Rumor: Seravalli: Rangers been all over JT Miller

[Raistlin]

Since it was reported there was a clear divide in the locker room between Miller's clique and Horvat's clique. That, coupled with the fact you are 13/16 in the Western Conference.

Eichel is a comparable because its nearly the exact return you are asking for Miller. And when you look at the 2 situations, 999/1000 teams take Eichel with the neck surgery over JT Miller, not even really a debate.

vancouver media is full of suspect sotries, when that rumor came out, it was immediately shut down. the players were mad that the media was being that irresponsible.

Eichel is not a comparable, to compare the two is complete folly. the previous poster already stated the whys and I'm in total agreement. bottom line, he is healthy and in the prime of his game.

key points with Miller.

1. Canucks are in no hurry to deal him. he is crucial to the teams success and likes it here. only reason hes available is because we suspect that the team cannot afford him in the 8-10 million range. which is probable.
2. he plays all situations. and is the most consistent play driver on the team in those situations.
3. his fieriness is actually appreciated in a more laid back locker room
4. his term is a bigger selling point than his low cap hit. reason why hes available now instead of next season, his value is most realized by trading him now from an asset management point of view, and that is for both buyer and seller.
5. he has proven this season to be a capable center, winning about 55% of his faceoffs and decent defensively.
6. considering all these points, its not surprising that there will be a bidding war for him, half hearted offers can be readily ignored by (thank god) a respected GM.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I just listened to the Seravelli interview.

it honestly sounds like he is confident in this rumor and has inside knowledge.

He also makes it sound like that the return for Miller wouldnt be prospects and picks and more like young players on the roster already.

HF would explode if it involved LAffy , Kakko but probably more like Lundqvist Chytil.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

So what? There are plenty of NYR fans on this board who don't live in reality. The Rangers didn't give up two top prospects for Rick Nash. They aren't trading all that to have a guy for a season and a half.

Rick Nash asked for a trade and had a much higher salary not to mention a NTC, that's not even bringing up the fact that your comparable trade was almost 10 years ago.

This comparison is not only a reach it completely ignored context. WOW

 

[smoneil]

You are underselling John Moore at the time he was only 24 and still had top 4 upside. Certainly more value than Nemeth.

But, the big issue here is you are really misremembering who well regarded Duclair was at the time. The forbearer of these boards has Duclair ranked as the #41 prospect in the NHL and that is certainly the same range as Schneider.

I do think that the Yandle trade is the right one to look at, just think you are underselling what the Rangers gave up.

I agree about Nemeth not being as good as Moore--that was just the closest piece to a "journeyman bottom pair defenseman" on our roster. You are upselling Moore. He had played 200+ games, including three seasons where the Rangers were desperately trying to make John Moore happen. When you are 24 years old and still spinning "upside"...that upside probably isn't really there. His skating made people expect more from him, but he was an offensive D who couldn't put up any points and was below average in his own end. That was already the book on him at the time of the trade.

As for Duclair, he wasn't as well regarded at the time of the trade as you think. You mentioned the #41 prospect ranking, but that was his ranking after the season where he was traded (ie: after he put up 34 in 26 games for the Remparts and (more importantly) going ppg+ in the playoffs. In the summer Bleacher Report rankings, he didn't make the top 50 (Ranking the Top 50 NHL Prospects After the 2014 Draft), and while he WAS ranked as the Rangers top prospect that summer (Ranking the Top New York Rangers Prospects to Watch in 2014-15), the only real competition for that spot was Brady Skjei (who finished 2nd). Even then, Rangers fans were relieved that we didn't give up Buchnevich, as most of us thought he had higher potential between the two. That said, there IS a case to be made that Arizona may have taken a lesser prospect than they could have due to their obsession with re-capturing the chemistry between Duclair and Domi. And you have to factor in the character concerns that dropped Duclair to the 3rd round in the first place. He's a tough player to evaluate in calendar year 2014.

I still think that Schneider is worth what Duclair WOULD have been worth without the character questions, and he plays a far more valuable position in RD as opposed to W, which makes him considerably more valuable as well.

I see the Rangers being interested in Miller (it's such a NYR move to sell a player cheap and then pay a load a few years later to get him back), but not at any price. They can deal from their position of strength, which is smallish, mobile, puck-moving defensemen (Jones or Lundkvist, both of whom, IIRC are among the current top 100 prospects, though I don't remember where they landed in said list). They can add a guy like Hajek (who, now that I think of it, is probably closer to the "John Moore" slot than Nemeth). Draft picks would be in play. I just think Vancouver would get a better offer from a team that actually needs a #1 center.

 

[smoneil]

I can almost guarantee I’m older than you

Were you around for the 1970s? Best 3 months of my life, haha.

