Toggle sidebar

Online Series: Star Wars: The Acolyte on Disney+

If you criticize the show for having too many women it will be implied or outright said that you're a sexist. And maybe you are.

I do think having women equally (or overly) represented as warriors lowers the verisimilitude.

Star Wars is fantasy, so you can have unrealistic gender roles, but when Star Wars established itself, most of the characters engaged in combat were men. If you change that, it's going to feel different, and potentially seem unrealistic in the context of its own universe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stylizer1
johnjm22 said:
If you criticize the show for having too many women it will be implied or outright said that you're a sexist. And maybe you are.

I do think having women equally (or overly) represented as warriors lowers the verisimilitude.

Star Wars is fantasy, so you can have unrealistic gender roles, but when Star Wars established itself, most of the characters engaged in combat were men. If you change that, it's going to feel different, and potentially seem unrealistic in the context of its own universe.
Click to expand...
There were a whopping five force users total in the OT and two of them died after or in the course of one movie.

It's entirely plausible that in that time period, that's just how a limited sample shook out but it's not representative of the history or future of the jedi/sith orders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LarKing and Scandale du Jour
HanSolo said:
There were a whopping five force users total in the OT and two of them died after or in the course of one movie.

It's entirely plausible that in that time period, that's just how a limited sample shook out but it's not representative of the history or future of the jedi/sith orders.
Click to expand...
That's possible, but I didn't say force users. Although the vast majority of force users in the OT and prequels are men IIRC.

Most fighters in general were men. Soldiers, pilots, Jedi, Sith, bounty hunters, gangsters. That's what I meant. (We can't see stormtroopers but every time they talk it's a guy).

Stars Wars is influenced by our world. Samurais, knights, westerns, and even WWII. All those influences would seem to be mostly focused on male characters.

In theory, the force should balance out the distribution of male/female users because it's an equalizer. Yoda is small for example, but it doesn't matter because of his force abilities. However, most Knights and Samurais were men, and most people who fight in wars are men, so if you have equal representation it's probably not going to feel right.
 
johnjm22 said:
That's possible, but I didn't say force users. Although the vast majority of force users in the OT and prequels are men IIRC.

Most fighters in general were men. Soldiers, pilots, Jedi, Sith, bounty hunters, gangsters. That's what I meant. (We can't see stormtroopers but every time they talk it's a guy).

Stars Wars is influenced by our world. Samurais, knights, westerns, and even WWII. All those influences would seem to be mostly focused on male characters.

In theory, the force should balance out the distribution of male/female users because it's an equalizer. Yoda is small for example, but it doesn't matter because of his force abilities. However, most Knights and Samurais were men, and most people who fight in wars are men, so if you have equal representation it's probably not going to feel right.
Click to expand...
Personally, when it comes to fantasy/action adventures I couldn't give a shit about realistic parallelism enough to get bothered when it's not there. When it is there in an allegorical sense it's like an "oh neat, that's just like X in real life" kind of effect.

If I have any issue with the inclusion movement, it stems more from having a higher than normal number of badass women who have zero flaws and/or face very little adversity while the men around them swallow all that struggle. But the same thing applies, to me, for male characters. I find your average hero played by Dwayne Johnson to be just as boring as a heroine like, say, Brie Larson's Captain Marvel. I don't care what gender, race, creed, sexuality, etc. a character is. I care if they're written/acted well enough for me to care about/root for or against them.

Now if you're doing a historical depiction of say the Battle of the Bulge and the Germans are all white while the allies are a mixed race group of women, yeah I might find that f***ing annoying and over the top. Otherwise, to the extent that action adventure movies and shows are escapism, I don't need a hero to look like and be the same gender as me to appreciate the product.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big Poppa Puck, Sad People and LarKing
HanSolo said:
Personally, when it comes to fantasy/action adventures I couldn't give a shit about realistic parallelism enough to get bothered when it's not there. When it is there in an allegorical sense it's like an "oh neat, that's just like X in real life" kind of effect.

If I have any issue with the inclusion movement, it stems more from having a higher than normal number of badass women who have zero flaws and/or face very little adversity while the men around them swallow all that struggle. But the same thing applies, to me, for male characters. I find your average hero played by Dwayne Johnson to be just as boring as a heroine like, say, Brie Larson's Captain Marvel. I don't care what gender, race, creed, sexuality, etc. a character is. I care if they're written/acted well enough for me to care about/root for or against them.

Now if you're doing a historical depiction of say the Battle of the Bulge and the Germans are all white while the allies are a mixed race group of women, yeah I might find that f***ing annoying and over the top. Otherwise, to the extent that action adventure movies and shows are escapism, I don't need a hero to look like and be the same gender as me to appreciate the product.
Click to expand...
That's fine, and I get that. We all know the reason there's more women now; it's done to be more inclusive. But I think it's difficult to separate Star Wars from it's obvious real world influences, and I think they've inadvertently made the male and female characters largely interchangeable.

There's other fantasy series that have many interesting female characters but still feel more honest about gender roles.
 
johnjm22 said:
That's fine, and I get that. We all know the reason there's more women now; it's done to be more inclusive. But I think it's difficult to separate Star Wars from it's obvious real world influences, and I think they've inadvertently made the male and female characters largely interchangeable.

There's other fantasy series that have many interesting female characters but still feel more honest about gender roles.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is but that's just because I'm not bothered. If a girl out there feels more engaged in a story because there's a woman kicking ass in a fantasy movie/show, it doesn't chaff my ass that the warrior wasn't a man.

