Online Series: Star Wars: The Acolyte on Disney+

[kingsfan28]

“I’ll see you in hell, Jedi!”...

 

[HanSolo]

“I’ll see you in hell, Jedi!”...

 

[MadDevil]

“I’ll see you in hell, Jedi!”...

She goes from wanting to kill the Jedi to not needing the master and wanting to surrender to the Jedi to see you in hell Jedi to please mind wipe me master to helping the Jedi hunt down the master. Make up your f***ing mind Mae.

 

[HanSolo]

I don't even really feel like doing spoiler tags here but whatever power through cause what the f***

Spoiler

So the one positive I'll give this is the duel between Qimir and Sol was really good. And I guess the Sol/Mae chase through a ring was pretty visually good.

But the writing is right back in the toilet.

The whole final exchange between Mae and Osha felt really...idk it's one in the morning and I'm not at my most eloquent but it was chaotically written. I can understand Osha not being in the most stable place after what she just did but Mae's dialogue was all over the place. Osha acted too level headed with some of her lines while still seeming at a loss for her direction forward. Her offer to take Mae's place is uttered almost like a sacrifice of at least a concession? That whole scene had me reeling.

What was the purpose of "letting Mae go?"

Why are Osha and Qimir f***ing brain dead? Wipe her memory for what? Why did they leave her to get captured by the Jedi? Why not wipe her mind, if you must, and drop her off with some money on some obscure planet? I don't f***ing understand why they left any of that to chance.

Why the f*** does Sol not just say "yeah I killed your mother, but I thought she was about to do some evil voodoo witchcraft shit to you?" it might not have changed things but maybe Mae would've understood things better.

The blue light saber turning red because of, whatever, Osha's high level dark side power flowing was so f***ing stupid. I don't know the full lore behind how Kyber crystals work per se and I don't really feel like going to find said lore to back up my feeling, but it just felt like a device to visualize Osha's fall to the dark side. But I mean that's not a necessary way to demonstrate that. Killing Sol who was not fighting back is an effective enough tell that she's gone dark. Like Anakin having the Vader helmet reflecting blue then red in Kenobi is an effective use of imagery to highlight the dual presence of Anakin/Vader in a run of dialogue. Something stupid as shit like a Kyber crystal spontaneously changing colors cause Osha was 'breaking bad' is the show taking a mallet and hacking you in the head while asking "do you get it? This is the moment she falls to the dark side! You get it, right?"

I personally don't mind seeing certain members of the Jedi order being duplicitous to maintain the status quo and the Jedi's standing in the High Republic government but they waited until the last episode to give us a character wise to that shit when there was a lot more ground to cover to make this plot element earned/believable. And in the end it just feels like the whole order, down to Sol, are not as morally strong as most of them should be.

The actress for Master Venestra is still so so bad.

I'll echo an above post saying that if that was Plaugeis in that cave, what a shit project for such a notable sith to be revealed in.

In truth, I feel like the Finale sets up plot threads that, on paper, are compelling material for a second season. The problem is, such threads would need to be weaved by competent storytellers and I don't think this current writing staff is anywhere close. Whoever wrote the bones of this story did a good job. Whoever was in charge of fleshing the story out and giving it life and dialogue failed pretty miserably. I hope they skip a season 2 but I get the feeling Disney will try to jam another one down our throats. I more than likely won't bother watching. This is still above Book of Boba Fett for me, but only barely.

Andor S1
Mando S2
Mando S1
Ashoka S1
Mando S3/Kenobi S1
The Acolyte S1
Book of Boba Fett S1

Is how I'd rank them but there's a pretty sizable gap between the first 3 and the next two and and even bigger gap between Ashoka, Mando S3 and Kenobi and the last two.

 

[MadDevil]

I feel more or less about this show how I felt about Obi-Wan and BOBF...some cool moments and fight sequences, but it's missing a compelling and well written story. Definitely at the bottom of the Star Wars snows for me, although I will also say I don't think it's as bad as some people make it out to be. But then I find stuff to enjoy even in bad Star Wars so maybe I'm just a clueless fanboy shill lol

 

[Scandale du Jour]

The criticism isn't inconsistent. You just don't understand it, and don't try to, it seems. Johnjm22 and I are both clearly talking about Luke improving in the years between the movies, not during them.