And I am amazed at the number of people who think Yandle, at the time of the trade, was a bum or something. He was a regular in the top 5 scoring D (not EK level but in that next group) for years with Arizona. His numbers the year he was traded were down a bit because he was having issues with the coach, but he was still seen as a top get at the time of the trade.

 

[smoneil]

Rangers sit 3rd overall in the NHL halfway through the season, you guys have a Vezina candidate in Shesterkin. In the past 20 years, all Stanley Cup winners were teams that finished top 10 in the regular season besides the Kings that one year.

When was the last time a team won the Stanley Cup with a roster almost devoid of any playoff experience? This team hasn't played a post-season game (play-in notwithstanding) in the last 5 years. That experience matters. That was one of the reasons I was opposed to trading for Nash. He had no playoff experience. His first post-season was miserable. We went to the SCF and he was a complete passenger. He got better the next year and even better the year after, but we needed him that first year and he just wasn't ready for it. Players have said as much repeatedly--you can't explain playoff hockey. You have to experience it. Once you have, you get a sense as to how to prepare for it. I don't care how high in the standings they are, this team is more likely to lose in round one than they are to go to the SCF, and if they win a round or two, that is 100% a victory for where they are at in terms of development.

You talk about the production rate in his last 2 years with the Rangers

Last 2 seasons with the Rangers = 90 points in 145 games .62 p/g
Last 3 seasons with the Canucks = 156 points in 160 games 0.98 p/g

Not even remotely close with the production rates there "they are very close to what he's done with Vancouver".

Yeah, I talk about production rate (ie: point production per minutes played), and you counter by giving point per game? My whole point was that the big thing Vancouver did was boost Miller's minutes (by 4+ minutes over his last couple seasons as a Ranger). I'm talking about production rate. His last two seasons with the Rangers, his production rates were 23:57 and 26:15. With Vancouver, his PR has been: 19:15, 24:09, and 21:10. Still better, but very close (particularly in Miller's penultimate year with the Rangers).

There is no way you're comparing Yandle to Miller when Miller is easily miles ahead of Yandle as a player. You're telling me that Miller who's 16th in scoring in the last 3 seasons, plays all 3 positions, plays the PK isn't an elite player, lol.

There are guys who are putting up 15+ points beyond ppg. When I use the word "elite" I mean it. Among puck moving defensemen at the time of the Yandle trade, Erik Karlsson was Elite. Yandle was in that group of five or six guys who came after him. The same is true of Miller. In his very best season, 8 centers scored more than him (including Zibanejad). Last year, 19 centers scored more than him (including Zibanejad and Ryan Strome). Are Zibanejad and Strome elite? I don't think so. They are, however very good (Zib moreso than Strome, who is a bit more one-dimensional).

Again--not knocking Miller. I just don't see where it makes sense to trade a ton for him at this point in the team's development. Our biggest need is a third line center--someone who does what Miller does but at ~.5 ppg.

 

[sting101]

Remember when Kesler got
1st 24th OA
Bonino 26yr old 49pt C on a good contract
Sbisa (cap)

and Murray said had we done the deal at the deadline that the 10th OA and Theodore were on the table as well as far as pieces in exchange for 24th and Bonino and Canuck fans were upset about the return

Nobody wants to lose a fine prospect but Miller at THIS deadline will cost 2 of Schneider Othmann 1st and Nemeth probably for cap reasons at minimum unless Rutherford gets worked

I would suspect with the way Othmann and Schneider are trending that the Rangers would maybe add a late pick to off set Nemeth and to assure that we get the late 1st vs Othmann

I know that everybody envisions their prospects as hall of famers but Miller has become a swiss army knife top20 scorer built for playoffs and play drives on a value contract.

I want to re sign him as he's an on ice leader and brings the kind of puck protection and physicality in the tough areas of the ice we need more of (in addition to PPG scoring) and it will gut our group but it may not be an option if he wants to go back out to the eastern US closer to family and with a team maybe a bit closer to competing

 

[smoneil]

Remember when Kesler got
1st 24th OA
Bonino 26yr old 49pt C on a good contract
Sbisa (cap)

and Murray said had we done the deal at the deadline that the 10th OA and Theodore were on the table as well as far as pieces in exchange for 24th and Bonino and Canuck fans were upset about the return

Nobody wants to lose a fine prospect but Miller at THIS deadline will cost 2 of Schneider Othmann 1st and Nemeth probably for cap reasons at minimum unless Rutherford gets worked

I would suspect with the way Othmann and Schneider are trending that the Rangers would maybe add a late pick to off set the Nemeth and to assure that we get the 1st vs Othmann

I know that everybody envisions their prospects as hall of famers but Miller has become a swiss army knife top20 scorer built for playoffs and play drives on a value contract.

I want to re sign him as he's an on ice leader and brings the kind of puck protection and physicality in the tough areas of the ice we need more of (in addition to PPG scoring) and it will gut our group but it may not be an option if he wants to go back out to the eastern US closer to family and with a team maybe a bit closer to competing

That's all well and good, but you won't get it from the Rangers. They have a #1 center and a pretty solid #2 center. Adding a center of Miller's caliber is a luxury, not a need. If Vancouver draws the line on two top prospects (which they are well within their rights to do), then the Rangers almost certainly move on to less expensive options. There's a reason more deals fall apart than actually happen. It has to be right for both sides.

 

[Sota Popinski]

What about the end of my post where they could have up to $8m in space to sign those guys? Does that contradict what you said?

No. I didn't say they couldn't trade anyone on the roster. They will probably have to in order to land Miller. But trading away 22 and 23 year olds making 2 or 3 million per year to squeeze JT Miller in for one year doesn't make much sense. You still have to fill those roster spots with guys making $750k-$1.5M. Is that going to improve the team? Do you think the Rangers are going to trade 3 or 4 roster players to make room for JT Miller for one season? Who are they offering that's going to beat out other teams offers?

 

[nergish]

I just listened to the Seravelli interview.

it honestly sounds like he is confident in this rumor and has inside knowledge.

He also makes it sound like that the return for Miller wouldnt be prospects and picks and more like young players on the roster already.

HF would explode if it involved LAffy , Kakko but probably more like Lundqvist Chytil.

As a Nucks fan, I really don't expect the return to be Laffy or Kakko. We want B.Schneider, maybe Kravtsov, and a high pick.

 

[bernmeister]

If Strome is anything other than a piece to balance salary, it would be an epic failure for Vancouver. A team needing to improve their RHD and their prospects and picks better not put any value into UFA to be in Strome.

Strome is what his market value is since he is not POS deadweight cap dump, possibly less small broker fee.
So Strome as a rental, no retention is worth a late 1st or a 2nd +. In this deal, he would be valued as a solid 2nd + VAN could try to re-sign or deal for more than the 2nd they paid.

It isn't Canuck fans wanting Miller traded to NY. It's a hockey insider stating NY is all over Miller. Your use of absolutes makes it seem like you think you're a lot more important than a fan with a computer and an irrational love for Broberg and a bizarre infatuation with Kravtsov playing C.

don't give a rat's ass about someone trying to generate clickbait.
NY may be more than interested, may even be "all over" Miller; but that doesn't mean we are gutting our team and overpaying.

We establish the offer. You decide to accept it or not. That's how this works.

I agree Lundkvist would probably be the ask over Jones, but you're dreaming if you think Kakko is available. He wasn't for Eichel, he isn't for Miller.

Realistically it's more like Kravtsov + Lundkvist & our '22 1st rounder.

Jones + Nils L are similar but we should not budge here.
Nils has a laser shot, most of our D do not. Nils will fit 3RD once Trouba goes and Schneider ups into 2RD.
So it is Jones or nothing of the 2. Consolation is he looks a lot like Fox; a lite version of Fox right now, but def looks like him. And he plays either side.

As to the offer, no that is way too much
Strome - 2nd + valued at 2nd Geo = 2nd Lindgren = 1st + and NY should not move Jones for less than a late 1st or a 2nd +.

Lindgren is good, young and as a lefty is easier for NY to replace w/Nils this yr [righty plays both sides] along w/Nemeth [lefty, ditto, both sides] and Robertson coming up.

Lindy has to be in the deal w/Miller at half or NY can't do it at all.
They still can't do it b'c there are follow up cap issues for Kakko + LaF etc $, but without this ^ it is not even possible to get that far.

Doubt there's roster turnover beyond Strome, maybe Geogiev and possible a 4th liner or 2. Pretty sure Drury/Slats understand the importance of playoff experience. Now if Dolan forces their hand, thats another story.

Strome needs to go now b'c we can't afford him at any # for any term and self rental getting nothing is stupid.
Geo has to go now b'c he plays well w/starter mins and there is only one set of them and they have Shesty's name. So either we go with Kinkaid/Huska vs weaker teams, or we can take on a guy like Halak who we can't afford next season, who is fine for this run and can return to VAN next yr if they/he wants.
Nemeth + Hajek, along w/recovery of Hank 1.5 buyout cap covers Zib + Fox.
But Lindy will likely have to go to get $ for KK LaF etc
Substituting Miller for Lindy will cause a problem.
MAYBE they can kick Reeves 1.7+ upstairs and rework a contract or 2 and sign 1 or 2 guys less in the short term to alternatively scratch that 3ish m for KK/LaF, but it will be tough.
Howev, JT can be added if both teams go there

The difference is your team does. Fans being disinterested doesnt mean you get a discount.

