Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie

[Chainshot]

Lindy’s not Jochen, but what the Hecht.

Ok stupid joke, but Lindy got his Jochen Hecht.

Though Hecht was only some second round picks, not a recent 9OA.

 

[Dreakon13]

We've acquired players that are good bottom 6ers without having to trade one of the top prospects......half the league is signing the same caliber players for free in FA regardless of his age his contract is up in two years even RFA he could just take a 1-2 year deal then run away afterwards.

I don't see what this has to do with what I said.

No one would disagree this is an overpayment... going into all the reasons, again, why this might not be such a bad thing, or why trades and FA signings might not always be in Buffalo's favor value-wise at any given time for any particular GM, would be redundant.

I was answering why we seem to overvalue prospects here. If this team was competing every year, a. trades like this probably would be less necessary and b. fans would be more focused on improving the team instead of coveting the only thing they've been able to kinda brag about here on HF.

 

[joshjull]

Savoie was injured in the last prospect tournament game.. He was never at training camp .. he never played any preseason games. He was never making the team last year because he wasn't ready. That was shown when he got his 1 NHL game and his AHL games.

I don't know how or why this narrative of making the team last year even got started.

I think it was a product of Adams not getting a vet to fill in for Quinn while he was injured. It left it open to in house options and many assumed it would be Savoie. Which wasn’t a crazy assumption since he was one of the few youngsters with a shot (prior to getting injured). I don’t think many thought it would be Benson.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Majority opinion here seems to be Savoie is in the top 2 out of Kulich/Rosen/Ostlund/Savoie/Helenius/Wahlberg

I really want to believe that, for whatever reasons, Savoie was in the bottom 2 of that list in the minds of the Sabres brass. If it's true that he was being offered in multiple trades.

He's in a similar tier as Kulich and Helenius. I'd personally have him #1. It hurt to trade him, but McLeod is going to look really nice on the third line, and he may have another level to his game. Now, if we include Benson and Levi who just graduated last year, he'd be in the 3-5 range of prospects.

 

[Jim Bob]

Here is why I am not freaking out on giving up Savoie in this trade:

Sabres forwards on their ELCs:

Quinn
Peterka
Benson
Kulich
Rosen
Helenius (soon)
Ostlund
Wahlberg
Neuchev
Kisakov
Kozak
Nadeau
Tullio

 

[Rowley Birkin]

We get: A 24 year-old, lightning fast, defense-first 3C. (6'3" 188 lb. Get this guy in the weight room, stuff him with protein powder, and maybe he'll have more moxie.)

We lose: One of our many undersized, offensively gifted forward prospects. And the disaster-in-the-making of Krebs at 3C on opening night.

I'm good.

McLeod is 200lb, though this is yet to be confirmed by Craig Rivet.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I don't mind targeting McLeod as the 3C I think he'll play a role here and do some nice things but that value was absolutely horrendous for Buffalo. People arguing where Savoie fits in relation to our other forward prospects or about his injuries are completely missing the mark. Adams absolutely kneecapped himself emphasizing drafting small wingers and dragging his feet on making deals to improve this team. This is the end result. Pretty disappointing even if the team will be better this year.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

McLeod > Mitts (in terms of our needs/fit)
Byram > Savoie (this isn't really debatable)

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion you came to...

I could go through the comparisons between Mitts vs McLeod and then point out how Byram doesn't fit in terms of our needs, but you have your opinion that won't change and you obviously know mine. There's no point. I wouldn't go around asking this board for a poll on your 1st comparison though, considering the need for another top-six FW and the lackluster add of Zucker.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I think it was a steep price but likely the price of doing business. If Adams has been talking to Edmonton since the draft I’d imagine he probably offered Buffalo’s 2024 1st for McLeod. But he probably didn’t become available until they got Henrique re-signed at such a bargain.

I think Savoie was likely passed on the depth chart by other prospects in the Sabres eyes, which made him more expendable. Like it or not, I think Adams and co. are higher on other prospects they have. And remember, James Patrick has coached Savoie. I’m sure the Sabres have a very good idea of what he is and what he’s not.

Also, If Chad Dedemonics is to be believed, Savoie is the prospect Buffalo has been shopping all offseason. I could see that being the case. I really like Savoie but I just think his overall long term fit is more of a question than some of the other prospects.

