Online Series: Star Wars: The Acolyte on Disney+

[Stylizer1]

The memes are starting to trickle in.

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I like the explanation for this scene that the Jedi misheard their instructions and thought that they were sent to Brendok to search for "metalchlorians."

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

When Grace Randolph of all people who's entire lot in life is being a gigantic shill turns her back on your show, you know you dun goofed something fierce son.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

When Grace Randolph of all people who's entire lot in life is being a gigantic shill turns her back on your show, you know you dun goofed something fierce son.

Can't decide if all these nerds high-fiving each other for hating on a series instead of watching and discussing something they'd judge worth their time is either glorious or pathetic. Certainly fascinating.

 

[Osprey]

Can't decide if all these nerds high-fiving each other for hating on a series instead of watching and discussing something they'd judge worth their time is either glorious or pathetic. Certainly fascinating.

It's as fascinating as someone hanging out in SW threads just to tell the fans that they're nerds and that their beloved franchise is made for children and not that good.

 

[Osprey]

Collider - Are 'The Acolyte's Witches of Brendok Really Dead? Leslye Headland Has a Definitive Answer on Their Fate

The answer is yes, they're dead, but I'm posting it because a few other things stood out to me. All quotes are from Headland.

HEADLAND: Sol has been in every single iteration of the show. Every single time we've worked on the season arc, it was the sisters and then Sol. Sol was always this nexus for the two of them when we started to drill down on, “Who is the quote villain of this story?” Meaning, clearly The Stranger is going to emerge as a viable option; otherwise, we can't tell a story about the Siths-adjacent bad guys in Star Wars. But that means that you have to have a compelling villain. You have to have somebody on the other side of that. So, Sol more and more became the clear character to hang — the emotional betrayal and devastation of the story.

It wouldn't be unlike the example of Vader Force-choking someone in Episode 1 and blowing up a planet in Episode 1 — I know it's Moff Tarkin, but for all intents and purposes, Vader blows up a planet and he Force-chokes somebody. So, the physical intimidation of The Stranger in Episode 5, that's your physical obstacle. In Empire Strikes Back, it's, “I'm your father.” It's the emotional betrayal, it's the emotional violence. So, it felt to us that the father-figure would become the character that slid into the emotionally violent character.

Then it became about crafting, “How do you create a Jedi character that can do something so irrevocably wrong and still, in his heart of hearts, believe that he was atoning for that sin via his love for Osha?”

Apparently, she sees Sol as a villain who is "emotionally violent" and "sinned" by killing Mother Aniseya. I don't think that most fans got that impression at all. She also goes on to say that Sol's fatal flaw is that, unlike Mother Aniseya, he doesn't allow Osha the agency to make the choice to leave for herself, whereas that's not at all how it came across in the episodes.

One of the things that I find to be strange about the popular conception of Star Wars is that it's about good and evil, but over and over again, in the original trilogy and the prequels, it is all about characters toggling between those two things.

She finds it strange that people think that Star Wars is about good and evil... when George Lucas specifically said that it's about "good against evil." She then goes on to suggest that Luke, Han and Lando all pinged back and forth between good and evil. It makes me wonder what unique lens she watched the OT through and when the last time that was (especially since she calls the first movie "Episode 1").

But I think what happens to [Torbin] 16 years later is so devastating. He’s so guilt-ridden. He was just really misguided. He made a really stupid mistake, and it was a mistake with horrible consequences. He really was the match that lit that entire thing.

Uh, I'd say that Mae was the one who lit the match. Even if Torbin hadn't raced back and broken into the temple, Mae still would've burned it down and probably killed everyone, since she also disabled the elevator. His decision actually saved Osha from dying along with them. You'd think that he would've come to that realization at some point in the 16 years after.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

It's as fascinating as someone hanging out in SW threads just to tell the fans that they're nerds and that their beloved franchise is made for children and not that good.

As said before, I think this show is fine for what it is, and I'm mostly enjoying it. Maybe I've said otherwise on my YouTube channel?

(don't confuse your emotions with my motives - I watch all that SW crap because I enjoy it, it doesn't mean I'm supposed to appreciate the idiotic discourses surrounding it)

 

[Osprey]

As said before, I think this show is fine for what it is, and I'm mostly enjoying it. Maybe I've said otherwise on my YouTube channel?