I guess for me it's really as simple as if I'm watching something where characters have literal telekinetic abilities flying around I ships that can cross a galaxy in less time than it would've taken American settlers to make it from one coast to the other, things that don't exist in real life, I'm not going to wring my wrists because a woman is shown as more physically capable in a fictional reality than she probably would be in real life.

And it's not like female jedi are some new invention out of the Disney factory. You had Aayla Secura, Shaak Ti and Ashoka Tano as canon characters in the Lucas era, and characters like Mara Jade and Jaina Solo (just to name notables) from the old EU. The precedent for female warriors was already there. They've just been highlighted more lately.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scandale du Jour, Holden Caulfield, LarKing and 1 other person
Perhaps the problem is the way 'diversity' has been implemented?

In the beginning (1977)... only little boys played with the action figures (it was the merchandising that created the SW legacy, not the movies). 'We', would nag our moms every time we were in a store with a toy aisle. Lucas made the movies, we created the icon through childhood memories. 'We' are the reason that franchise is worth billions of dollars. 'We' are the core audience, and Kathleen Kennedy hates it.

I can't claim ownership of the phenomenon, but my mom has a case considering the amount of money she spent on the merchandise....

Then, diversity came along with it's tired formula of co-opting a successful franchise and replacing 'tropes' because modern writers are too lazy to try to invent something iconic on their own because 'it's very difficult', and feminists aren't exactly known for their patience.

So, now we are in the era of 'the failing instant icon' (i.e. Ghostbusters 3). When these co-opts fail, it is 'we' who are blamed for not supporting it rather than the creators who put out an inferior product.

Now, when 'we' complain that they have taken a piece of our childhoods and twisted it into something it wasn't... or complain that there is so much 'diversity' it has become 'exclusivity'.... we are told we are bigoted and narrow minded... and not real Star Wars fans. Go f*ck yourself.

Finally, we are to the point where 'diversity' has shifted back to 'exclusivity', only now the shoe is on the other foot. Notice that the word 'equality' isn't used much anymore? That's because that isn't what the people producing this crap are actually interested in... What are they interested in? Demographics: Resetting the narrative and empowering voting blocks.

This isn't even the main cause of my problems with Disney. I finally lost interest in Disney when they became a sports-book who used Kevin Weekes (a paid representative of a sports-book) to introduce hockey to groom children through one of their tv shows on their childerns network.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: Scandale du Jour and Bowski
It wasn't enough George flipped his lid and started CGI-ing the F out of Star Wars while making a kid-friendly dialogue backstory.

Then JJ and Disney/Rian F'ed up the biggest potential trilogy of all time.

Now we have Weinstein's accomplice weirdos telling us how the light/dark side is inherently wrong.
Is Vince Russo in line to write some of the future swerves in this series? Is Kevin Nash a Jedi Master?

This sounds like horrible trash as predicted.
Enjoy, those that do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeyMike01 and lucaseider
Stylizer1 said:
I prefer watching men being the hero's.
Click to expand...

Totally fine with me if you prefer men.
Different strokes for different folks. Not everyone has to like the same thing.

tbh I don't think I would have noticed the lack of white male representation in this show without the complaining on the internet about it. That's not really what a meritocracy means.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Holden Caulfield
HanSolo said:
https://x.com/i/web/status/1798578143483339250

That's pretty impressive. I would've thought he's known how to speak English for years on years. Also more or less nailed it with emulating Qui Gon given how everyone has been talking about how he's had Qui-Gon vibes.
Click to expand...
I kindve thought his English was a bit odd at times but then thought it must just be the accent. That's incredible English for how new he is to it relatively.
 
Bounces R Way said:
Totally fine with me if you prefer men.
Different strokes for different folks. Not everyone has to like the same thing.

tbh I don't think I would have noticed the lack of white male representation in this show without the complaining on the internet about it. That's not really what a meritocracy means.
Click to expand...
I dont read internet reviews or read complaints on how well they portrayed this or that. I watch to be entertained. I just don't find many of these side stories star wars like. Boba, Obi, and the madalorian are the closest to the original feel of the series. These are the characters I am interested in and their stories. If they happen to white, great, but I never watched Star Wars seeing colour. I watched it because it was cool.
 

johnjm22 said:
If you criticize the show for having too many women it will be implied or outright said that you're a sexist. And maybe you are.

I do think having women equally (or overly) represented as warriors lowers the verisimilitude.

Star Wars is fantasy, so you can have unrealistic gender roles, but when Star Wars established itself, most of the characters engaged in combat were men. If you change that, it's going to feel different, and potentially seem unrealistic in the context of its own universe.
Click to expand...
I don't care what people think of my opinion. Its not rooted in hatred. There has to be a level of believability to interest me and seeing so many women leading people into battle is not what any of us see in real life. Men are the meat heads. I loved Blue Eyed Samurai though.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Beau Knows
I don't care about gender roles in star wars - I only care when said roles are created solely as a political/demographical statement.

Same reason why I hated Ewoks as their introduction was only to sell toys and not tell a story (when star wars really started going downhill).

There were always strong women in Star Wars and the expanded universe. Now, its just tangibly different, especially with the introduction of pronouns and such.

Sorry I will not post regarding Star Wars anymore. I consider it a chapter of my life closed.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: Finlandia WOAT, Bowski, Hivemind and 1 other person
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom