Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie

[Cup or Bust]

wrong thread

 

[Fjordy]

This is similar to the Malenstyn trade....good addition bad price.

The issue that makes the Malenstyn trade worse is that it was done before markets opened. I.e. Adams didn't know if he could fill that role for free.

With this trade, Adams had already found out that he could, in fact, not fill the role for free. So he had to go out and overpay

Both are overpays, no doubt about it. A contender or better market wouldn't have had to pay this price. But we are at where we are at.

If Savoie does great in Edmonton, then we'll add it to tally of Adams sending out former high draft picks for meh returns.

If Savoie busts and McCleod does great....then Adams gets a gold star.

Well, that's not exactly true, Adams wanted Malenstyn specifically because of his speed. Look who they added, McLeod, NAK, Lafferty, Malenstyn, they also wanted Necas or Ehlers. These are all very fast players. So I'm not sure UFA had such a player. Malenstyn also hits a lot.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

We've been round the houses enough already re Byram - it's you who keeping bringing your opinion up about him in every thread - not me.

Much of this thread is about the overpay to acquire McLeod. The overpay is directly connected to the huge roster hole left behind by the Byram/Mitts trade. What has subtly gone unnoticed and un-credited to my stance on all this - clearly I was right about that hole, and how Krebs was not the guy to take that roster spot. Why else would KA make this trade for McLeod with what the vast majority of the hockey world sees as a steep price in Savoie?

I came in to defend the trade, and the only way to defend it is to realize and reference the huge roster hole left after trading Mitts. The roster hole that many posters here defended with propping Krebs up to be a player he is not. It had to be filled, and the overpay of Savoie fairly well shows that. So I wasn't just inserting my opinion on that trade for the sake of it.

 

[BFLO]

Adams is officially the anti tim Murray

Tim Murray gave up as much as it took to get his guys and fans loved each move

Adams finally does it and he gets roasted

Murray never traded away an asset as valuable as a recent #9 overall for something as cheap as a 3rd/4th line pivot.

Savoie was injured in the last prospect tournament game.. He was never at training camp .. he never played any preseason games. He was never making the team last year because he wasn't ready. That was shown when he got his 1 NHL game and his AHL games.

I don't know how or why this narrative of making the team last year even got started.

He scored 5 points in 6 AHL games. Looked pretty darn ready. Really small sample size, but if he had been able to play a full season in the AHL this year and had kept that pace he would have been the Amerks #1 scorer.

Only reason he went back to the WHL is because he still needed his 4th CHL seasons because of the missing covid season.

 

[Fjordy]

It's a terrible trade for Buffalo simply because McLeod is not that good. Buffalo fans are going to be sorely disappointed in McLeod after about 20 games when he as 3 or 4 points regardless of what they traded for to get him. He doesn't really add much or make a team better. The type of player he is and what he actually does does not hold much value. If you acquire McLeod for a 2nd rounder (Which is absolutely all he is worth) as a depth player, then he is okay, but he is not any kind of core player or difference maker.

Savoie is small, he looked like crap at WJC, he wasn't even in our top 5 prospects. He has a long injury history. Next up is Nic Petan.

 

[Samsonite23]

Something I don’t think has been brought up: Jerry Forton in his elevated role. Kevyn almost certainly leaned on Forton pretty heavily when conjuring this move up.

I would bet that Forton had some pretty positive things to say about McLeod’s room to grow (in terms of game, not size) compared to Savoie’s despite their ages.

Forton isn’t going to let a guy go he drafted that high that recently unless the guy coming back is someone of similar caliber. And Forton seems to be pretty damn good at projecting young players’ trajectories. Maybe in his head, he missed slightly on Savoie. Whatever, it happens. Move on and fill a hole in the roster. But it’s pretty clear Savoie was the one they were moving for one reason or another. They’re the ones with all of the first hand knowledge. Tough to have the full picture as a fan from the outside.

It’s either he sees reachable potential in McLeod or sees a lack of potential in Savoie. I bet it’s some of both. But either way, it gives me some comfort that Forton is in this braintrust and he seems to be pretty damn good at what he does.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

GMKA replaced Half of the team. Skinner, Girgensons,Okposo,Robinson, VO, Mitts, Jost, gone

That vet leadership that decided that the rally point of the team was not to salute the fans after wins.

