SSM Greyhounds 2022-23 Season Thread
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Harley49
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HockeyPops
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YES!
Kudryavtsev was great last year as the fourth D on a good team. This year he is the #1 D on a bad team. That is a huge jump, and I was just hoping for him to hold his own. He has done more than that. He is keeping the top pairing in the black for plus/minus which is very difficult to do on a team that doesn't score for a variety of reasons.
Gibson has been an absolute revelation. Sure, he had a great year in junior B. But many players struggle translating that success to the OHL. Gibson, however, has just carried on seamlessly. To be playing consistent top pairing minutes, contributing offensively, and avoiding the defensive miscues has been nothing short of astonishing.
Carlisle's play has been in line with expectations. He has been solid.
Thompson has been a pleasant surprise. I was hoping he could hold down top 4 minutes, but the versatility to his game has been impressive. All that for a tenth.
Virgilio has a wicked high ceiling, but you still see some rookie gaffs. That's to be expected from a 16 year old. But again, signing him was completely unexpected so I still view him as overachieving.
By my count, that's 4 players in the top 5 overachieving, and one playing up to expectations.
Toms has taken a step. Brzustowski was looking solid before his injury. Van De Ven, not sure why he is healthy scratched for a call up. Seems strange.
But yes, I still view this D corps as definitely overachieving thus far into the season.
Ì wouldn't call Gibson's play astonishing after he played at an 'MVP' calibre level in the NOJHL, but I will say that he has been a pleasant surprise. He would have played in the OHL last year on other teams and perhaps been perceived as less of a surprise but I watch a good number of Thunderbirds games.
I still fail to see why Kudryavtsev is such a surprise. He had a really strong rookie season to build off of and had the CHL and NHL draft pedigree. This is what one should have expected going into his age 18 season. I mentioned him as a 50 point guy on this forum.
Thompson's play has been solid, but the 10th round pick isn't some kind of steal for a guy who is an offensive zero and an overager. He could have easily been waiver fodder like Mark Duarte. That's my opinion anyways.
I'm unsure that calling Virgilio a surprise is fair, given the parameters of your original argument, but I digress.
HockeyPops
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Perhaps, although my original argument was:
At this point in time, Virgilio was not in the picture, and our defense corps looked ok but not great. I think that is the gist of my original argument.
Kudryavtsev was definitely expected to be our #1 going into the season. I am certainly in agreement with your expectations of him on the offensive side. But he is also handling the defensive side equally as well, and that's while being paired with a rookie (Gibson). For me, he is outperforming. I guess for you he may just be meeting expectations?
I guess we are both in agreement that Gibson is outperforming expectations, with the only question being by how much.
With Carlisle it sounds like we have some agreement - we are both saying he is meeting expecations?
Thompson I still believe is exceeding my expectations. Maybe that's because we did poorly last year when adding minor pieces (a 10th for Anselmini, a 6th for McMullen). Thompson could well have been a waiver claim as nobody was willing to give more than a 10th it looks like. But that should more or less guarantee that he is exceeding expectations, no? Duarte is also exceeding expectations, performing admirably in T6 duties while playing out of position. But that's beyond the scope of this argument as it doesn't pertain to the D.
Regardless of whose expectations we use, I don't see how you can argue the D corps is not exceeding expectations?
Mine:
Kudryavtsev +
Gibson ++
Carlisle
Thompson +
Virgilio +
Overall +++++
Yours:
Kudryavtsev
Gibson +
Carlisle
Thompson
Virgilio
Overall +
Still don't know how Gibson stepping into first line duties isn't an exceeds rating, and how Virgilio decommitting unexpectedly and joining the roster isn't an exceeds, but I respect your arguments for each.
i'd likely agree with HP that the team has exceeded my personal expectations with their defensive metrics to date. that said, we're still a basement team so it's not like our defensive play is stealing games.
and before you chide me about lack of offense... both offense and defense are the product of all 5 skaters, not just the positional players. the forwards deserve credit for the strong defensive stats too, and the defense should be expected to contribute more offensively.
and before you chide me about lack of offense... both offense and defense are the product of all 5 skaters, not just the positional players. the forwards deserve credit for the strong defensive stats too, and the defense should be expected to contribute more offensively.
HockeyPops
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For sure. The team as a whole has to figure out more offensive production. We've got 2 defensemen in the top 8 in team scoring; that's pretty much on par with every season (with the exception of last year we had 3). I'd say both the forwards and the defense need to find another gear when it comes to offense.
trading for youth is tough unless you have veterans to move out to a team making a run. maybe savard or watson? these sort of rebuilding moves probably should have happened last year. but the greyhounds don't need to rebuild blah blah blah
They need help up front but most teams are not looking to move 18 year olds. I don't really see who they would move in a deal to get a forward either. Not many impactful 19 year olds to sell and OA's that don't have a ton of value. The cost of acquiring an impactful 18 year old is usually really high too. They also need their picks for adding to next years team. Maybe they can find some buy low targets.
I agree. They need help in the scoring department big time. Also, a vastly improved powerplay is a need at this point in time.
The cost to host a cup isn't cheap no matter what way you shape it up.
Does anyone think Chris Brown is a piece they will dangle in front of teams? I just don't see how or what he does next year... even if he has potential in the league, it doesn't help us for what we are obviously building towards. Just my perspective anyways.
The other alternative is to fire John Dean...
