Proposal: Scheifele for Toews?

[Maukkis]

Interesting trade idea. It's the kind of Subban-for-Weber trade that never happens, except those happen now.

Scheifle would be hard to give up for Winnipeg, but you'd have to think with all things considered that Toews would be hard to pass up on.

One thing which I haven't seen posted here ia that we're talking about Winnipeg, the place where FAs rarely want to go to. Scheifele literally wanted to sign for eight years, which is remarkable for us.

It's not like Scheifele for Toews would leave us crippled, but trading players who are that willing to stay in Winnipeg long term would not help us one bit.

 

[ijuka]

Oh, I even forgot to mention but Toews's contract makes this trade even more Hawks-favored even if we ignore the age. And as for Toews even being a better player next season, that's very debatable. For instance, if we look at this:

It predicts that Scheifele will not only be better at possession but will have better production as well.

As for intangibles, that might be a factor if it was someone like Evander Kane we were talking about, but it's hardly worth mentioning when it's concerning Scheifele.

 

[DontToewzMeBro]

Contracts are important but man...

Laine- Toews - Wheeler

Winnipeg structure your cap.

Toews + Kempney = 11.3 on cap

What's Enstrom + Schief = ??????

Enstrom + Schief = around 12 million
Toews + Campbell = 13.5

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I'd find Bowman and kick him square in the nuts.

 

[Stej]

Please show me the resource you used where they show the metric that Scheifele has comparable intangibles to Toews. I'll wait...

In terms of intangibles, Toews is one of the few players in the entire league that I'd put ahead of Scheifele.

Scheif is an absolute gym rat, he is a student of the game (a self-admitted "hockey geek"), he's amazing in the community, his teammates love him, he busts his ass both ways for every shift, and his focus on the details is obvious. He also stepped up in a massive way when the chips were down and Little got injured last year (over a PPG).

If your point is that Toews edges him slightly in terms of intangibles, then I agree. If you think Scheif is some sort of one-dimensional scorer that doesn't focus on anything else, then I respectfully disagree.

Why are people so incredulous that Jets fans would rather keep Scheifele after also considering age, career arc, growth potential, contract dollars, contract term, and team development cycle?

Yet somehow people will continue to interpret my last statement as me suggesting that Scheifele is the better player now. Wowsers.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Please show me the resource you used where they show the metric that Scheifele has comparable intangibles to Toews. I'll wait...

Isn't the term "intangible" itself used to describe things that can't really be explained using evidence? You basically just asked for evidence to support something that there is no true evidence to support in regards to any scenario.

 

[Leafsrock95]

lol this is too funny Shef isn't that good.

Add Trouba and Chicago thinks about it.

 

[JetsHomer]

lol this is too funny Shef isn't that good.

Add Trouba and Chicago thinks about it.

Yeah the guy that lead the league in scoring for the final 25 games 'isn't that good'

 

[dj33habs]

Yeah the guy that lead the league in scoring for the final 25 games 'isn't that good'

Sorry buddy scoring a bunch of points at the end of the year when your team is crap , frankly don't mean crap.
See Joe Colborne

 

[nbwingsfan]

Chicago says no (fairly) for sentimental reasons. Winnipeg says no because of trade value.

This is the correct answer. Toews is a Blackhawk for the rest of his career (deserved) but when you include cap hit, age and production than scheifele is the more valuable player IMO.

If Toews was closer to $7M this would be a closer choice.

 

[cassac]

Toews can carry a team in the playoffs on his back if he has a great crazy support casts like in 2010 2013 2014 2015. Without that crazy supporting cast but still good like in 2011 2012 2015. He is not able to carry the Hawks and lead them into the second round.

Funny thing is his Toews intangibles only worKs when he Is on a stacked team.

Dude, what is your problem with Toews? Did he beat you up and take your lunch money or something when you were kids? You came and spewed this garbage on the Blackhawks page and were constantly shown how your opinion is incorrect but refused to see it and now you are regurgitating the same thing.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Scheifele has more upside, Toews just has more flexibility, intensity and grit.

 

[Hunter368]

Not sure why people even debating it, both are great players and neither team would do this trade.

Hawks are in a win now mode and would choose their proven Captain.

Jets are building towards being a contender in a few years and clearly want the younger guy, smaller cap hit.

There is no debate imo.

 

[mondo3]

One intangible plus for Toews is that he has cup rings and would also make a good captain. However, I would prefer to keep Scheif as he seems to be improving each year and it's kind of nice to watch a team develop from draft to hopefully cup.

 

[AvsGuy]

One thing which I haven't seen posted here ia that we're talking about Winnipeg, the place where FAs rarely want to go to. Scheifele literally wanted to sign for eight years, which is remarkable for us.