(don't confuse your emotions with my motives - I watch all that SW crap because I enjoy it, it doesn't mean I'm supposed to appreciate the idiotic discourses surrounding it)

Well, calling people "nerds" and "pathetic" and Star Wars "crap" just seems like joining the idiotic discourse. If you truly enjoy the show, why not start discussing it and sharing what you like or dislike about it? That would, honestly, be interesting to read.

 

[Tawnos]

As I see it, Sol’s sin is how he pushed and pushed and pushed without nearly enough understanding of who or what the Coven was. He had no consideration at all for what the repercussions might be within the Coven itself. Master Indara even takes him to task for it in the final scene.

Indara: I warned you not to interfere. I warned both of you.

Sol: I wanted the twins to be safe.

Indara: With no thought to the consequences.

Sol: I had to make a choice.

Except he didn’t have to make a choice. He didn’t have nearly enough information to be making the choice he made. Everything else that happens is the result of this. And his killing of Mother Aniseya is exactly the same thing. He doesn’t understand what she’s doing, but he acts anyway. Mae might have set the book on fire causing the rest of disaster, but that fire probably doesn’t get out of control without the Coven distracted by the Jedi and Padawan. The fire is Mae’s fault. That the fire destroyed the whole fortress is Sol’s. Torbin is who ignites the fight between the Jedi and the Coven (well, him and the hothead on the other side, Koril), but the whole thing still hinges on Sol’s absolute insistence that the girls have to be rescued. The first sin is his and the others don’t happen without it. Come to think of it, this is a space opera version of the worst possible outcomes for violating the Prime Directive. Wrong franchise I guess.

So, acting on assumption with no thought for anyone else’s viewpoint or interests? Regardless of his intentions, it’s the behavior of a villain. In storytelling, a villain does not have to be inherently evil or have totally malicious intent. Some of the best villains in this area of fiction are the same way (Magneto being the top of the list) and in the same way, Sol qualifies the villain in the Brendok segment of this story.

He doesn't qualify as that for the “current” time period of the story. He’s tried to atone and do better because of what happened. At this point, it has all caught back up with him and regret is clearly dictating his actions. He’s still not a hero, but I wouldn’t call him a villain anymore either. He’s just a tragic figure.

I will say, I don’t really understand how Indara breaking the witch-link to Kelnacca killed all of them.

 

[MadDevil]

My guess on the spell breaking thing is it was similar to Luke at the end of TLJ where they expended all their life energy to control Kelnacca, who quite frankly was a complete waste of a character beyond just being an OP fighter. Like a lot of things with this show they've just done a poor job explaining or setting things up. We got basically no insight into the Jedi beyond Sol doesn't have a Padawan and Torbin being homesick. Why does Sol suddenly feel some connection to Osha? Enough of a connection for him to jump to all the wrong conclusions and escalate the situation it into a disaster that ends up with a bunch of dead witches and a cover up? Did Tobin become a Jedi thinking he'd only have to play home games? Why is Kelnacca even there? Are all Wookiees just destined to be space mechanics?

They didn't spend enough time developing any of the characters for the tragedy of the situation to actually hit. It just ended up feeling like a group of dumbass Jedi f***ing up and then using Osha as an excuse to cover up their stupidity.

 

[Osprey]

As I see it, Sol’s sin is how he pushed and pushed and pushed without nearly enough understanding of who or what the Coven was. He had no consideration at all for what the repercussions might be within the Coven itself. Master Indara even takes him to task for it in the final scene.

Indara: I warned you not to interfere. I warned both of you.

Sol: I wanted the twins to be safe.

Indara: With no thought to the consequences.

Sol: I had to make a choice.

Except he didn’t have to make a choice. He didn’t have nearly enough information to be making the choice he made. Everything else that happens is the result of this. And his killing of Mother Aniseya is exactly the same thing. He doesn’t understand what she’s doing, but he acts anyway. Mae might have set the book on fire causing the rest of disaster, but that fire probably doesn’t get out of control without the Coven distracted by the Jedi and Padawan. The fire is Mae’s fault. That the fire destroyed the whole fortress is Sol’s. Torbin is who ignites the fight between the Jedi and the Coven (well, him and the hothead on the other side, Koril), but the whole thing still hinges on Sol’s absolute insistence that the girls have to be rescued. The first sin is his and the others don’t happen without it. Come to think of it, this is a space opera version of the worst possible outcomes for violating the Prime Directive. Wrong franchise I guess.