Yes, but the reciprocal is also true. Your demanding overpay, let alone massive overpay, is not something you get,
And there is a dif betw value and currency paid to establish that value,

NY should only consider the currency I am suggesting or no deal.

Kravtsov isn't coming back to NY, so a deal like this makes sense for his value, but where does Nils fit in with us when Schneider is the much better prospect? Our first this year is a late rounder so I'm not broken up including it. Sure, they're definitely prime assets, but Miller makes us a much better team & Vancouver isn't giving him away.

We have to expect to pay, but not overpay regardless of what VAN wants or expects. This is JTM, it is not LeoDrai.

We keep Schneider [who replaces Trouba first possible opportunity [and Nils is eventually 3RD w/some PP mins b'c of his shot].
They are not on the table.

That’s cool. May as well wait another few years and hope your prospects peak at the perfect time. Then try to go on a run. Or find a slightly lesser player to fill the void?

Or.... we could enjoy our significant ass kicking depth and increased cap flexibility which is only constrained temporarily while we wait to get a Trouba exit.

I think Kravstov/Othmann + Lundqvist + 2022 1st is an agreeable deal for both sides.
Personally i would like Barron + from the Avs.

NO way too much and wrong currency

Says you, other NYR fans have been good with Kravstov + Lundqvist + 2022 1st for Miller.

Not most of us, and certainly not those dealing in reality of smothering cap beg, next season. Now is the time for discipline and not excess.
A measured move that we can still weave about in -- mine w/Lindgren + JT at half is the only one -- that yes. Wrong currency/overpay, no.

I'd like to hear who you could realistically obtain that is 'better' for that price, lol. REALISTICALLY obtain, i.e fit within your cap.

How are you going to get 1C ability for what would amount to what a 3rd liner makes with maximum retention on Miller? For 1.5 seasons and 2 playoff runs.

As explained, we can't otherwise take in Miller b'c it weakens the team when we have to deal w/too much cap.
We can partially mitigate that if we do Lindgren 3 x 3 at full pop ++ for Miller at half. but even that does not get us fully off the hook as I explain above.

Just like you'd get a top 10 pick for Buch rightttt? You really know what your talking about.........

It is clear from this board that Oil were serious about Buch for top 10 selection WHEN HE HAD TERM ON A CHEAP DEAL.
Rangers got greedy and held on to him waiting til last second to deal him for a lot less.

In this particular case, I am right and the Rangers were wrong.
Hindsight demonstrates this is the case.

I don't have a lot of those, but we can go back to the idiocy of
Park + Ratelle
for
Espo + Vadnais

I call em like I see em, I got hits and misses, but your dig there is off the mark
Consider yourself refuted.

 

[sting101]

That's all well and good, but you won't get it from the Rangers. They have a #1 center and a pretty solid #2 center. Adding a center of Miller's caliber is a luxury, not a need. If Vancouver draws the line on two top prospects (which they are well within their rights to do), then the Rangers almost certainly move on to less expensive options. There's a reason more deals fall apart than actually happen. It has to be right for both sides.

completely reasonable response and i dont think the Rangers have to push the chips in yet either.

The great thing being a Ranger fan is that many players dream of playing in MSG and wearing that jersey. Patience usually is rewarded look at Panarin Trouba and Fox all wanted to be Rangers and it wouldn't hurt to let some of the kids get a year or 2 older.

 

[bernmeister]

I just listened to the Seravelli interview.

it honestly sounds like he is confident in this rumor and has inside knowledge.

He also makes it sound like that the return for Miller wouldnt be prospects and picks and more like young players on the roster already.

HF would explode if it involved LAffy , Kakko but probably more like Lundqvist Chytil.

that would be a HUMONGOUS mistake

those pieces cannot be made available as Chytil is nec to replace Strome who will NOT be here
and also Nils L should stay, Jones should go
and also
Lindgren has to go full pop w/Miller at half
anything else is massive stupidity

 

[UrbanImpact]

Report is that Rutherford has told teams to give him at least the end of this current road trip and to hire a GM before getting into serious trade talks.

Road Trip ends tonight
GM is rumored to be hired this week or latest next week

Trade Jim is about to do what he does!


If they have made a decision to trade Miller, I dont think they should wait until the trade deadline to do it.
One bad hit or injury to Miller and it can postpone any plans for a team being interested in him for that 2 playoff runs.

Trade him now

 

[mriswith]

That's all well and good, but you won't get it from the Rangers. They have a #1 center and a pretty solid #2 center. Adding a center of Miller's caliber is a luxury, not a need. If Vancouver draws the line on two top prospects (which they are well within their rights to do), then the Rangers almost certainly move on to less expensive options. There's a reason more deals fall apart than actually happen. It has to be right for both sides.

Rangers are in a weird position. They have a huge youth movement but are also heavily committed to old vets, almost 40 million committed to 28+ year olds.

They have to start contending before the vets decline, and they have too many youth for the number of available positions on the team, there isn't enough ice time for all their prospects, half of them will bust on lack of opportunity alone.

The window is probably Shesterkin's current contract. It makes a lot of sense for them to cash in their youth now and go for it. Whether Miller is the right piece and the right price, I don't know. I think they should have gone a lot harder after Eichel.

Strome should be gone next year, giving him his next contract is probably a bad move for the rangers. Miller gives them added ammo for a run this year, and solves the Strome problem for next year.

I'd be eager to pay up for Miller if I were the Rangers GM, but again I'm looking at it as the window is Shesterkin's current contract.

 

[sting101]

Report is that Rutherford has told teams to give him at least the end of this current road trip and to hire a GM before getting into serious trade talks.

Road Trip ends tonight
GM is rumored to be hired this week or latest next week

Trade Jim is about to do what he does!


If they have made a decision to trade Miller, I dont think they should wait until the trade deadline to do it.
One bad hit or injury to Miller and it can postpone any plans for a team being interested in him for that 2 playoff runs.

Trade him now

Trader Jim throwing in the towel for this year?

 

[Machinehead]

No. I didn't say they couldn't trade anyone on the roster. They will probably have to in order to land Miller. But trading away 22 and 23 year olds making 2 or 3 million per year to squeeze JT Miller in for one year doesn't make much sense. You still have to fill those roster spots with guys making $750k-$1.5M. Is that going to improve the team? Do you think the Rangers are going to trade 3 or 4 roster players to make room for JT Miller for one season? Who are they offering that's going to beat out other teams offers?

Barron can easily take over for Chytil and Nemeth is like our 10th best D.

And I'm not saying I would go out and do this at all. It depends entirely on the price.

Point is, it's a bit ridiculous to say the Rangers can't do this when they could swallow Miller's salary twice over this year.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Strome is what his market value is since he is not POS deadweight cap dump, possibly less small broker fee.
So Strome as a rental, no retention is worth a late 1st or a 2nd +. In this deal, he would be valued as a solid 2nd + VAN could try to re-sign or deal for more than the 2nd they paid.



don't give a rat's ass about someone trying to generate clickbait.
NY may be more than interested, may even be "all over" Miller; but that doesn't mean we are gutting our team and overpaying.

We establish the offer. You decide to accept it or not. That's how this works.



Jones + Nils L are similar but we should not budge here.
Nils has a laser shot, most of our D do not. Nils will fit 3RD once Trouba goes and Schneider ups into 2RD.
So it is Jones or nothing of the 2. Consolation is he looks a lot like Fox; a lite version of Fox right now, but def looks like him. And he plays either side.

As to the offer, no that is way too much
Strome - 2nd + valued at 2nd Geo = 2nd Lindgren = 1st + and NY should not move Jones for less than a late 1st or a 2nd +.

Lindgren is good, young and as a lefty is easier for NY to replace w/Nils this yr [righty plays both sides] along w/Nemeth [lefty, ditto, both sides] and Robertson coming up.

Lindy has to be in the deal w/Miller at half or NY can't do it at all.
They still can't do it b'c there are follow up cap issues for Kakko + LaF etc $, but without this ^ it is not even possible to get that far.




Strome needs to go now b'c we can't afford him at any # for any term and self rental getting nothing is stupid.
Geo has to go now b'c he plays well w/starter mins and there is only one set of them and they have Shesty's name. So either we go with Kinkaid/Huska vs weaker teams, or we can take on a guy like Halak who we can't afford next season, who is fine for this run and can return to VAN next yr if they/he wants.
Nemeth + Hajek, along w/recovery of Hank 1.5 buyout cap covers Zib + Fox.
But Lindy will likely have to go to get $ for KK LaF etc
Substituting Miller for Lindy will cause a problem.
MAYBE they can kick Reeves 1.7+ upstairs and rework a contract or 2 and sign 1 or 2 guys less in the short term to alternatively scratch that 3ish m for KK/LaF, but it will be tough.
Howev, JT can be added if both teams go there



Yes, but the reciprocal is also true. Your demanding overpay, let alone massive overpay, is not something you get,
And there is a dif betw value and currency paid to establish that value,

NY should only consider the currency I am suggesting or no deal.



We have to expect to pay, but not overpay regardless of what VAN wants or expects. This is JTM, it is not LeoDrai.

We keep Schneider [who replaces Trouba first possible opportunity [and Nils is eventually 3RD w/some PP mins b'c of his shot].
They are not on the table.



Or.... we could enjoy our significant ass kicking depth and increased cap flexibility which is only constrained temporarily while we wait to get a Trouba exit.



NO way too much and wrong currency



Not most of us, and certainly not those dealing in reality of smothering cap beg, next season. Now is the time for discipline and not excess.
A measured move that we can still weave about in -- mine w/Lindgren + JT at half is the only one -- that yes. Wrong currency/overpay, no.



As explained, we can't otherwise take in Miller b'c it weakens the team when we have to deal w/too much cap.
We can partially mitigate that if we do Lindgren 3 x 3 at full pop ++ for Miller at half. but even that does not get us fully off the hook as I explain above.



It is clear from this board that Oil were serious about Buch for top 10 selection WHEN HE HAD TERM ON A CHEAP DEAL.
Rangers got greedy and held on to him waiting til last second to deal him for a lot less.

In this particular case, I am right and the Rangers were wrong.
Hindsight demonstrates this is the case.

I don't have a lot of those, but we can go back to the idiocy of
Park + Ratelle
for
Espo + Vadnais

I call em like I see em, I got hits and misses, but your dig there is off the mark
Consider yourself refuted.

I tried to read more than your response to me, but even that was painful.
The only power the Rangers have in a potential deal is to not do it. Miller will be coveted by every buyer this year and will garner a large return. Your idea of "take this player or we won't deal with you"doesnt exist in a world where team A calls about player for team B. Canucks set the terms of what we want, and Rangers either walk away or pay up. As a fan it is easy to say they will walk away, but if they are serious they will pay.

Trouba makes 8m, has a NMC 2 seasons after this and then M-NTC after. Do you really think that teams will
A) Want to acquire Trouba at 8m a season, when he isn't really worth it now
Or
B) the teams he is willing to go to either wanting him, or having the cap to get him

You guys are stuck with him for 4 more years after this.

 

[Boondock]

Strome is what his market value is since he is not POS deadweight cap dump, possibly less small broker fee.
So Strome as a rental, no retention is worth a late 1st or a 2nd +. In this deal, he would be valued as a solid 2nd + VAN could try to re-sign or deal for more than the 2nd they paid.
Canucks are in no position to be re-signing a player that will be 29 when the new contract begins and will be looking for a raise. If this was the case, we would be better keeping the better player Miller. If Strome needs to be traded and you see the value, trade him and use the assets as part of the Miller deal. The Canucks don't want to be forced to move an up coming UFA in order to get full value for Miller. No Strome in the Miller deal - pretty simple actually.


don't give a rat's ass about someone trying to generate clickbait.
NY may be more than interested, may even be "all over" Miller; but that doesn't mean we are gutting our team and overpaying.

We establish the offer. You decide to accept it or not. That's how this works.

Not how it actually works but in this fake trade form you act as dominating as you want. I have never tried to gut a team in a Miller trade. If you're referencing the small minority that proposed lop-sided trades, reply to them - not me. "We establish the offer"......internet tough guy much?

Jones + Nils L are similar but we should not budge here.
Nils has a laser shot, most of our D do not. Nils will fit 3RD once Trouba goes and Schneider ups into 2RD.
So it is Jones or nothing of the 2. Consolation is he looks a lot like Fox; a lite version of Fox right now, but def looks like him. And he plays either side.

As to the offer, no that is way too much
Strome - 2nd + valued at 2nd Geo = 2nd Lindgren = 1st + and NY should not move Jones for less than a late 1st or a 2nd +.

Lindgren is good, young and as a lefty is easier for NY to replace w/Nils this yr [righty plays both sides] along w/Nemeth [lefty, ditto, both sides] and Robertson coming up.

Lindy has to be in the deal w/Miller at half or NY can't do it at all.
They still can't do it b'c there are follow up cap issues for Kakko + LaF etc $, but without this ^ it is not even possible to get that far.




Strome needs to go now b'c we can't afford him at any # for any term and self rental getting nothing is stupid.
Geo has to go now b'c he plays well w/starter mins and there is only one set of them and they have Shesty's name. So either we go with Kinkaid/Huska vs weaker teams, or we can take on a guy like Halak who we can't afford next season, who is fine for this run and can return to VAN next yr if they/he wants.
Nemeth + Hajek, along w/recovery of Hank 1.5 buyout cap covers Zib + Fox.
But Lindy will likely have to go to get $ for KK LaF etc
Substituting Miller for Lindy will cause a problem.
MAYBE they can kick Reeves 1.7+ upstairs and rework a contract or 2 and sign 1 or 2 guys less in the short term to alternatively scratch that 3ish m for KK/LaF, but it will be tough.
Howev, JT can be added if both teams go there



Yes, but the reciprocal is also true. Your demanding overpay, let alone massive overpay, is not something you get,
And there is a dif betw value and currency paid to establish that value,

NY should only consider the currency I am suggesting or no deal.