When we traded the second to Washington. One of their fans said that it was an overpay and he assumed that every team had a bunch of 4th liners ready to come up. Sabres have not developed those. Rousek is close but no cigar

With the latest changes, prospects don’t just need to wait their turn. They have to displace someone from the lineup by earning it

It cost Savoie. I think worth it.

 

[Bobby Bottle Service]

Murray never traded away an asset as valuable as a recent #9 overall for something as cheap as a 3rd/4th line pivot.

He scored 5 points in 6 AHL games. Looked pretty darn ready. Really small sample size, but if he had been able to play a full season in the AHL this year and had kept that pace he would have been the Amerks #1 scorer.

Only reason he went back to the WHL is because he still needed his 4th CHL seasons because of the missing covid season.

Savoie also got scratched in the AHL playoffs because he was getting manhandled.

It's a small sample size.

The way I see it is that GMKA is dealing from a position of strength (surplus of small talented forwards) for a position of need (3rd line center and increased team speed).

Savoie was getting passed on the depth chart and Konstanza made him expendable.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

This is similar to the Malenstyn trade....good addition bad price.

The issue that makes the Malenstyn trade worse is that it was done before markets opened. I.e. Adams didn't know if he could fill that role for free.

With this trade, Adams had already found out that he could, in fact, not fill the role for free. So he had to go out and overpay

Both are overpays, no doubt about it. A contender or better market wouldn't have had to pay this price. But we are at where we are at.

If Savoie does great in Edmonton, then we'll add it to tally of Adams sending out former high draft picks for meh returns.

If Savoie busts and McCleod does great....then Adams gets a gold star.

It's all about the price. If Adams gets maybe a B+ prospect or a 2nd rounder out of Edmonton instead of an AHL guy with an outside NHL chance, the conversation be different. The result could be the same long term. Prospects are constantly overrated. For every Tage Thompson breaking through, there are way more failures.

 

[old kummelweck]

Something I don’t think has been brought up: Jerry Forton in his elevated role. Kevyn almost certainly leaned on Forton pretty heavily when conjuring this move up.

I would bet that Forton had some pretty positive things to say about McLeod’s room to grow (in terms of game, not size) compared to Savoie’s despite theirs ages.

Forton isn’t going to let a guy go he drafted that high that recently unless the guy coming back is someone of similar caliber. And Forton seems to be pretty damn good at projecting young players’ trajectories. Maybe in his head, he missed slightly on Savoie. Whatever, it happens. Move on and fill a hole in the roster. But it’s pretty clear Savoie was the one they were moving for one reason or another. They’re the ones with all of the first hand knowledge. Tough to have the full picture as a fan from the outside.

It’s either he sees reachable potential in McLeod or sees a lack of potential in Savoie. I bet it’s some of both. But either way, it gives me some comfort that Forton is in this braintrust and he seems to be pretty damn good at what he does.

This can be an asset or a deficiency. You really need to lean on your pro scouting and analytics if you are composing a roster. Obviously he would have had a hand in this, but there is a dangerous window of trading for upside before you are drafting what should have been.

I think in this case, the upside is just a plus, but hopefully they are only counting on the player they've seen on the ice at the NHL level, and that is where they want them to slot.

 

[MOGlLNY]

A standard checking line C is never a core player (unless he's Madden from the 90s Devils). Other Oilers fans say he's good defensively, using his speed to win pucks or create TOs. Those are good things. Now if he plays soft and is a perimeter player that's no good, but to say he won't add anything seems like an agenda. He's a regular NHLer that has good metrics with at least SOME type of a game that the Sabres lack. That's not nothing.

He’s also the only player on Edmonton who won his 5v5 minutes while away from McDavid and Drai.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Trade grades: Sabres sacrifice upside in McLeod-Savoie swap

www.thescore.com

Interesting take here ...

"12 goals and 18 assists is nothing to scoff at for a 24-year-old center who didn't get power-play time and who most commonly played with Warren Foegele and Corey Perry at five-on-five."

With the departure of Mitts and Skinner, some PP2 spots are in play. McLeod should have a shot at one, and then we might see a 40 point player.

Otoh, I wonder how many of his 30 points were scored playing on Draisaitl's wing?

 

[HOOats]

Exciting deal (to be offline for).

-We have an older, faster, bigger, more defensively sound roster now that should insulate and complement all our rising skill.

-Value is only a slight overpay. McLeod is an elite D/PK 3C with 0.5 PPG upside, size, and speed who is entering his prime, under team control, and from the region. That's a crucial piece we've been lacking forever.

-I don't buy that Adams necessarily devalued our similar prospects. Savoie still held very good value. It costs a significant piece like him to acquire young established, controlled guys at premium positions, especially in the current NHL trade climate.

-Happy we sent Savoie west, if we ever have to worry about him it's in the SCF. I expect him to thrive.

-I'd love to know how this negotiation went. Was Savoie Edmonton's target from the beginning? Feels likely with the Canadian factor. I wonder if Adams was trying to give them Ostlund at the draft and finally relented. Or did he protect Kulich (who could become a 50-goal scorer next to 97)?

-Glad to see the calls for Adams's head have mostly disappeared. Judging him so early in the summer (in some cases before it even started) was always absurd. Patience is indeed a virtue in matters we have no control over.

 

[Samsonite23]

This can be an asset or a deficiency. You really need to lean on your pro scouting and analytics if you are composing a roster. Obviously he would have had a hand in this, but there is a dangerous window of trading for upside before you are drafting what should have been.

I think in this case, the upside is just a plus, but hopefully they are only counting on the player they've seen on the ice at the NHL level, and that is where they want them to slot.

I mean, they clearly used the analytics teams. McLeod’s metrics are very good. Im not implying that they didn’t. Just pointing out I’m glad that Forton is in on the process because I think he’s good at what he does.

You will find out soon enough once you watch him for 10 or 20 games. You certainly won't disagree at that point, so we can discuss it again then if you want.

Pretty sure we all have exactly zero interest in discussing it with you then. Read the room my guy.

 

[Dingo44]

Savoie was getting passed on the depth chart and Konstanza made him expendable.

 

[HOOats]

With the departure of Mitts and Skinner, some PP2 spots are in play. McLeod should have a shot at one, and then we might see a 40 point player.

I could see McLeod playing F1 and net front on PP2. Speed entries either on the carry or dump, then parking in front once we have possession.

He sounds on the softer side, but a bunch of his goal/assist highlights are on either end of close-range link ups from the rear/side of the net.

 

[Old Boys Club]

He’s also the only player on Edmonton who won his 5v5 minutes while away from McDavid and Drai.

Depends on what you mean by 'won'. Outchanced and outpossessed yes, but away from Drai (where he had a 12 point in ~14 game spurt and GF/GA was 14-5), GF/GA for McLeod was 25-25. As you will see, he plays the style of game where he easily out-possess opponents with his speed and agility along the perimeter and in transition, but has a hard time converting on chances.

 

[Sabre the Win]

They're betting big on Quinn..

Quinn is a legit prospect. I fear what he will cost if he has a few healthy seasons.

 

[Dingo44]

Quinn is a legit prospect. I fear what he will cost if he has a few healthy seasons.

I welcome it.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Interesting take here ...

"12 goals and 18 assists is nothing to scoff at for a 24-year-old center who didn't get power-play time and who most commonly played with Warren Foegele and Corey Perry at five-on-five."

With the departure of Mitts and Skinner, some PP2 spots are in play. McLeod should have a shot at one, and then we might see a 40 point player.

Otoh, I wonder how many of his 30 points were scored playing on Draisaitl's wing?

He was a staple on our 2nd PP unit. Our 1st unit is one of the best ever so often times the 2nd unit doesn't get much ice time because we are scoring or we are creating a ton of chances. McLeod basically had the McDavid role of gaining the zone with his speed on the PP. He's never really shown much on the PP though.

McLeod is a player that can keep up with pretty much any player in the league and get you some PK offense because of his speed. Overall he is a good player but his unwillingness to do what it takes to win by paying the price physically is ultimately why he was traded. McLeod and Foegele were the 2 forwards that I was fine moving on from and the team seems to have felt the same way. IMO he immediately improves your team and should be a good player for you. Hopefully when you guys get back into the playoffs he digs down deep and finally shows the grit that you need to be successful in the playoffs. Off the ice he has always come across as a really nice and likeable young man.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Could you guys fill me in on Savoie? I haven't been following the drafts nearly as closely as I did in the 2010's. I know that he's from a town close to Edmonton and that we drafted his brother but recently didn't qualify him. I also know that he is on the smaller side and supposedly pretty fast. Is he gritty at all? Strengths and weaknesses?

 

[Faceboner]

Exciting deal (to be offline for).

-We have an older, faster, bigger, more defensively sound roster now that should insulate and complement all our rising skill.

-Value is only a slight overpay. McLeod is an elite D/PK 3C with 0.5 PPG upside, size, and speed who is entering his prime, under team control, and from the region. That's a crucial piece we've been lacking forever.

-I don't buy that Adams necessarily devalued our similar prospects. Savoie still held very good value. It costs a significant piece like him to acquire young established, controlled guys at premium positions, especially in the current NHL trade climate.

-Happy we sent Savoie west, if we ever have to worry about him it's in the SCF. I expect him to thrive.

-I'd love to know how this negotiation went. Was Savoie Edmonton's target from the beginning? Feels likely with the Canadian factor. I wonder if Adams was trying to give them Ostlund at the draft and finally relented. Or did he protect Kulich (who could become a 50-goal scorer next to 97)?

-Glad to see the calls for Adams's head have mostly disappeared. Judging him so early in the summer (in some cases before it even started) was always absurd. Patience is indeed a virtue in matters we have no control over.

At first I was like wtf but told myself to give it a minute I did and now I like the trade not much better out there available for trade if there was they still aren't as good defensively feels like he could fit with a number of players in a different role whether it's a shutdown checking role or a disrupting forechecker driving possession and I think there is more upside for offense on this team

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

He was a staple on our 2nd PP unit. Our 1st unit is one of the best ever so often times the 2nd unit doesn't get much ice time because we are scoring or we are creating a ton of chances. McLeod basically has the McDavid role of gaining the zone with his speed on the PP. He's never really shown much on the PP though.

McLeod is a player that can keep up with pretty much any player in the league and get you some PK offense because of his speed. Overall he is a good player but his unwillingness to do what it takes to win by paying the price physically is ultimately why he was traded. McLeod and Foegele were the 2 forwards that I was fine moving on from and the team seems to have felt the same way. IMO he immediately improves your team and should be a good player for you. Hopefully when you guys get back into the playoffs he digs down deep and finally shows the grit that you need to be successful in the playoffs. Off the ice he has always come across as a really nice and likeable young man.

As a small guy, I find it somewhat infuriating when a big player doesn't utilize his size.

I'm not talking about thunderous body checks, just using your size to angle guys off the puck, put yourself between the opponent and the puck in board battles, go hard to the net no matter who's there, etc.

Hopefully Lindy can light a fire under his ass in that regard. At 24, that might be a tough ask.

I welcome it.

We'll know the Sabres have arrived when complaining about our cap woes is a common refrain here.

 

[Faceboner]

He was a staple on our 2nd PP unit. Our 1st unit is one of the best ever so often times the 2nd unit doesn't get much ice time because we are scoring or we are creating a ton of chances. McLeod basically had the McDavid role of gaining the zone with his speed on the PP. He's never really shown much on the PP though.

McLeod is a player that can keep up with pretty much any player in the league and get you some PK offense because of his speed. Overall he is a good player but his unwillingness to do what it takes to win by paying the price physically is ultimately why he was traded. McLeod and Foegele were the 2 forwards that I was fine moving on from and the team seems to have felt the same way. IMO he immediately improves your team and should be a good player for you. Hopefully when you guys get back into the playoffs he digs down deep and finally shows the grit that you need to be successful in the playoffs. Off the ice he has always come across as a really nice and likeable young man.

I feel he will be more physical due to adams revamping the bottom 6 of all the physical guys are infectious and are able to influence the game chances are that will spread and rally the team as whole to play with a bit more bite

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Straight up guys it is hard to make deals when your team isn't doing very well. Most players have lesser value because of a lack of team success which often times leads to a lack of success as an individual as well. When we trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson and signed Milan Lucic I felt that it was the right deal at the time even though I felt like NJ should've added on that deal. Had Lucic remained a 25ish goal scorer we would've been in better shape. Then Larsson left and truth be told we could really use a guy like him to round out our D. McLeod is proven and Savoie as of this point is not. Not every prospect will pan out and part of me wonders if there are underlying reasons why this trade was made. The biggest positive IMO is that it was said that this trade discussion started at the draft and that apparently we were targeting Savoie. If that's the case then both teams got their guy and hopefully both players do well for their new teams.