So, acting on assumption with no thought for anyone else’s viewpoint or interests? Regardless of his intentions, it’s the behavior of a villain. In storytelling, a villain does not have to be inherently evil or have totally malicious intent. Some of the best villains in this area of fiction are the same way (Magneto being the top of the list) and in the same way, Sol qualifies the villain in the Brendok segment of this story.

He doesn't qualify as that for the “current” time period of the story. He’s tried to atone and do better because of what happened. At this point, it has all caught back up with him and regret is clearly dictating his actions. He’s still not a hero, but I wouldn’t call him a villain anymore either. He’s just a tragic figure.

I will say, I don’t really understand how Indara breaking the witch-link to Kelnacca killed all of them.

I don't see what Sol did as a "sin," per se, or see him as the villain. He thought that Osha and Mae were going to be sacrificed because Mae misquoted her mother during the Jedi test. She told Sol and Indara that "everyone must be sacrificed," when I think that what her mother said was "everyone must sacrifice." Headland confirmed in an interview that Mae misquoted her, since 8-year-olds often don't grasp the difference.

If you had reason to believe that a cult was going to sacrifice two children, wouldn't you break in and try to rescue them, especially if you were the police (as the Jedi essentially are) or there was no one who could rescue them in time? To Sol, the consequences of not acting was two children were going to die, so he did think of them. Perhaps he didn't think of how other people could die by trying to save them, but did Indara think about that when she saved Kelnacca? It seems hypocritical to me for her to chide Sol for making a choice to save a single person that could lead to many dying when she made the same choice.

To me, Sol isn't a villain. He's a hero who made a mistake. Arguably, there are no real villains in this situation. It's really a big misunderstanding fueled by good intentions on both sides.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't see what Sol did as a "sin," per se, or see him as the villain. He thought that Osha and Mae were going to be sacrificed because Mae misquoted her mother during the Jedi test. She told Sol and Indara that "everyone must be sacrificed," when I think that what her mother said was "everyone must sacrifice." Headland confirmed in an interview that Mae misquoted her, since 8-year-olds often don't grasp the difference.

If you had reason to believe that a cult was going to sacrifice two children, wouldn't you break in and try to rescue them, especially if you were the police (as the Jedi essentially are) or there was no one who could rescue them in time? To Sol, the consequences of not acting was two children were going to die, so he did think of them. Perhaps he didn't think of how other people could die by trying to save them, but did Indara think about that when she saved Kelnacca? It seems hypocritical to me for her to chide Sol for making a choice to save a single person that could lead to many dying when she made the same choice.

To me, Sol isn't a villain. He's a hero who made a mistake. Arguably, there are no real villains in this situation. It's really a big misunderstanding fueled by good intentions on both sides.

But again, it's not his intentions that are the problem here. Good intentions are not enough. Sol was doing the right thing in his mind, but what he did was wrong.

I'm glad you brought up "the police" in this context, because there is a parallel here to some controversial police incidents. I believe the police do wrong if they shoot someone they thought had a gun, when it turns out that they did not. That officer failed in their duty to so large a degree that they become a villain in the story. It doesn't matter if they really believed their own lives or the lives of the people around them were in danger. The mistake and the results of that mistake are so egregious that they become the bad guy.

Essentially, what we're really talking about here is an anti-villain. Someone whose goals are good and who has plenty of virtues, but whose actions are ultimately bad. But just as an anti-hero is still ultimately a hero, an anti-villain is still ultimately a villain. And that's Sol during those events.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I just don't care about any single character other than Sol or Qimir.

That's the #1 problem with this show. I don't care what happens to anyone other than those 2. Good or bad. Doesn't matter to me.

 

[Osprey]

But again, it's not his intentions that are the problem here. Good intentions are not enough. Sol was doing the right thing in his mind, but what he did was wrong.

I'm glad you brought up "the police" in this context, because there is a parallel here to some controversial police incidents. I believe the police do wrong if they shoot someone they thought had a gun, when it turns out that they did not. That officer failed in their duty to so large a degree that they become a villain in the story. It doesn't matter if they really believed their own lives or the lives of the people around them were in danger. The mistake and the results of that mistake are so egregious that they become the bad guy.

Essentially, what we're really talking about here is an anti-villain. Someone whose goals are good and who has plenty of virtues, but whose actions are ultimately bad. But just as an anti-hero is still ultimately a hero, an anti-villain is still ultimately a villain. And that's Sol during those events.