Yah they are going to have to get creative when looking at ways to improve. One way would be to actually fill their second import slot which they rarely use. If they could move Brown for and impact 18 year old it would make a lot of sense.
Just taking a look at some maybe under achieving 18 year olds off of other teams rosters that may or may not be available.
Hunter Haight - only 8 points through 16 games and 2 goals.
Jake Karabela - 9 points in 19 games.
Jonathan Melee - 6 points in 18 games.
Max Nemestnikov - 7 points in 18 games.
All high upside players off to slow starts this year. Have no idea how available they are but just some ideas.
Another interesting player is Sapovaliv from Saginaw. If the spirit are planning on building around Misa, would he be available for the right price?
Hunter Haight - only 8 points through 16 games and 2 goals.
Jake Karabela - 9 points in 19 games.
Jonathan Melee - 6 points in 18 games.
Max Nemestnikov - 7 points in 18 games.
All high upside players off to slow starts this year. Have no idea how available they are but just some ideas.
Another interesting player is Sapovaliv from Saginaw. If the spirit are planning on building around Misa, would he be available for the right price?
HockeyPops
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This is exactly what I am thinking too. Great post.
Current lineup that returns next season:
Mignosa - big BMB -
Savard -
Brown - D'Intino - Kostov
Hookey - Ballard - Moses
Good
* Allard & Clattenburg out
Kudryavtsev - Gibson
Toms -
Carlisle - Virgilio
baby BMB
* Brzustowski out
Schenkel
Ivanov
Miller
Looking ahead to next season:
Goaltending looks good for next season. I don't think we need to add there.
Our defense is looking pretty good too, I think it's too early to add there. Let this crew finish this season and then next year if you feel you need to add, you do it at that point.
Our top 6 is going to include big BMB, Mignosa, Savard. When Allard comes back he belongs there too. Not Convinced Cloutier belongs there, and the two OAs graduate. So, we either develop a couple more T6 forwards for next year (D'Intino?), or we need to add two T6 forwards next season. Maybe Lutz, Nordh, or through the import draft we could help address this in the offseason.
We are also struggling in the bottom 6. Cloutier, Hookey, Kostov, Brown, Clattenburg, Moses, Ballard, Good. Some of these guys might break out of their slump, but many of them won't find a scoring touch this season. We may end up needing to add a depth forward or two for next year's team as well.
Maybe you target an 18 year old mid-6 forward that is hopefully just waiting to break out. Preferably a left shot. Someone like a Max Namestnikov/Zach Filak or a Justin DeZoete or an Owen Van Steensel or a Trent Swick or a Gavin Bryant. Someone who maybe needs a bit more opportunity up the lineup and an extra season to find their scoring touch. Just spitballing, but that's the type of player I'm looking to add if I'm Raftis.
I think it's too early to reach that conclusion on Brown. The entire offense is sputtering, not just him. John Dean finally has to get to work and actually show us he can coach. Let's see if he can get these guys producing.
I agree with you on the goaltending and D. Maybe try and flip Ivanov at the deadline for picks if you can. I can't see them using an OA spot on him next year with the play of Schenkel and having Miller waiting in the wings.
I just think they need to find a way to add some more high end players to the top 6. An import is probably the easiest way to add one because it shouldn't cost you anything if its Nordh or Lutz.
The bottom 6 is probably easier to address because adding depth shouldn't cost that much. I do wonder if they would consider trading Clouthier if they don't feel he fits in the top 6 and still has a bit more value with him being a former 1st round pick. I do like the way he plays in a 3rd line checking role though. Him and Allard would be fun to watch together.
I just think they need to find a way to add some more high end players to the top 6. An import is probably the easiest way to add one because it shouldn't cost you anything if its Nordh or Lutz.
The bottom 6 is probably easier to address because adding depth shouldn't cost that much. I do wonder if they would consider trading Clouthier if they don't feel he fits in the top 6 and still has a bit more value with him being a former 1st round pick. I do like the way he plays in a 3rd line checking role though. Him and Allard would be fun to watch together.
if you're serious about hosting a cup and competing, i think you have to include Cloutier and Brown. it's a go for it or nothing at all. i've been saying for years to just empty the cupboards, go for it, start all over. being good every year is fine till playoffs. i'd rather be great every 3rd or 4th year.
IMO if you want a cup, there's no other way to get it than to trade brown AND cloutier AND every available 2nd round pick.
Load up, start again.
IMO if you want a cup, there's no other way to get it than to trade brown AND cloutier AND every available 2nd round pick.
Load up, start again.
Agreed, this is a big test for John.
Here's a random one...
Do we see Tanner Dickinson returned, and flipped? He hasn't played yet. On the AHL roster he would slot in as 4th Cman ( unless they play him on the wing ) when he does return. He could be ECHL or even OHL-bound.
Obviously, ECHL makes the most sense, but without having played ANY competitive hockey the OHL may be a good rehab stint .....
This would be HUGE for the cupboard.
The blues are so jammed up down the middle.
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For sure but you also have to Ice a HALF decent team to win that bid. I know it's not the full requirement but as it stands right now....yikes
HockeyPops
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In 2019-2020 we were in the midst of a bid and in the first 19 games had only collected 13 points. Now, we did bring in Brkin on Nov 12 which helped right the ship. Then we dumped Jacklin and Wale at the deadline. We might be looking at something similar here; bring in a reinforcement now (forward) to prop up the team, then do a light sell at the deadline (Watson? Ivanov? Brzustowski? D'Intino?)
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