As for the last part, you said a few days ago that you don't care about most of the characters in this show. Unless you can say the same about the OT, then that seems like proof that the OT's writing was much better than this. It doesn't make sense to say that Star Wars never had good writing when we're presumably all here because we fell in love with the OT's characters and story arcs.

The OT is much better than this show, of course. The genius of the OT is its world building and how it adapts fantasy tropes to fit its world. It is simple yet effective. Full of bad acting, bad dialogue and bad directing... but it works.

Also, let's not put our head in the sand, a lot of Star Wars popularity grew outside of the movies itself. The world is is so immersive and there is so much material in the old EU that most fans over 25 have their own head cannons.

What is inconsistent is the scrutiny some of you guys apply to the new material while being able to accept some of the similar holes the old material has. I guess when something is engaging, one is willing to ignore useless details.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

During this time period Plagueis is canonically an infant,, I'm in awe of that toddler, lad is an absolute unit when he grows up he'll be the size of Galactus or Unicron. ...Then again that didnt stop them from adding Ki Adi Mundi who wasnt even born yet, which just goes to show how much of the EU Harvy Weinstein's former personal assistant actually read and claims to know everything about inside and out. BTW LOL, Wookiepedia just updated Plagius' bio to match this timeline now.

There's not much canonical about the Sith lords and their timelines. Most of it was Legends.

 

[hb13xchamps]

I enjoyed the first season but the storytelling was no doubt a mess with all the flashbacks and all the secrets. They could have told the same story in 4 episodes. I ultimately feel bad for Sol, as he thought he did the right thing, wanted to tell the council what happened and was shot down, and now he’s the scapegoat after his death.

The show now has a whole lot of potential as it moves into a season 2 (if there is one) or maybe a movie? I’m definitely interested in seeing what happens now with Osha, Qimir and Plagueis. That should be the focus of the second season.

 

[kingsboy11]

I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to Star Wars and Marvel type stuff, so I enjoyed it just fine. But the thing that I disliked the most was the pacing. It literally looked and felt like a movie that they cut up into 8 different episodes. If every episode had a consistent 35-40 minute run time, it would've been a lot better. I wouldn't mind having a second season, but I think its going to be an uphill battle with how polarizing its been.

In truth, I feel like the Finale sets up plot threads that, on paper, are compelling material for a second season. The problem is, such threads would need to be weaved by competent storytellers and I don't think this current writing staff is anywhere close. Whoever wrote the bones of this story did a good job. Whoever was in charge of fleshing the story out and giving it life and dialogue failed pretty miserably. I hope they skip a season 2 but I get the feeling Disney will try to jam another one down our throats. I more than likely won't bother watching. This is still above Book of Boba Fett for me, but only barely.

Andor S1
Mando S2
Mando S1
Ashoka S1
Mando S3/Kenobi S1
The Acolyte S1
Book of Boba Fett S1

Is how I'd rank them but there's a pretty sizable gap between the first 3 and the next two and and even bigger gap between Ashoka, Mando S3 and Kenobi and the last two.

This is probably how I'd rank it as well, not worse than Boba Fett, but still near the bottom

 

[Hivemind]

I think the season finished much stronger than it started, but that's not saying a whole lot. Last few episodes were at least entertaining. Plot and storytelling were still mediocre-at-best, but the set pieces and visuals were allowed to carry at times and trimming the cast down did significantly help things. There were enough allusions to the broader universe and connections that it made the finale episode intriguing, at least. I wish that type of intrigue, political scheming, and intricate plotting were more pronounced and integrated into more of the season, rather than being an occasional sprinkle they dropped in.

The writers clearly thought the Brendok mystery was much more compelling than it actually was, and ironically tabled the more interesting mystery surrounding the Sith in its favor.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

This show has potential, so I’ll give it some time if there is another season.

- I like the “Jedi aren’t always good” aspect and that they just wrecked all of the characters I thought would be around for awhile.

The downside is they now need to find some more compelling characters to replace all the interesting bodies that hit the floor.

- That groundhog thing is so f***ing stupid, I can’t even…

- The writing and music need work, but we’ll see if it catches a new stride in season 2.

 

[Hivemind]

My D+ Live Action Rankings:

Andor S1
(Massive Gap)
Mandalorian S1
Mandalorian S2
(Massive Gap)
Ahsoka S1
The Acolyte S1
Kenobi S1
BOBF
Mandalorian S3

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I think the season finished much stronger than it started, but that's not saying a whole lot. Last few episodes were at least entertaining. Plot and storytelling were still mediocre-at-best, but the set pieces and visuals were allowed to carry at times and trimming the cast down did significantly help things. There were enough allusions to the broader universe and connections that it made the finale episode intriguing, at least. I wish that type of intrigue, political scheming, and intricate plotting were more pronounced and integrated into more of the season, rather than being an occasional sprinkle they dropped in.

The writers clearly thought the Brendok mystery was much more compelling than it actually was, and ironically tabled the more interesting mystery surrounding the Sith in its favor.

Yeah I agree with this mostly.

To me Mae, Osha, Brendok are the least interesting parts of this show overall. Qimir, Sol, Vernestra, the political intrigue where the best parts. Too much of the focus on Mae and Osha really held back the show as they were very inconsistent as characters. While I don't agree with most of the ridiculous level of criticism in this thread, I do agree with neither of those characters being given consistent characterizations throughout the season. It was messy and jumped way too all over the place with them.

I think the writers also wrote themselves into a trap by episode around 5, a very common problem in prequels as they threaten to break cannon. They reined it in in the last couple of episodes in damage control and wound it up in really the only way they could have, but they should have been showing signs of it from the word go, instead it looks a little like a panic job to close so loopholes. But I will say I think the ending went pretty ok to this season.

I didn't hate it. But it was a let down based on the hype for it. If it gets a second season I will be watching. With a more focused 2nd season it still has potential, IMO.

 

[HanSolo]

I feel like what they were teasing out with the ending with Qimir and Osha (and you know who) was more of what I was hoping for from this show. Like we've seen Jedi being trained plenty. I think a show closer to Andor in quality about a sith Acolyte being trained in a time where the sith had to operate in obscurity would be a lot more interesting. Like dig deep into sith occult and lifestyle in a scenario like that and don't be afraid to get too dark with it. Maybe I'm asking too much.

You kind of get a speed run of that with Savage Oppress in Clone Wars but I don't think that's enough.

Also

Spoiler

I ended up looking up the changing of the color of a kyber crystal and I guess it *is* canon and it's called "bleeding" a crystal and Osha met all the right conditions to do it under the relatively new lore, but I think it's such an unnecessary idea

 

[BrindamoursNose]

So here's a question that is absurd, but worth a fun discussion...

Spoiler

Do we think Sol is actually dead?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

So here's a question that is absurd, but worth a fun discussion...

Spoiler

Do we think Sol is actually dead?

Spoiler

Yeah, he gone.

 

[Lt Dan]

It's going to be interesting to see where the franchise go from here.

What is Disney going to do to stop the decline? SW is supposed to be one of their crown jewels.

Two part thought. One would think that the message has been well received... but these shows take years to develop and produce and all of this was exacerbated by the strikes.

I am hoping that this turd happened because it was in development before Disney woke up (pun intended) and the stock tanked and possible still was allowed to sneak through because of the extreme lack of new content because of those strikes

My memory is shit because of age and the pandemic but I think the acolyte was first announced back in 2020.
That's hiw long projects take from concept to writing to filming to editing to airing


So... hopefully the projects in development early production look at what's worked (Rogue one, Andor, First 2 seasons of Mando) and what's bombed and put 2 and 2 together

 

[johnjm22]

Two part thought. One would think that the message has been well received... but these shows take years to develop and produce and all of this was exacerbated by the strikes.

I am hoping that this turd happened because it was in development before Disney woke up (pun intended) and the stock tanked and possible still was allowed to sneak through because of the extreme lack of new content because of those strikes

My memory is shit because of age and the pandemic but I think the acolyte was first announced back in 2020.
That's hiw long projects take from concept to writing to filming to editing to airing


So... hopefully the projects in development early production look at what's worked (Rogue one, Andor, First 2 seasons of Mando) and what's bombed and put 2 and 2 together

When Bob Iger came back, one of the first things he said/implied was "Quality over quantity" and "Reducing messaging."

I think that's the right approach. One of the biggest issues with Disney Star Wars is they put out too much stuff. Similar issue with the MCU.

 

[Lt Dan]

When Bob Iger came back, one of the first things he said/implied was "Quality over quantity" and "Reducing messaging."

I think that's the right approach. One of the biggest issues with Disney Star Wars is they put out too much stuff. Similar issue with the MCU.

Agreed

I think one of the reasons for so much quantity early on was D+ mainly getting exclusive content to drive up subscriptions


Hopefully those f***s have learned....

 

[LemonSauceD]

Trash series. Holy shit.

 

[Jovavic]

Also, squid games ‘ acting was bad

I read that he learned English for this show so I won't shit on his performance, he was fine.

I haven't watched all of the SW shows but it was better than Boba Fett, but not by much.

 

[Osprey]

Spoiler

It seems rather convenient that Sol didn't bother to take away the pip droid off of Mae and that unlocking one wrist restraint unlocked both. Then, he was just about to tell her the truth about her and her sister and she tazed him before she could hear the answer (because the writers weren't ready for us to hear)... but, later, she seemed ready to forgive him if he simply told the truth.

Previously, Bazil was suspicious of Mae, even attacked her and seemingly told Sol so that he could stun her. As soon as she woke up and she escaped, this same Bazil sabotaged the ship so that she could get away. On top of that, Sol saw him doing it and then still left him in charge of the ship after he landed.

It seems convenient that the elevator still had power, especially when the temple's generator was destroyed 16 years ago.

Vernestra and the other Jedi got from Coruscant to Brendok in seemingly less than an hour, even though it's well established that it takes several days, at least, to get from the Core worlds to the Outer Rim. This makes the universe feel very small, besides just breaking lore.

It made no sense for Osha to kill her former master and father figure just because he admitted to killing her mother, especially with him showing regret and without wanting to hear the details. Also, Osha had only ever shown the simplest and most passive of Force abilities (like sensing that someone was in danger), and certainly not dark side abilities. Being able to Force choke just came out of nowhere.

Also, the idea that someone with minimal Force ability, much less dark side ability, could change the color of a lightsaber without even meaning to, as if it's a mood ring, is really stupid. Anakin willingly chose the dark side and even slaughtered a village and a bunch of children, but his lightsaber didn't turn red because of it.

The girls wept because they were together again and, just two minutes later, agreed to have their bond broken and one of their memories wiped. And they agreed to it simply because the Jedi would use Mae to find Osha and Qimir, so why not take her with them instead of leaving her behind to be captured? Then, Osha told her that she'd come find her. First of all, there's no need to come find her if she no longer remembers you, and, second, you wouldn't need to if you didn't leave her to be captured now. It's just so nonsensical.

I thought that Osha turning evil and Mae becoming good was too stupid to ever happen. I underestimated Leslye Headland... again.

Finally, the Yoda cameo just seemed pointless except for fan service and trying to stoke interest in a second season, since we know that he can't find out about the Sith.

This is easily the worst of all of the Star Wars live action series As bad as Boba Fett and Kenobi were, at least they felt a little like Star Wars, had more coherent plots and didn't have quite so many stupid things per episode. I think that people just remember how disappointing they were after the first two seasons of The Mandalorian and aren't quite as disappointed with this show because expectations are so much lower now than they were 3 years ago. I suspect that most people would put them ahead of this if they re-watched them.

On one hand, it's a relief that the show is over. On the other, I'll miss laughing at it and watching videos making fun of it. I'm not even all that annoyed at it, like I was with Boba Fett and Kenobi, because it's been too comical and too far from Star Wars to even take seriously.

 

[HanSolo]

Spoiler

Sol had a trained Force user in custody, restrained only one of her hands and didn't take away the pip droid near her other. Then, he was just about to tell her the truth about her and her sister and she tazed him before she could hear the answer (because the writers weren't ready for us to hear)... but, later, she seemed ready to forgive him if he simply told the truth.