I disagree. I don't feel that what Sol did was wrong or that taking action when you mistakenly believe that someone is in danger makes you the bad guy. What Mother Aniseya did is equivalent to pulling a gun on a child and firing at her. A police officer witnessing that and killing the adult would be doing his duty and wouldn't be the bad guy in the situation, even if her bullets turned out to be blanks. Just standing there, waiting for her to finish and then observing whether the girl is injured before reacting would not be doing his duty.

I don't think that making a mistake means that you were wrong. A mistake is "an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.," while wrong is "not in accordance with what is morally right or good." Sol might've made a mistake, but didn't do anything wrong.

Besides, Headland said that Mother Aniseya was trying to convert Mae into the Force. That suggests to me that she was basically killing her, since Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin all became Force ghosts when they died and couldn't return from it. So, we might argue that Sol actually saved Mae's life and didn't even make a mistake, much less do anything wrong.

 

[Tawnos]

I disagree. I don't feel that what Sol did was wrong or that anyone who takes action when he mistakenly believes that someone is in danger is wrong or the bad guy. What Mother Aniseya did is equivalent to pulling a gun on a child and firing blanks at her. A police officer witnessing that and killing the adult would be doing his duty and wouldn't be the bad guy in the situation. Just standing there, waiting for her to finish and then observing whether the girl is injured before reacting would not be doing his duty.

I just don't think that making a mistake means that you were wrong. A mistake is "an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.," while wrong is "not in accordance with what is morally right or good." Sol might've made a mistake, but didn't do anything wrong.

Besides, Headland said that Mother Aniseya was trying to convert Mae into the Force. That suggests that she was basically killing her, since Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin all became Force ghosts when they died. Sol arguably saved her life, so you can say that he didn't even make a mistake, much less do anything wrong.

Not every mistake means someone was wrong, but that doesn't mean that a mistake can't also be wrong. It's a person in a position of authority making a life or death decision based on insufficient knowledge that's at issue here. It's their duty to do better than that. The way Sol interfered with the Coven was 100% wrong. That it was a mistake with good intentions behind it doesn't change that wrongness.

I wanted to find what you're talking about with converting Mae into the Force and I found the quote. You're misrepresenting it. What Headland said was "I believe that Aniseya is transforming herself and Mae into the Force in a way that doesn’t kill them." So yeah, he still made a mistake and he made it from exactly the same place of ignorance. So did Indara. And so does the police officer in the situation we were discussing. All three of those situations, they're in the wrong... but on a certain level, it's not an irrevocable or unforgivable wrong.

This all goes back to the original issue. It's not like Sol spent days or weeks with the Coven finding out what they're all about and how they worked. It wasn't a possibility, because it's not like the witches would trust them enough for that, but had he been able to, he might have understood things better. He might have at least understood Aniseya better and the witches might have understood the Jedi. This lack of knowledge is exactly why both Indara and the Jedi Council think it's too dangerous to interfere and they were absolute right to think that way.

I do find it really interesting is the way Headland talks about this stuff. She's absolutely fine with a lot of this being open to our interpretations. I mean, she wrote the thing and even she is only saying that's how she sees it. Star Wars fandom in general doesn't really like ambiguity in storytelling though.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I do find it really interesting is the way Headland talks about this stuff. She's absolutely fine with a lot of this being open to our interpretations. I mean, she wrote the thing and even she is only saying that's how she sees it. Star Wars fandom in general doesn't really like ambiguity in storytelling though.

I was reading your exchange thinking .oO(Are they aware they're discussing right and wrong in the context of a Star Wars story?). You can say it's "badly written" and that "you don't care about the characters" all you want, that in itself is an achievement. I think The Last Jedi did a better job at it, but it wasn't always very subtle and I understand that some of the hardcore fans might have receive it as a troll job (which I don't really think it was).

 

[Tawnos]

I was reading your exchange thinking .oO(Are they aware they're discussing right and wrong in the context of a Star Wars story?). You can say it's "badly written" and that "you don't care about the characters" all you want, that in itself is an achievement. I think The Last Jedi did a better job at it, but it wasn't always very subtle and I understand that some of the hardcore fans might have receive it as a troll job (which I don't really think it was).

There are similarities with TLJ too in that the story relies on different perspectives of the same event.