I'm surprised the Rangers didn't name you GM

We have to expect to pay, but not overpay regardless of what VAN wants or expects. This is JTM, it is not LeoDrai.

We keep Schneider [who replaces Trouba first possible opportunity [and Nils is eventually 3RD w/some PP mins b'c of his shot].
They are not on the table.



Or.... we could enjoy our significant ass kicking depth and increased cap flexibility which is only constrained temporarily while we wait to get a Trouba exit.



NO way too much and wrong currency



Not most of us, and certainly not those dealing in reality of smothering cap beg, next season. Now is the time for discipline and not excess.
A measured move that we can still weave about in -- mine w/Lindgren + JT at half is the only one -- that yes. Wrong currency/overpay, no.



As explained, we can't otherwise take in Miller b'c it weakens the team when we have to deal w/too much cap.
We can partially mitigate that if we do Lindgren 3 x 3 at full pop ++ for Miller at half. but even that does not get us fully off the hook as I explain above.



It is clear from this board that Oil were serious about Buch for top 10 selection WHEN HE HAD TERM ON A CHEAP DEAL.
Rangers got greedy and held on to him waiting til last second to deal him for a lot less.

In this particular case, I am right and the Rangers were wrong.
Hindsight demonstrates this is the case.

I don't have a lot of those, but we can go back to the idiocy of
Park + Ratelle
for
Espo + Vadnais

I call em like I see em, I got hits and misses, but your dig there is off the mark
Consider yourself refuted.

 

[smoneil]

Rangers are in a weird position. They have a huge youth movement but are also heavily committed to old vets, almost 40 million committed to 28+ year olds.

They have to start contending before the vets decline, and they have too many youth for the number of available positions on the team, there isn't enough ice time for all their prospects, half of them will bust on lack of opportunity alone.

The window is probably Shesterkin's current contract. It makes a lot of sense for them to cash in their youth now and go for it. Whether Miller is the right piece and the right price, I don't know. I think they should have gone a lot harder after Eichel.

Strome should be gone next year, giving him his next contract is probably a bad move for the rangers. Miller gives them added ammo for a run this year, and solves the Strome problem for next year.

I'd be eager to pay up for Miller if I were the Rangers GM, but again I'm looking at it as the window is Shesterkin's current contract.

See, I think part of the issue just generally on these boards is that people think having players aged 28-30 means that they have to win right this second. Four of the current top ten scorers are 31+ Chris Kreider is having the best year of his career, and he's about to turn 31 in April. Players don't just turn 30 and then transform from McDavid into an ECHL scrub.

The Rangers can let the team develop naturally and be in a better position to compete in two years, when Kreider/Bread will still be 32/33 years old, Trouba/Zib will be 30, and everyone else will still be 25 or younger.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I tried to read more than your response to me, but even that was painful.
The only power the Rangers have in a potential deal is to not do it. Miller will be coveted by every buyer this year and will garner a large return. Your idea of "take this player or we won't deal with you"doesnt exist in a world where team A calls about player for team B. Canucks set the terms of what we want, and Rangers either walk away or pay up. As a fan it is easy to say they will walk away, but if they are serious they will pay.

Trouba makes 8m, has a NMC 2 seasons after this and then M-NTC after. Do you really think that teams will
A) Want to acquire Trouba at 8m a season, when he isn't really worth it now
Or
B) the teams he is willing to go to either wanting him, or having the cap to get him

You guys are stuck with him for 4 more years after this.

We could always retain 25% in a year or two. Moving Trouba when the time comes won't be the giant issue you think it will.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Rick Nash asked for a trade and had a much higher salary not to mention a NTC, that's not even bringing up the fact that your comparable trade was almost 10 years ago.

This comparison is not only a reach it completely ignored context. WOW

And he was a better player
And he was signed for more years

 

[mriswith]

See, I think part of the issue just generally on these boards is that people think having players aged 28-30 means that they have to win right this second. Four of the current top ten scorers are 31+ Chris Kreider is having the best year of his career, and he's about to turn 31 in April. Players don't just turn 30 and then transform from McDavid into an ECHL scrub.

The Rangers can let the team develop naturally and be in a better position to compete in two years, when Kreider/Bread will still be 32/33 years old, Trouba/Zib will be 30, and everyone else will still be 25 or younger.

It's less that 30 years olds are declining, and more that winning a cup generally requires several years of being a top tier contender to give yourself a shot. Deliberately waiting until Kreider/Bread are 32/33 years old to open that window greatly limits how long the window is open.