Previously, Bazil was suspicious of Mae, even attacked her and seemingly told Sol so that he could stun her. As soon as she woke up and she escaped, this same Bazil sabotaged the ship so that she could get away. On top of that, Sol saw him doing it and then still left him in charge of the ship after he landed.

It seems convenient that the elevator still had power, especially when the temple's generator was destroyed 16 years ago.

Vernestra and the other Jedi got from Coruscant to Brendok in seemingly less than an hour, even though it's well established that it takes several days, at least, to get from the Core worlds to the Outer Rim. This makes the universe feel very small, besides just breaking lore.

It made no sense for Osha to kill her former master and father figure just because he admitted to killing her mother, especially with him showing regret and without wanting to hear the details. Also, Osha had only ever shown the simplest and most passive of Force abilities (like sensing that someone was in danger), and certainly not dark side abilities. Being able to Force choke just came out of nowhere.

Also, the idea that someone with minimal Force ability, much less dark side ability, could change the color of a lightsaber without even meaning to, as if it's a mood ring, is really stupid. Anakin willingly chose the dark side and even slaughtered a village and a bunch of children, but his lightsaber didn't turn red because of it.

The girls wept because they were together again and, just two minutes later, agreed to have their bond broken and one of their memories wiped. And they agreed to it simply because the Jedi would use Mae to find Osha and Qimir, so why not take her with them instead of leaving her behind to be captured? Then, Osha told her that she'd come find her. First of all, there's no need to come find her if she no longer remembers you, and, second, you wouldn't need to if you didn't leave her to be captured now. It's just so nonsensical.

I thought that Osha turning evil and Mae becoming good was too stupid to ever happen. I underestimated Leslye Headland... again.

This is easily the worst of all of the Star Wars live action series, IMO. As bad as Boba Fett and Kenobi were, at least they felt a bit more like Star Wars, had more coherent plots and didn't have quite so many stupid things per episode. I think that people just remember how disappointing they were after the first two seasons of The Mandalorian and aren't quite as disappointed with this show because expectations are so much lower now than they were 3 years ago. I suspect that people might like them a little better if they were to re-watch them now. Heck, even I would probably find them refreshing after this.

On one hand, it's a relief that this show is over. On the other, it's a little sad because it's been amusing. I can't even be annoyed at it like I was with Boba Fett and Kenobi because it's been too comical and too far from Star Wars to even take seriously.

I mean there's a lot of loud ride or die fans giving this show undue praise on Twitter but past that I think most people see this for the amateurish mess that it is. And the disappointing thing is, the story at its barest bones isn't even bad. It's actually a pretty solid premise (the whole thing with the vergence is a little questionable though) but the execution was just piss poor outside of the lightsaber combat.

As for your spoiler talk

Spoiler

I think Sol was reasonable in assuming that Mae hadn't changed the droid's programming but yes, the intentionally unfinished/incomplete dialogue for adverse narrative outcomes I feel you can get away with once or twice and it has to be written well but here it was just contrived.

About the bleeding of the crystal, apparently, the lore that was already written in back in 2017 is you need to have committed an evil act and be physically touching a Kyber crystal and be directing your power into the crystal which would "fight back" against the dark power that is being channeled into it. Really stupid, but I think they already knew people would question why Anakin's saber didn't change colors in Ep. 3 back in 2017. And someone on Twitter showed that the crystal was dislodged and sticking out of the hilt and Osha was touching it. But that's still stupid because the crystal is supposed to be situated in a way to focus the beam forward. With the crystal at a diagonal, the lightsaber should have either not ignited, or it should have ignited wrong killing Osha either with a misdirected beam or with an explosion.

Also I don't think anyone ever said Osha wasn't powerful in the force. Qimir alluded to the fact that the opposite was true and there was a bit of subtext around that with the flashback episodes as well. And actually, as I've been typing this, their blood test showed they had a high midichlorian count. Which I hate that we have to use that as a reference point but can only blame Lucas for deciding force power potential can be biologically quantified.

