we just gave this guy 11m, and Matthews is already better than him. How can you justify giving him less. And it looks like thats exactly the argument his agent brought to the table.

 

[Nineteen67]

Agents will use whatever numbers that will get their client the highest contract possible. During Tavares' first season I always just thought to myself, we just gave this guy 11m, and Matthews is already better than him. How can you justify giving him less. And it looks like thats exactly the argument his agent brought to the table.

I think it was Nylander's agent on Leafs Lunch that said it. Yes, it change the pay structure of the team. and killed their chances.

 

[Sypher04]

Eichel got 13.33%, McDavid 16.67%. Matthews got 14.64%.

If you don’t think he comes in between those two regardless of JT, I really don’t know what to tell you.

 

[WillyC]

Now you're just being silly.

Aren’t you the guy trumpeting to move JT to 3C?

I'm one of many posters here who understand that it may be the best thing for the team going forward.

But why are you changing the subject instead of actually answering questions?

Not changing the subject at all… answer your question?

Ok, No, I’m not being silly… Tavares is our 1B Center… the fact you see him as 3C is what’s ridiculous.

 

[hotpaws]

Eichel got 13.33%, McDavid 16.67%. Matthews got 14.64%.

If you don’t think he comes in between those two regardless of JT, I really don’t know what to tell you.

maybe you can tell us why you think he should have come between those two but for 3 yrs less term

 

[WillyC]

maybe you can tell us why you think he should have come between those two but for 3 yrs less term

Scoring 4 goals in his NHL debut… finishing 2nd for the Rocket with 40 goals, winning the Calder… winning 2 more Rockets.

Where did you think he was going to land in regards to salary?

 

[hotpaws]

Scoring 4 goals in his NHL debut… finishing 2nd for the Rocket with 40 goals, winning the Calder… winning 2 more Rockets.

Where did you think he was going to land in regards to salary?

he won 2 Rockets before he signed coming off his elc , maybe you should double check that

the cap hit he signed for should have been for the full 8 yr term like the comps you mentioned

so i'll ask you again why you believe AM should have come in between those 2 but for 3 yrs less term

 

[Hellcat]

he was brought in to help us win the cup or at least go deep so no he hasn't fulfilled his ''part of the bargain''

but i know i know it's not his fault , it's his teammates fault who keep letting him down

So then every player except for 20 fail their part of the bargain? Gotchya ... I'm gonna use your logic ... McDavid sux because he has not won a cup... he has not lived up to his expectations ... booo McSucks...

 

[-DeMo-]

If you still can't see the difference in 1C and 2C (and now you're moving the goalposts), there's no point in wasting more of my time.

Do you really believe that using $4.5M would have given us a greater defensive improvement than using $11M?

why would we be restricted to 4.5 million for a defensive improvement? there's no connection that because we signed JT to 11 million doesn't mean we could only spend Kadir's current 4.5 million. the salary cap was 80ish million.

your right about the center discussion because you seem to believe only 1 center on a team can get #1 center ice-time. which is false. like for example in 2012-13 Crosby's TOI/GP was 21:06 and Malkin's was 19:42 so you believe Malkin is a 2C because he got less ice time then Crosby.

 

[hotpaws]

So then every player except for 20 fail their part of the bargain? Gotchya ... I'm gonna use your logic ... McDavid sux because he has not won a cup... he has not lived up to his expectations ... booo McSucks...

I'm glad you got me now explain why he was brought in if not to help advance the team .

was it for his sparkling personality or maybe it was to teach the younguns to squeeze for every dollar they can get ?

 

[WillyC]

I'm glad you got me now explain why he was brought in if not to help advance the team .

was it for his sparkling personality or maybe it was to teach the younguns to squeeze for every dollar they can get ?

He did score the game winner to advance Toronto into the second round… something they haven’t done since JT was playing pee wee hockey.

I know what you’re thinking… but, but, why did it have to be John Tavares?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Not changing the subject at all… answer your question?

Ok, No, I’m not being silly… Tavares is our 1B Center… the fact you see him as 3C is what’s ridiculous.

I asked a question, your response was to change the subject - who's being silly (or just evasive)?

 

[hotpaws]

He did score the game winner to advance Toronto into the second round… something they haven’t done since JT was playing pee wee hockey.

I know what you’re thinking… but, but, why did it have to be John Tavares?

you'll always have the fond memories of Johnny banking one of a foot and the team and Dubas partying like they just won the cup to share with your grandkids

those were good times and i still weep when i think of Dubas not being behind the wheel of Leaf nation slowly driving the team back into the abyss

 

[notDatsyuk]

why would we be restricted to 4.5 million for a defensive improvement? there's no connection that because we signed JT to 11 million doesn't mean we could only spend Kadir's current 4.5 million. the salary cap was 80ish million.

your right about the center discussion because you seem to believe only 1 center on a team can get #1 center ice-time. which is false. like for example in 2012-13 Crosby's TOI/GP was 21:06 and Malkin's was 19:42 so you believe Malkin is a 2C because he got less ice time then Crosby.

The logic I responded to was along the lines of 'we signed JT so we had the Kadri money to spend on D'. I just pointed out that if we hadn't signed JT we would have had Kadri and more money for D.

Last three seasons, Matty 20:44, JT 17:57, Kampf 15:17. JT is closer to Kampf's ice time than to Matty's. By your logic, JT is more correctly called a 3C than a 1C.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He did score the game winner to advance Toronto into the second round… something they haven’t done since JT was playing pee wee hockey.

I know what you’re thinking… but, but, why did it have to be John Tavares?

A couple of posters do like to point that out, without mentioning that it was a dump towards the net from a bad angle , that happened to bounce in off a defender's skate. It was also his only goal in the last 9 playoff games.

Which does not change the fact that we might have had a better overall team and won more if Dubas hadn't signed him,.

 

[Machinae]

If any players were to take the brunt of the blame for the lack of playoff success, it sits squarely on Matthews and Marner. Tavares plays his heart out.

Even from a financial standpoint, it's the RFAs taking too much of the pie on their first extensions that hampered the Leafs' financial structure, not the free top line center signed in UFA for ZERO assets (OR arguably, a 1st and Marleau, but anyone with a brain would trade a 1st for Tavares I think). No matter what the agents say, Leafs had the leverage and Dubas blew it. Even if Marner signs with CBJ, you get 4 1sts and have 2 first line centers to build around and 11 million.

Wingers are DIME-A-DOZEN, the least important position, an astronomical drop off from center and defense. Even today Tavares is a much more important player playing and much more important position than Marner and Nylander.

This franchise spent over a decade with Bozak as top line C and we seriously have to talk about signing Tavares possibly being a mistake? This is so unhinged.

 

[Zybalto]

2x Hart nominee UFA signing Tavares putting up 47 goals, 88 points and a +19 his first season here somehow affected Matthews' contract and that really hurt the team?

Getting into some murky waters here, lol.

I think losing 10 millionish in cap to covid (after all our big signing had a big rise baked in) and rolling with Andersen. Campbell and Samsonov as possible cup winning goalies may be a bigger factor to team success (and these two may be connected)

I can understand the argument Tavares is a guy who leaves you wanting more but the truth is that he has been a fine pickup for the money. Looking at the top paid guys, he's certainly not a Huberdeau/Seguin type disaster and not a complete slam dunk either. He's like a Panarin type signing really. A big UFA pickup (which means a couple exxtra bucks) that pushes your team to the next level and the Leafs have been a powerhouse since they signed him really.

I'm big on Woll but he looks like he's already prone to the injury bug so I'm hoping he comes back and keeps giving the team performance that actually looks like a playoff goalie out there for the first time in years.

 

[egd27]

Eichel got 13.33%, McDavid 16.67%. Matthews got 14.64%.

If you don’t think he comes in between those two regardless of JT, I really don’t know what to tell you.

Not going to mention term ?

Of course JT's contract was used in the negotiations for both 34 & 16