It's also cap related. You have some huge cap advantages this season, but every year for the next several years the cap advantage will take big hits, culminating when Shesterkin needs a new contract. It's like how the Avs should be going all in right now - even though they're a young team, their cap structure has some cataclysmic events starting in two years and the need to win now is urgent

 

[LuLover96]

NY should only consider the currency I am suggesting or no deal.

You’re not getting a top player for scraps dude but go off I guess. “Your currency” consists of nothing but throw-ins on HF proposals from the last 3 years. If you think you can get JT without a piece of real value, then I’m sorry but you don’t understand how these negotiations work.

While we’re on the subject, can we trade Poolman, Sutter, Myers, Halak, two seconds and will Lockwood for Zibanejad?

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Strome is what his market value is since he is not POS deadweight cap dump, possibly less small broker fee.
So Strome as a rental, no retention is worth a late 1st or a 2nd +. In this deal, he would be valued as a solid 2nd + VAN could try to re-sign or deal for more than the 2nd they paid.



don't give a rat's ass about someone trying to generate clickbait.
NY may be more than interested, may even be "all over" Miller; but that doesn't mean we are gutting our team and overpaying.

We establish the offer. You decide to accept it or not. That's how this works.



Jones + Nils L are similar but we should not budge here.
Nils has a laser shot, most of our D do not. Nils will fit 3RD once Trouba goes and Schneider ups into 2RD.
So it is Jones or nothing of the 2. Consolation is he looks a lot like Fox; a lite version of Fox right now, but def looks like him. And he plays either side.

As to the offer, no that is way too much
Strome - 2nd + valued at 2nd Geo = 2nd Lindgren = 1st + and NY should not move Jones for less than a late 1st or a 2nd +.

Lindgren is good, young and as a lefty is easier for NY to replace w/Nils this yr [righty plays both sides] along w/Nemeth [lefty, ditto, both sides] and Robertson coming up.

Lindy has to be in the deal w/Miller at half or NY can't do it at all.
They still can't do it b'c there are follow up cap issues for Kakko + LaF etc $, but without this ^ it is not even possible to get that far.




Strome needs to go now b'c we can't afford him at any # for any term and self rental getting nothing is stupid.
Geo has to go now b'c he plays well w/starter mins and there is only one set of them and they have Shesty's name. So either we go with Kinkaid/Huska vs weaker teams, or we can take on a guy like Halak who we can't afford next season, who is fine for this run and can return to VAN next yr if they/he wants.
Nemeth + Hajek, along w/recovery of Hank 1.5 buyout cap covers Zib + Fox.
But Lindy will likely have to go to get $ for KK LaF etc
Substituting Miller for Lindy will cause a problem.
MAYBE they can kick Reeves 1.7+ upstairs and rework a contract or 2 and sign 1 or 2 guys less in the short term to alternatively scratch that 3ish m for KK/LaF, but it will be tough.
Howev, JT can be added if both teams go there



Yes, but the reciprocal is also true. Your demanding overpay, let alone massive overpay, is not something you get,
And there is a dif betw value and currency paid to establish that value,

NY should only consider the currency I am suggesting or no deal.



We have to expect to pay, but not overpay regardless of what VAN wants or expects. This is JTM, it is not LeoDrai.

We keep Schneider [who replaces Trouba first possible opportunity [and Nils is eventually 3RD w/some PP mins b'c of his shot].
They are not on the table.



Or.... we could enjoy our significant ass kicking depth and increased cap flexibility which is only constrained temporarily while we wait to get a Trouba exit.



NO way too much and wrong currency



Not most of us, and certainly not those dealing in reality of smothering cap beg, next season. Now is the time for discipline and not excess.
A measured move that we can still weave about in -- mine w/Lindgren + JT at half is the only one -- that yes. Wrong currency/overpay, no.



As explained, we can't otherwise take in Miller b'c it weakens the team when we have to deal w/too much cap.
We can partially mitigate that if we do Lindgren 3 x 3 at full pop ++ for Miller at half. but even that does not get us fully off the hook as I explain above.



It is clear from this board that Oil were serious about Buch for top 10 selection WHEN HE HAD TERM ON A CHEAP DEAL.
Rangers got greedy and held on to him waiting til last second to deal him for a lot less.

In this particular case, I am right and the Rangers were wrong.
Hindsight demonstrates this is the case.

I don't have a lot of those, but we can go back to the idiocy of
Park + Ratelle
for
Espo + Vadnais

I call em like I see em, I got hits and misses, but your dig there is off the mark
Consider yourself refuted.

Yah but you continued to push the narrative well past that time, you said it up until he got traded with your own fanbase calling you nuts, it just proves your bias makes you completely incapable of being rational when it comes to other teams. Thinking that you could get Pod and a retained Miller without giving up one top prospect shows this even more, it delusional thinking.