Yeah the "I'll find you" line was very much a head scratcher. Like if either Osha or Qimir or even Mae had said leaving Mae behind would give the other two a better chance of escaping the Jedi, that would've made more sense. But the way it played out was like something out of a bad fan fic.

I'm not so sure the message was that Mae was turning good. I think it was more that she never fully intended to walk the path of the Sith and probably didn't want to hurt innocents but ultimately just wanted revenge/justice for what she lost. I don't think that makes her "good" now, she just has fragmented memories and lost her aggression and hunger for revenge. I don't know even if my interpretation is correct, the show did a piss poor job of establishing her core motivations and drives so, whatever. Doesn't really matter.

For me, I'd more readily rewatch Kenobi than this show or Book of Boba Fett. BoBF just feels like a complete and utter waste of everyone's time. At least the Acolyte I could pull up the lightsaber fights on YouTube but I wouldn't even do that much for BoBF.

 

[MadDevil]

Honestly, it's kind of like the end of GOT where I don't have a problem with where it ended (mostly anyway) as much as how they got there. Where they left it is basically what I thought the series was going to be about to begin with and I'd actually be interested in seeing where it goes. I'm just not sure this season was good enough to earn a second season.

 

[Osprey]

I mean there's a lot of loud ride or die fans giving this show undue praise on Twitter but past that I think most people see this for the amateurish mess that it is. And the disappointing thing is, the story at its barest bones isn't even bad. It's actually a pretty solid premise (the whole thing with the vergence is a little questionable though) but the execution was just piss poor outside of the lightsaber combat.

As for your spoiler talk

Spoiler

I think Sol was reasonable in assuming that Mae hadn't changed the droid's programming but yes, the intentionally unfinished/incomplete dialogue for adverse narrative outcomes I feel you can get away with once or twice and it has to be written well but here it was just contrived.

About the bleeding of the crystal, apparently, the lore that was already written in back in 2017 is you need to have committed an evil act and be physically touching a Kyber crystal and be directing your power into the crystal which would "fight back" against the dark power that is being channeled into it. Really stupid, but I think they already knew people would question why Anakin's saber didn't change colors in Ep. 3 back in 2017. And someone on Twitter showed that the crystal was dislodged and sticking out of the hilt and Osha was touching it. But that's still stupid because the crystal is supposed to be situated in a way to focus the beam forward. With the crystal at a diagonal, the lightsaber should have either not ignited, or it should have ignited wrong killing Osha either with a misdirected beam or with an explosion.

Also I don't think anyone ever said Osha wasn't powerful in the force. Qimir alluded to the fact that the opposite was true and there was a bit of subtext around that with the flashback episodes as well. And actually, as I've been typing this, their blood test showed they had a high midichlorian count. Which I hate that we have to use that as a reference point but can only blame Lucas for deciding force power potential can be biologically quantified.

Yeah the "I'll find you" line was very much a head scratcher. Like if either Osha or Qimir or even Mae had said leaving Mae behind would give the other two a better chance of escaping the Jedi, that would've made more sense. But the way it played out was like something out of a bad fan fic.

I'm not so sure the message was that Mae was turning good. I think it was more that she never fully intended to walk the path of the Sith and probably didn't want to hurt innocents but ultimately just wanted revenge/justice for what she lost. I don't think that makes her "good" now, she just has fragmented memories and lost her aggression and hunger for revenge. I don't know even if my interpretation is correct, the show did a piss poor job of establishing her core motivations and drives so, whatever. Doesn't really matter.

For me, I'd more readily rewatch Kenobi than this show or Book of Boba Fett. BoBF just feels like a complete and utter waste of everyone's time. At least the Acolyte I could pull up the lightsaber fights on YouTube but I wouldn't even do that much for BoBF.

We mostly agree, but to address a couple of your points:

Spoiler

How powerful Osha is in the Force wasn't my point. It was that her ability to Force choke came out of nowhere, despite not training or practicing in the last 5 years.

Mae gave up on revenge, wanted Sol to apologize and turn himself in and even consented to having memories of her bitterness and crimes erased. I think that that constitutes turning good, since good people choose justice over revenge and, without her memories, she has no more reason to bad.