It's not like Scheifele for Toews would leave us crippled, but trading players who are that willing to stay in Winnipeg long term would not help us one bit.

Isn't Toews from Winnipeg though? I get your point but he'd probably retire there, and the Jets would get his prime for another 5ish years which is pretty stellar.

 

[Koonta]

Stupid proposal. Now posters are ragging on a really good young player just coming into his own and saying ridiculous things like he isn't very good.

Curse this proposal to hell.

 

[Koonta]

Sorry buddy scoring a bunch of points at the end of the year when your team is crap , frankly don't mean crap.
See Joe Colborne

Yeah Scheifele and Joe Colborne are not even remotely comparable. Nice try

 

[AvsGuy]

Stupid proposal. Now posters are ragging on a really good young player just coming into his own and saying ridiculous things like he isn't very good.

Curse this proposal to hell.

He's a great young player for sure, but the chances he ends up as good as Toews is and will be for the next 5-7 years are slim to none.

 

[nbwingsfan]

He's a great young player for sure, but the chances he ends up as good as Toews is and will be for the next 5-7 years are slim to none.

He was arguably the better player just last season...

 

[AvsGuy]

He was arguably the better player just last season...

No, he really wasn't.

 

[Pongs21]

It's really not a debate, Toews is much more and holds way more value than Scheifele. Coming from a Jets fan whos favorite player is Scheifele. We would be lucky if Scheifele turns out to be anything like Toews.

 

[Koonta]

He's a great young player for sure, but the chances he ends up as good as Toews is and will be for the next 5-7 years are slim to none.

I might give somewhat better odds but generally agree with your sentiment as Scheifele has more to prove yet. As a Jet fan considering all the factors though age, contract, development cycle of the team, I wouldn't be in favour of this trade.

Just dumb that even was put forth, an up and comer being put in a trade proposal for one of the top players in the league is just dumb.

 

[Smeagoal]

I'll give my 2 cents.

As a fan of neither team, i'll give my unbiased opinion.

Toews has a knack for game breaking ability. Something I've only seen in a handful of players. I've seen Toews take over a period/game and completely change the tempo. Keep in mind I've seen this against the Canucks quite often but I'll give you a few examples.
In VAN 2011 cup run when we were up 3-1 on CHI, it was pretty much a done deal/series. Toews went full ham, and clutched the next 3 games and literally set up Sharp with a glorious chance to end the series. I've seen him do this multiple times. I recall him taking over in the OT game against ANA in the playoffs this year and scoring the eventual GWG (CHI fans prob have a lot more examples).

As for Scheifele I don't see a young Toews. I see a very good top Center in the league who is going to put up more points than Toews IMO, but I have yet to see that game-breaking ability that comes from playing and leading your team in the playoffs year in-out. Scheifele albeit is young and has not had a chance to prove his worth in the playoffs. I just have a hard time seeing him being as effective against the top of the top competition that comes from a 7-game series. Facing the same teams #1 Defensive unit will grind a player down, I've seen Toews rise to the occasion, I've also seen him fall, and fall hard, but the ups outweigh the downs. (3 cup rings baby )

tl;dr; I wouldn't trade Toews for Scheifele straight up at the moment (in a couple years, yes I would).

 

[Whileee]

Jets fans are approaching an interesting level of arrogance and obnoxiousness for a team that just picked 2nd overall...

I predict that the Hawks-Jets rivalry will become epic in the coming few seasons.

 

[Stuzchuk]

I'll give my 2 cents.

As a fan of neither team, i'll give my unbiased opinion.

Toews has a knack for game breaking ability. Something I've only seen in a handful of players. I've seen Toews take over a period/game and completely change the tempo. Keep in mind I've seen this against the Canucks quite often but I'll give you a few examples.
In VAN 2011 cup run when we were up 3-1 on CHI, it was pretty much a done deal/series. Toews went full ham, and clutched the next 3 games and literally set up Sharp with a glorious chance to end the series. I've seen him do this multiple times. I recall him taking over in the OT game against ANA in the playoffs this year and scoring the eventual GWG (CHI fans prob have a lot more examples).

As for Scheifele I don't see a young Toews. I see a very good top Center in the league who is going to put up more points than Toews IMO, but I have yet to see that game-breaking ability that comes from playing and leading your team in the playoffs year in-out. Scheifele albeit is young and has not had a chance to prove his worth in the playoffs. I just have a hard time seeing him being as effective against the top of the top competition that comes from a 7-game series. Facing the same teams #1 Defensive unit will grind a player down, I've seen Toews rise to the occasion, I've also seen him fall, and fall hard, but the ups outweigh the downs. (3 cup rings baby )

tl;dr; I wouldn't trade Toews for Scheifele straight up at the moment (in a couple years, yes I would).

I have to agree... well said sir!