Personally, I hate the term bad writing. Most of the time, it's just something someone doesn't like. Using the term "bad writing" makes it seem like there's some sort of objective assessment involved of the technical quality of the writing. Sometimes, there legitimately are issues with how the script itself conveys the ideas the writer wants to convey, whether through internal contradictions, insufficient explanation, or poor clarity. A lot of bad writing complaints aren't about those kinds of things though. It's just "I didn't like this, but I wanted to. It can't be my personal preferences so it must be the writer's fault."

When the writer is fine with leaving it open to interpretation, like Headland is leaving it for how the witches actually died, a lot of the time it doesn't especially matter. As in, why does it matter if they died directly from Indara breaking the link or from being knocked out from Indara breaking the link while the fortress collapsed around them. Indara killed them.

For this show, in particular, my main problem has been the way the episodes have ended. It's a pacing problem. Some of those endings are really abrupt.

 

[Osprey]

I wanted to find what you're talking about with converting Mae into the Force and I found the quote. You're misrepresenting it. What Headland said was "I believe that Aniseya is transforming herself and Mae into the Force in a way that doesn’t kill them." So yeah, he still made a mistake and he made it from exactly the same place of ignorance. So did Indara. And so does the police officer in the situation we were discussing. All three of those situations, they're in the wrong... but on a certain level, it's not an irrevocable or unforgivable wrong.

I forgot the last part of that quote, so thanks. It still looked like she was killing her, though, so Sol's response is justifiable, IMO. Also, the victims share some of the blame. Mother Aniseya invaded Torbin's mind, Koril was the first to make an aggressive move with her weapon, Aniseya followed it with something even more aggressive looking and the rest of the witches possessed Kelnacca. There's plenty of blame to go around. That's why it's a tragedy of misunderstanding and overreaction.

I do find it really interesting is the way Headland talks about this stuff. She's absolutely fine with a lot of this being open to our interpretations. I mean, she wrote the thing and even she is only saying that's how she sees it. Star Wars fandom in general doesn't really like ambiguity in storytelling though.

I think that, if Headland wanted to leave it open to interpretation, she wouldn't be so quick to explain how she sees it. Also, technically, she didn't write the episode (or most of the episodes), so she could just be saying that it's how she sees it because someone else wrote it. Of course, the overall story is hers, but it's so inconsistent and nonsensical that it doesn't feel like anyone, including her, cares about the details. For example, the fact that Torbin doesn't understand what they've been doing on Brendok for over a month was likely written by one of the three writers of the episode, not by Headland, and she could probably only try to explain it by how she "sees" it, but it's not a case of ambiguity or leaving it open to interpretation. It's just bad writing.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Personally, I hate the term bad writing. Most of the time, it's just something someone doesn't like. Using the term "bad writing" makes it seem like there's some sort of objective assessment involved of the technical quality of the writing.

It often is exactly that - as a fault for not being processed in sink with the most formulaic structures... I'd have the opposite reaction, and consider bad writing something that is too formulaic (or something that's plainly just bad writing, but I watch some very dumb stuff). For example, I really couldn't stand the first season of Mandalorian. I don't remember if I used "bad writing" per se, but the Littlest Hobo structure was just way too standardized for me. But you're right, again a matter of preferences.

I have nothing against the abrupt endings myself. Raoul Ruiz had some interesting ideas about the old film serials' cliffhangers causing frustration to the viewers expectations, where the next episode would start with modifications to what was told before and you'd have no way of going back.

 

[Osprey]

Raoul Ruiz had some interesting ideas about the old film serials' cliffhangers causing frustration to the viewers expectations, where the next episode would start with modifications to what was told before and you'd have no way of going back.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Exactly!!! Damn, I didn't remember that scene.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I mean which character (who has the ability) *wouldn't* have stabbed Aniseya once she started pouring out like weird force-black-liquid or whatever it was by being absorbed into the Force (or whatever it is)?

I totally get why Sol would stab the heck outta that lady once she started to do some quick-draw Force move in a tense situation.

Also it does amaze me how the writer has set this up so that I think of the Jedi as actual cops - and I hate it. I'm practically saying "but let me see the body cam footage, first" whenever I talk about if the Jedi were within their rights in the show, hah.

 

[Tawnos]

I forgot the last part of that quote, so thanks. It still looked like she was killing her, though, so Sol's response is justifiable, IMO. Also, the victims share some of the blame. Mother Aniseya invaded Torbin's mind, Koril was the first to make an aggressive move with her weapon, Aniseya followed it with something even more aggressive looking and the rest of the witches possessed Kelnacca. There's plenty of blame to go around. That's why it's a tragedy of misunderstanding and overreaction.

