Confirmed with Link: Sharks acquire Jake Walman and 2nd round pick 2024 (#53) for future considerations

[ChompChomp]

If that’s the case, then why announce the 53rd pick going to us now? Just do a separate pick trade later.

Because that's already locked in. What's not locked in is what the future considerations are, and I'm just saying, it is possible the future considerations are the right to swap 14/15, and if DET elects not to, maybe they get a 6th or whatever. AND it's possible both teams don't want other teams to know that there's a potential 14/15 swap available to DET.

Just spit balling here, we really have no idea.

 

[LilLeeroy]

It seems like the Goodrow deal was like in the old kung fu movies where the master would act drunk, some punks would try to steal from him, and then he'd beat them all up.

Hope it ends up in a big return for Ferraro too.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Because that's already locked in. What's not locked in is what the future considerations are, and I'm just saying, it is possible the future considerations are the right to swap 14/15, and if DET elects not to, maybe they get a 6th or whatever.

Why is it locked in? They could have done “Walman for FC” and then later “FC is 14 for 15 plus 53”. Or gotten complicated on conditions like “Walman for FC, if Detroit elects then 14 for 15 and 53”.

It just makes no sense at all. There could be something convoluted I’m not considering but there’s no logical way there’s another pick swap going on.

 

[NiWa]

Because that's already locked in. What's not locked in is what the future considerations are, and I'm just saying, it is possible the future considerations are the right to swap 14/15, and if DET elects not to, maybe they get a 6th or whatever.

That would suck though in that it takes the opportunity to trade up off the table at draft day 1?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This trade was such good value for us that Wings fans are convinced there’s some secret component that ends with us trading #14 to them. Crazy.

I will admit that this trade is so good I’m almost concerned there’s a catch.

The catch is that we're going to miss out on Stamkos since he'll go to Detroit now. lol

 

[mogambomoroo]

I believe if the swap is really part of the deal, they have a deal about swapping at the draft at #14 pick being on the clock.
There is a chance MG can trade up, which means that Sharks keep their own pick and there is no transactions or there is a 6th round pick moving for future considerations.

EDIT: This is not based on a confirmed source, only a theory.

 

[ChompChomp]

Why is it locked in? They could have done “Walman for FC” and then later “FC is 14 for 15 plus 53”. Or gotten complicated on conditions like “Walman for FC, if Detroit elects then 14 for 15 and 53”.

It just makes no sense at all. There could be something convoluted I’m not considering but there’s no logical way there’s another pick swap going on.

It's locked in because it's locked in. None of us know why they did that way as opposed to any other way. All we know is DET is getting future considerations, which some people are speculating is a right to swap picks.

I frankly don't think it is that, and I think that is just a product of Red Wings fans' wishful thinking. I think it is Stevie Y so desperate to clear as much cap space as possible for Stamkos that he wanted to get the deal done now, and that the future considerations on the table are a choice, at a later date, between a late pick in 2025 and one of several middling prospects. Because that's what future considerations usually are, they aren't usually a 1st round draft pick swap election.

 

[STL Shark]

Thanks for the breakdown, I appreciate it.

Depending on who falls to #20, that could be tempting…

Would you do that?


I’m worried about a catch, too…

I think I’d just do the Pageau deal separately for 54th and then use a combination of 2nd rounders to move up as needed if a guy you want falls.

 

[Alaskanice]

There’s a rumor out now that Detroit is trying to trade for John Gibson. That would make this move understandable.

 

[TealManV]

I d love Chernyshov at 20, but if we go forward at 14, we'd really want a D at #20 (Solberg/Jiricek are probably gone here).

Agreed on needing a D at that point and those two likely to be gone. Maybe 14 & 20 can get them high enough for Buium??

 

[STL Shark]

There is a theory going on that Sharks and Detroit would swap picks at #14 and #15 if Detroit has their player available at #14. It would be a very minimal move but I don't believe it being true.

That would be so dumb because the cost to move up that spot would be that pick. We gave up 58th to move from 20 to 18 in 2013 with Detroit.

And if that was part of the deal, they’d just have announced it at once. Anyone suggesting that has no semblance of reality and are riding pure hopium.

Because that's already locked in. What's not locked in is what the future considerations are, and I'm just saying, it is possible the future considerations are the right to swap 14/15, and if DET elects not to, maybe they get a 6th or whatever. AND it's possible both teams don't want other teams to know that there's a potential 14/15 swap available to DET.