I also don’t think Savoie had the value around the NHL as some here hoped. He’s a very small forward who more likely projects to be a middle 6 winger in the NHL (How many 5’8” first line centers are there in the NHL?) and has already had some injury issues. We know size is a priority for a lot of GMs. I could see Savoie’s value/interest being somewhat limited. Corey Pronman also seemed to confirm this.

As for McLeod, he fills a huge hole for Buffalo at 3C and he’s immediately the best face-off man on the roster. The Sabres are definitely a better team after this trade. It’s funny how much better I feel about the overall roster with McLeod on it. It makes me feel like Lindy has a chance to succeed now. He has some of the “tools” he talked about needing. Both bottom 6 lines have a real purpose and he will be able to use them in a multitude of ways. I no longer feel like Ruff is being set up to fail.

I still think they need a top 6 forward (I don’t like relying on young guys stepping up + everyone else rebounding) and I wouldn’t mind them adding a good veteran defenseman (unlikely…), but otherwise I actually like the roster and the moves Adams has made.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

My only concern about this trade, is will McLeod add some physicality to his game or is it too late? I really don't care much about all his good qualities if he shies away from contact during the playoffs. I mean...that just can't be a thing. That's Sabres poster child stuff for the last decade (aside from being in the playoffs).

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I could go through the comparisons between Mitts vs McLeod and then point out how Byram doesn't fit in terms of our needs, but you have your opinion that won't change and you obviously know mine. There's no point. I wouldn't go around asking this board for a poll on your 1st comparison though, considering the need for another top-six FW and the lackluster add of Zucker.

Mitts > McLeod in a vacuum, no argument. But they have very different skill sets, very different contract situations & it's clear that McLeod is a better fit within the big picture Adams wants to build. He even said as much.

Zucker is simply a placeholder before a guy like Kulich or Rosen are ready to make the jump full time. There's not many viable options out there for one season rentals. So while Zucker is an underwhelming addition... he does make sense. He brings the veteran leadership too, which i don't see too many people mention but there's a definite void there after Okposo leaving.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Mitts > McLeod in a vacuum, no argument. But they have very different skill sets, very different contract situations & it's clear that McLeod is a better fit within the big picture Adams wants to build. He even said as much.

Zucker is simply a placeholder before a guy like Kulich or Rosen are ready to make the jump full time. There's not many viable options out there for one season rentals. So while Zucker is an underwhelming addition... he does make sense. He brings the veteran leadership too, which i don't see too many people mention but there's a definite void there after Okposo leaving.

He absolutely never said that McLeod is a better fit than Mitts. You're just summarizing it that way.

I know what Zucker is, which is why most of us prefer a better add, which wouldn't be necessary with Mitts on the roster.

There's a reason why Mitts is going to get paid a lot more than McLeod. "Fit" is just a convenient term to waive it away for you.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Isn't the whole point of Moneyball that Beane wasn't just identifying those guys, but identifying them consistently at very low value? The Hatteberg story wouldn't have hit quite as hard if Beane had shipped off a top 10 pick to bring him in right? Idk.

Yes but when Oakland and Beane were doing that, the rest of the baseball world was sleeping on analytics. Hockey teams have analytics departments. Edmonton knew what they were giving up.

If Savoie goes Brayden Point in Edmonton…

Thats my fear. His progression is very similar to Point’s.

I remain fine with the deal. Matt was my favorite prospect. Oh well.

Same.

In his draft plus 2 year? As a top ten pick? If he wasn’t there would be a big problem. Also if the younger Benson wasn’t too good for the league…he’d have beaten him like he has every year.

We’re talking about a guy who isn’t making the league until what…draft plus 4? That’s not the special player people want to pretend he is. Some are acting like we traded Bedard or Celebrini away today. We didn’t. We traded away one of a bucket of guys around the same place. They wouldn’t move Kulich in this deal. Or Helenius. Or Benson…who of course we still can’t count because unlike Savoie made the league year one and is no longer a prospect so we pretend he doesn’t factor into Savoie discussion. Which is hilarious.

If Savoie was as special as people are making it out…he wouldn’t have been traded. He’d have been in the league

Overall agree, but if Savoie hits his upside, which is Point, it’ll sting.

I just feel like people are missing some things about where Savoie really ranked. He wasn’t the best player on his own team the year after he was drafted. Benson was. He wasn’t the best player on his own team after he was traded to Moose Jaw. Firkus was. Maybe he was the best player on his own team for 11 games in Wenatchee. Maybe it was Geekie. He went to WJC and was blown out of that tournament by both Ostlund (who was the best player in that tournament and was robbed of MVP) and Kulich.

He was drafted higher than any of the other forward prospects (and Benson). That isn’t an argument that he’s better. It ceases to matter immediately after it happens.

If I was Edmonton I’d be ecstatic because he is immediately my top prospect and is an exciting player with big upside. I’m a Sabres fan and I totally get why he was moved and not Kulich. Or Helenius. Or Benson. Or Ostlund. Or even Wahlberg.

Savoie is who I wanted when we were on the clock at 9 and I think he’s going to be a really good player. But a lot has happened since then. I got a better small winger the next draft. I got two legit center prospects…one later that night and one this year. I got a better goal scorer later that night.

I wish him luck and am happy he’s going home. But he wasn’t this can’t miss special player that he’s being discussed as. He was a really good prospect among a bunch of them.

Good post.

 

[toddkaz]

I read a lot he is soft like butter. Couldn't Adams do better?

 

[Jim Bob]

I read a lot he is soft like butter. Couldn't Adams do better?

The list of 3Cs that were available in trade, did not have trade protection, and was this age and speed profile wasn't going to be long.

McLeod isn't perfect. But, his speed, defensive ability, and being around 50% on faceoffs make this team better.

 

[suddeninterest]

Oilers fan here, this is a good hockey trade. You guys get a fast, responsible, cost controlled 3C/W who will greatly help your bottom 6 and pk. We get a player who should be able to contribute more offensively over the next 3 seasons on an elc which is exactly what we need during our window. Us re-signing Henrique and having Holloway made MacLeod expendable and you having Benson + drafting Helenius made Savoie expendable. Makes sense for both sides.

 

[old kummelweck]

My only concern about this trade, is will McLeod add some physicality to his game or is it too late? I really don't care much about all his good qualities if he shies away from contact during the playoffs. I mean...that just can't be a thing. That's Sabres poster child stuff for the last decade (aside from being in the playoffs).

The fan opinion and recon on this guy do not match the analytics. It is very difficult to get a cogent assessment from fans and talking heads that actually match the numbers.

I am guessing the Sabres pro scouts and the analytics department are aligned on his upside as a 3C that can play higher in the lineup if called upon. He's a utility player, and as such, he has limitations. How physical does he need to be? I think they need him first on the puck in that role - then you have players like Zucker/Benson/Krebs/Greenway that can work the boards on that line.

Every bottom six player doesn't need to play physical. You don't want them shying away from contact, or fearful to go to the middle of the ice. We have that same criticism of the Sabres forwards as being perimeter. But my counter to that is that Granato's system was not designed for zone play - it was a wind up O and one-and-done in the zone. All offensive schemes that center around zone play start on the perimeter and work the puck to the front. I don't really see Edmonton playing that system - because they have these players that can basically win the center of the ice with pure skill.

Wait and see for me on how this guy fits into Lindy's system.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

He absolutely never said that McLeod is a better fit than Mitts. You're just summarizing it that way.

I know what Zucker is, which is why most of us prefer a better add, which wouldn't be necessary with Mitts on the roster.

There's a reason why Mitts is going to get paid a lot more than McLeod. "Fit" is just a convenient term to waive it away for you.

In the post Mitts/Byram trade presser Adams talked about wanting to add a specific type of player. After seeing what he's added this offseason, it should be clear to everyone that he had a plan & acted upon it very well. The players he added are pretty much the polar opposite of Mitts.

Seems to me that you simply need to get over the fact that Mitts is not on this team any more. He wasn't in Adams long term plans & I'm fine with that. He's a nice player but he's not some invaluable cornerstone piece to build a team around.

 

[CrazyWayne]

In the post Mitts/Byram trade presser Adams talked about wanting to add a specific type of player. After seeing what he's added this offseason, it should be clear to everyone that he had a plan & acted upon it very well. The players he added are pretty much the polar opposite of Mitts.

Seems to me that you simply need to get over the fact that Mitts is not on this team any more. He wasn't in Adams long term plans & I'm fine with that. He's a nice player but he's not some invaluable cornerstone piece to build a team around.