I think that, if Headland wanted to leave it open to interpretation, she wouldn't be so quick to explain how she sees it. Also, technically, she didn't write the episode (or most of the episodes), so she could just be saying that it's how she sees it because someone else wrote it. Of course, the overall story is hers, but it's so inconsistent and nonsensical that it doesn't feel like anyone, including her, cares about the details. For example, the fact that Torbin doesn't understand what they've been doing on Brendok for over a month was likely written by one of the three writers of the episode, not by Headland, and she could probably only try to explain it by how she "sees" it, but it's not a case of ambiguity or leaving it open to interpretation. It's just bad writing.

Yes, once events were in motion, the tragedy of misunderstanding and overreaction comes to the fore. It's Sol who puts those events in motion in a totally unnecessary and dangerous way, is my point.

I'm sure Headland is intimately involved with each story beat, not just the overall story.

I mean which character (who has the ability) *wouldn't* have stabbed Aniseya once she started pouring out like weird force-black-liquid or whatever it was by being absorbed into the Force (or whatever it is)?

I totally get why Sol would stab the heck outta that lady once she started to do some quick-draw Force move in a tense situation.

Perhaps someone who knew Aniseya well enough to know that she would NEVER do anything to hurt Mae. Perhaps someone who knew that Aniseya had already decided to let Osha go.

 

[Tawnos]

It often is exactly that - as a fault for not being processed in sink with the most formulaic structures... I'd have the opposite reaction, and consider bad writing something that is too formulaic (or something that's plainly just bad writing, but I watch some very dumb stuff). For example, I really couldn't stand the first season of Mandalorian. I don't remember if I used "bad writing" per se, but the Littlest Hobo structure was just way too standardized for me. But you're right, again a matter of preferences.

I have nothing against the abrupt endings myself. Raoul Ruiz had some interesting ideas about the old film serials' cliffhangers causing frustration to the viewers expectations, where the next episode would start with modifications to what was told before and you'd have no way of going back.

My problem with it is that very few of the people saying "bad writing" really have any real understanding of the storytelling or script writing craft. I know I don't. It veers into a criticism of the process by someone who isn't really qualified to do it, rather than a statement of preference. Basically, "I didn't like it because I didn't enjoy the plot" is a very different statement to me than "I think the plot was poorly written." I've been trying to interpret them the same way since the latter often means the former, but it's been difficult for me to do as an artist myself.

 

[Osprey]

My problem with it is that very few of the people saying "bad writing" really have any real understanding of the storytelling or script writing craft. I know I don't. It veers into a criticism of the process by someone who isn't really qualified to do it, rather than a statement of preference. Basically, "I didn't like it because I didn't enjoy the plot" is a very different statement to me than "I think the plot was poorly written." I've been trying to interpret them the same way since the latter often means the former, but it's been difficult for me to do as an artist myself.

I don't think that you need to be an expert on writing in order to recognize when it's not good. By simply watching a lot of TV shows and movies, you can learn to tell the good from the bad, even if you're not exactly sure why it's good or bad. It's like how you don't need a culinary education to know when a meal is bad, just a lot of experience eating better meals.

Regardless, in this case, people don't just mean that they don't enjoy the plot. The complaints really are about how poorly it's written and the kinds of the things that you wrote earlier that you don't mind people criticizing ("internal contradictions, insufficient explanation, or poor clarity").

 

[Bounces R Way]

Bad writing just stands out particularly with this show. The costumes and sets and action and CGI has mostly been on point. Lighting maybe a little questionable. The acting I definitely wouldn't call good but good writing makes good acting in many instances. Much like TLJ they blew their tension load in the 1st act, there's no mystery to the story arc even if they're trying desperately to recreate it.

TLJ is my least favourite SW movie. Extremely dumb for the space battle/chase to begin that quickly and then send a bunch of characters to the casino or wherever. The Empire Strikes Back has connected and converging story lines that are captivating and sensical. TLJ just threw them together out of convenience.

Kenobi and BoBF suffered from these writing issues too. I really don't think I'm asking for the world here. There's plenty of good material to draw from with Star Wars Legends. A lot of these shows have not been irredeemable or anything but as a viewer I'd like to think I can spot real passion in filmmaking. Not enough of these projects have it and that is not a strictly SW/Disney/Marvel problem nor is it limited to TV and limited series.