Just spit balling here, we really have no idea.

We literally do though because never in NHL history has “future considerations” been anything remotely close to that value. It’s like some people are seeing trade jargon for the first time ever.

 

[ChompChomp]

That would be so dumb because the cost to move up that spot would be that pick. We gave up 58th to move from 20 to 18 in 2013 with Detroit.

And if that was part of the deal, they’d just have announced it at once. Anyone suggesting that has no semblance of reality and are riding pure hopium.


We literally do though because never in NHL history has “future considerations” been anything remotely close to that value. It’s like some people are seeing trade jargon for the first time ever.

I said in a later post that I do ultimately think that theory is just wishful thinking from Wings fans.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Future Considerations can even be to let a team wear their whites at home or to wear their darks on the road.

There is basically no way of knowing what those FC will be.

 

[mogambomoroo]

That would be so dumb because the cost to move up that spot would be that pick. We gave up 58th to move from 20 to 18 in 2013 with Detroit.

And if that was part of the deal, they’d just have announced it at once. Anyone suggesting that has no semblance of reality and are riding pure hopium.


We literally do though because never in NHL history has “future considerations” been anything remotely close to that value. It’s like some people are seeing trade jargon for the first time ever.

Like I mentioned it's just a theory since the trade itself seemed too good to be true and that's a deal with Yzerman himself. It would make sense if it was Walman was for the future considerations and swap was for that #53 pick.

 

[Jargon]

I love that in 3 days we’ve gone from “there must be a secret deal re: Goodrow because it’s such a bad move” to “there’s got to be a secret deal with Detroit because this is such a great move”

How many secret deals can one man make?! Grier is Keyser Soze?!

 

[Mattb124]

What if the guy Detroit wants is gone by then, but the guy we want is there?

This, smart negotiators maintain the optionality.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805687303547101687

 

[TealManV]

I think I’d just do the Pageau deal separately for 54th and then use a combination of 2nd rounders to move up as needed if a guy you want falls.

Well after today’s trade of #53 for two years of cap relief of $3.4m ($6.8m total), clearing two years of cap relief of $5m per ($10m total) should be worth more than #54.

I know that’s an oversimplification of how it works but now that precedent has been set.

Lots of smoke around a potential JGP buyout for NYI, so maybe Lou values dumping his cap more?

 

[mogambomoroo]

Watching Detroit fans reacting to this, I think we got a steal of a player in Walman. Feeling like he'll become a fan favorite in no time.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Im guessing between opportunity/desired place to go with his NTC and cap space the choices were very limited so Grier parlayed that into getting payed

 

[Juxtaposer]

It's locked in because it's locked in. None of us know why they did that way as opposed to any other way. All we know is DET is getting future considerations, which some people are speculating is a right to swap picks.

I frankly don't think it is that, and I think that is just a product of Red Wings fans' wishful thinking. I think it is Stevie Y so desperate to clear as much cap space as possible for Stamkos that he wanted to get the deal done now, and that the future considerations on the table are a choice, at a later date, between a late pick in 2025 and one of several middling prospects. Because that's what future considerations usually are, they aren't usually a 1st round draft pick swap election.

My point is that it didn’t have to be locked in. They could have structured this deal so that there was no puck involved and then do a pick trade later.

I guess my point is that when was the last time Future Considerations meant anything tangible?

 

[The Nemesis]

It's locked in because it's locked in. None of us know why they did that way as opposed to any other way. All we know is DET is getting future considerations, which some people are speculating is a right to swap picks.

I frankly don't think it is that, and I think that is just a product of Red Wings fans' wishful thinking. I think it is Stevie Y so desperate to clear as much cap space as possible for Stamkos that he wanted to get the deal done now, and that the future considerations on the table are a choice, at a later date, between a late pick in 2025 and one of several middling prospects. Because that's what future considerations usually are, they aren't usually a 1st round draft pick swap election.

They're rarely even that much. To the extent that a lot of the time futures rarely even get cashed in or recognized as being part of a subsequent move.