Interesting point on the Byram trade, it was a trade that seemed to go away from how the team was being built with granato as head coach. It's very much in line with the signings and trades this off season

Gets me to thinking when did Adams start consulting with ruff, his teams in new jersey and Dallas were all fast in your face with speed teams

 

[gallagt01]

Re: Savoie's trade value

If both are true that Adams was shopping Savoie AND he was fishing for a big piece in the top six, this trade makes it pretty clear that Savoie just isn't valued leaguewide the way he is on HF.

 

[Sabresbyswords104]

Like the player, hate the price it took, like that Kevyn still went for it

But could we got mcleod for way less thats the question. According to oils fan they Didnt think highly of him .

 

[Chainshot]

Re: Savoie's trade value

If both are true that Adams was shopping Savoie AND he was fishing for a big piece in the top six, this trade makes it pretty clear that Savoie just isn't valued leaguewide the way he is on HF.

Same with Rosen. I don’t view this as an endorsement of his value either

 

[Jim Bob]

But could we got mcleod for way less thats the question. According to oils fan they Didnt think highly of him .

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809327246039265762

This wasn't a knee jerk trade by Adams. And it is unlikely that the price was going down if Adams waited. Especially if being an Edmonton kid was part of why the Oilers wanted Savoie in the trade.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

In the post Mitts/Byram trade presser Adams talked about wanting to add a specific type of player. After seeing what he's added this offseason, it should be clear to everyone that he had a plan & acted upon it very well. The players he added are pretty much the polar opposite of Mitts.

Seems to me that you simply need to get over the fact that Mitts is not on this team any more. He wasn't in Adams long term plans & I'm fine with that. He's a nice player but he's not some invaluable cornerstone piece to build a team around.

Oh brother. KA's "plans" have been disjointed and differed based on various factors like who the HC was/is, prospect development, team results/fan revolt, and many trade talks that broke down over the last couple years. I wouldn't say he decided on any specific plan until the season ended like trash and Ruff came aboard. Either way, you're trying to say that Mitts wasn't a good fit, while I can say the same thing about Byram (redundant, not what they lacked) and McLeod (perimeter player, avoids contact). There's pro/cons to each player about "fit" so it's just taking one side of the gray or the other to make your argument.

I'm not making your argument though. I'm saying the team would be better off, regardless of whatever KA's plans were, if he didn't make the Byram/Mitts trade, because no matter how you slice it Mitts is a better player and more valuable on the ice than McLeod. My original post wasn't even trying to make that one comparison though, because I'm not trying to dump on the McLeod trade. It had to happen despite the poor value because Krebs isn't the guy to fill the rather large void that trading Mitts left. I would even say that Mitts would be a top-six C here and Cozens would drop if they kept a strict top 6/bottom 6 set-up. Or Thompson would drop if they went with a top 9 set-up. There's a ton of flexibility with Mitts still here.

I can get over Mittelstadt not being on the team. I get it though, you seem to want to pick a fight and make cute comments like I lost a puppy. The issue is a lot less about liking Mitts and a lot more about KA continuing a trend of GMs that make stupid decisions and leave the Sabres in perpetual mediocrity. At least in the last week he finally broke down and made some moves to make up for some holes he left in the roster. It's certainly been a long time coming.

 

[BloFan4Life]

So I watched every OHL and AHL vid there is of McLeod out there, and I see a lot more skill than I think he was allowed to show in Edmonton. He has a very nice shot, fast as heck, and has nice hands for his size. I know this may be nuts, but I don't think I would play him at 3c. I'm putting him with Tage and Tuch. Hear me out:

Tage sucks in the dot. Not only does he only win 43%, but he is constantly getting kicked out and then Tuch is forced to go in as tribute. McLeod is one of the best face off men in the league, getting those extra possession would be huge for guys like Tuch and Thompson who control the play when they get possession.

Tuch and Thompson can both play fast. Very few guys can keep up with them, wont be an issue with McLeod.

McLeod won't be forced to be physical playing with two guys who are also very big. Just the size of all three would be hard on an opponent without needing to throw the body. I think of it when Greenway played with Thompson for a little. McLeod is much more skilled than Greenway though.

Having two very responsible defensive wingers in Tuch and McLeod would allow Thompson to cheat a bit giving him more opportunity to break away, which he is good at.

Obviously creates a hole at 3c, but I'm a huge Ostlund believer. It won't surprise me if Noah has a great camp.