There are a handful of instances where the futures do come around in some significant way (IIRC the deal that sent Theo Fleury from Calgary to Colorado included futures that ended up being the rights to recently drafted prospect Robyn Regher, where he was conveyed like a month after the actual original trade. If I'm not mistaken the theory was that Calgary basically got a list of prospects and was told "pick one, we'll give you some time to decide." and FCs was the way to engineer that grace period. I also believe there was some claim that Jeff Buekeboom being traded by Edmonton to the Rangers was the fulfillment of the future considerations in the Edm-NYR deal that sent Mark Messier to New York) but most of the time it's basically something of such little value that it can't be documented. Because if you were going to give them a 7th round pick or something like that you'd just do that.

I believe most recently the biggest use of futures was pre-expansion-draft trades where the future considerations dealt by Vegas/Seattle to other teams were "we promise to select/not select <insert player> in the expansion draft.

In terms of how futures mostly end up being a big fat pile of nothing of value for an NHL roster or prospect pool, most famously, the Jets 1.0 traded Kris Draper to the Red Wings for futures. Those futures quite literally ended up being $1. Other times it may be used as a stand-in for things that the teams are not legally allowed to trade each other, like there was a minor league trade where a team dealt a guy and got back appliances for their equipment room, or a WHL trade where a dude was traded for futures that ended up being a used team bus that the club receiving the player had and the trading team needed.

If the futures in this deal end up being anything of any real value I will be shocked.

 

[Jargon]

I have to say that while I think Grier has done very well on some trades, this is the first straight up fleecing I’ve seen. Like, literally getting a top 4 defenseman and a 2nd round pick for nothing feels like a con.

 

[STL Shark]

Well after today’s trade of #53 for two years of cap relief of $3.4m ($6.8m total), clearing two years of cap relief of $5m per ($10m total) should be worth more than #54.

I know that’s an oversimplification of how it works but now that precedent has been set.

Lots of smoke around a potential JGP buyout for NYI, so maybe Lou values dumping his cap more?

Issue is that it’s not a pure cap dump. Maybe he’s not worth $5M, but he’s still a solid player. He gets some of the toughest starts and matchups in the league, but is still a good player. $5M for a 3C just isn’t something NYI can afford.

Just like Walman isn’t a total dud. He’s just something Detroit can’t afford with their other offseason plans it appears from reports.

Based on their play last year, both are probably overpaid by about a million bucks compared to what they’d make on the open market. So you’re dumping $2M over 2 years rather than it being a true “$5M cap dump”. Hence why they cost pretty close to the same to dump.

They're rarely even that much. To the extent that a lot of the time futures rarely even get cashed in or recognized as being part of a subsequent move.

There are a handful of instances where the futures do come around in some significant way (IIRC the deal that sent Theo Fleury from Calgary to Colorado included futures that ended up being the rights to recently drafted prospect Robyn Regher, where he was conveyed like a month after the actual original trade. If I'm not mistaken the theory was that Calgary basically got a list of prospects and was told "pick one, we'll give you some time to decide." and FCs was the way to engineer that grace period. I also believe there was some claim that Jeff Buekeboom being traded by Edmonton to the Rangers was the fulfillment of the future considerations in the Edm-NYR deal that sent Mark Messier to New York) but most of the time it's basically something of such little value that it can't be documented. Because if you were going to give them a 7th round pick or something like that you'd just do that.

I believe most recently the biggest use of futures was pre-expansion-draft trades where the future considerations dealt by Vegas/Seattle to other teams were "we promise to select/not select <insert player> in the expansion draft.

In terms of how futures mostly end up being a big fat pile of nothing of value for an NHL roster or prospect pool, most famously, the Jets 1.0 traded Kris Draper to the Red Wings for futures. Those futures quite literally ended up being $1. Other times it may be used as a stand-in for things that the teams are not legally allowed to trade each other, like there was a minor league trade where a team dealt a guy and got back appliances for their equipment room, or a WHL trade where a dude was traded for futures that ended up being a used team bus that the club receiving the player had and the trading team needed.

If the futures in this deal end up being anything of any real value I will be shocked.

NHL future considerations, explained: Defining hockey’s most interesting trade chip | Sporting News

Nikita Zaitsev was the latest trade that involved "future considerations" being a part of the deal.

www.sportingnews.com

If others need more context than your post (well written btw), link above has it.

 

[sharski]

if GMMG is gonna respect sharks tradition, the catch is that he'll use the draft pick to move up into the top 10, get everyone all hot & bothered... and then draft a project that people have never heard of... so off the board that the prospect looks genuinely confused in their first interview asking them what went through their mind when the pick was announced