Speculation: Russo on the status of Kaprizov’s contract negotiations

[Nsjohnson]

KK can sign a 5 year contract and demand a trade year 3 or 4 if he really wants to, and MGMT will have to agree eventually for their own sake.

 

[Ban Hammered]

I don’t understand what you think Kaprizov did wrong.

The only thing he did "wrong" was screwing himself on his RFA status by the choices he made.
The point is the Wild have actually been giving him everything he has wanted up to this point...so he is not in any way being screwed over.

 

[Bazeek]

I have no idea who you are trying to reply to but your words don’t match my post.

You aren't using "good faith" according to either the generally accepted colloquial or legal meanings. You're doing what many here have and implying that "good faith" means "playing nice" or "being friendly," which has virtually nothing to do with its actual meaning in either context. The goal seems to be to cast the team's actions as singularly nefarious or coercive, when it's really just another RFA negotiation that's dragged out longer than expected.

 

[JoemAvs]

The way the RFA rules are written do give players more options as they play more games in the NHL and get closer to UFA status. Those rules are why Jesperi Kotkaniemi just signed a 1 year, $6.1m contract with Carolina instead of being "forced" and "bullied" by Montreal. You're disregarding the reasons for Kaprizov not having similar options right now, despite being an older and arguably more established player.

Kaprizov's feelings about the team, the location, the GM, the fans, and whatever else aren't actually material to the conversation, especially since none of us actually know what they are. If his priority really is to get out of St Paul as quickly as possible he absolutely has an option available to do that: offer to sign for 3 years at a low AAV.

And as long as a 1-3 year deal for a low AAV(but somewhat close to market value of RFA years aka not less than 4-6m depending on the comparisons you want to make) is on offer, KK has no right to complain.

The problem here is that from what I gather that is not something Guerin is willing to offer. He wants term. He said it himself when he promised that KK would be signed for longer than Fiala. Considering that a 2-3 year deal is probably worse for the Wild than a 1 year deal IMO, that means that Guerin wants UFA years to me. And that is my whole gripe here. You shouldn't be able to force people into signing away UFA years by telling them it is either you sign it or you don't get to play in the NHL. Thats bad faith to me and what I think is wrong. Because you are coercing KK into giving up his right to UFA that has been granted by the CBA via holding his NHL career hostage. How is that not bad faith?

If there is a 1 year deal for 5m on the table as a fallback and KK is too stubborn/greedy to accept it, then the whole mess is on him and I don't have any sympathy for him.
But if its only 4 years + or gtfo like it appears to be, Guerin is to blame and he should start to act more rationally.

 

[57special]

KK can sign a 5 year contract and demand a trade year 3 or 4 if he really wants to, and MGMT will have to agree eventually for their own sake.

I don't think that his wish is to leave MN so much as to sign the shortest possible contract that allows him to go UFA. This is all about maxing out $$, for him. Having the freedom to move to other destinations ASAP is a secondary consideration.

I really think that it's best if Guerin starts reaching out to FLA, NY, and CA teams to see what they would pay for KK in trade. Maybe DC, and CAR, too. Don't think that Boston would put up with his crap.

 

[Bazeek]

And as long as a 1-3 year deal for a low (but somewhat close to market value of RFA years aka not less than 4-6m depending on the comparisons you want to make) is on offer, KK has no right to complain.

The problem here is that from what I gather that is not something Guerin is willing to offer. He wants term. He said it himself when he promised that KK would be signed for longer than Fiala. Considering that a 2-3 year deal is probably worse for the Wild than a 1 year deal IMO, that means that Guerin wants UFA years to me. And that is my whole gripe here. You shouldn't be able to force people into signing away UFA years by telling them it is either you sign it or you don't get to play in the NHL. Thats bad faith to me and what I think is wrong. Because you are coercing KK to sign away his right to UFA that has been granted by the CBA via holding his NHL career hostage. How is that not bad faith?

If there is a 1 year deal for 5m on the table as a fallback and KK is too stubborn/greedy to accept it, then the whole mess is on him and I don't have any sympathy for him.
But if its only 4 years + or gtfo like it appears to be, Guerin is to blame and he should start to act more rationally.

Guerin writing checks he can't cash has become an annoying trend, so no argument from me on that one.

But ultimately we don't know much about what has and hasn't been discussed. We know of a few formal offers from the team that have all been at 5+ years. We've heard virtually nothing from the player's side, which is interesting considering they haven't exactly been shy about floating stuff through the media. If the team is simply refusing to discuss lower term at lower AAV then I would agree that they're being obnoxious (and probably in denial), but I think it's more likely that the agent isn't actually interested in going there either. Maybe Theofanous is just weirdly scrupulous about not leaking info about NHL contracts in a way that he isn't about KHL contracts.

 

[Ban Hammered]

And as long as a 1-3 year deal for a low AAV(but somewhat close to market value of RFA years aka not less than 4-6m depending on the comparisons you want to make) is on offer, KK has no right to complain.

The problem here is that from what I gather that is not something Guerin is willing to offer. He wants term. He said it himself when he promised that KK would be signed for longer than Fiala. Considering that a 2-3 year deal is probably worse for the Wild than a 1 year deal IMO, that means that Guerin wants UFA years to me. And that is my whole gripe here. You shouldn't be able to force people into signing away UFA years by telling them it is either you sign it or you don't get to play in the NHL. Thats bad faith to me and what I think is wrong. Because you are coercing KK into giving up his right to UFA that has been granted by the CBA via holding his NHL career hostage. How is that not bad faith?

If there is a 1 year deal for 5m on the table as a fallback and KK is too stubborn/greedy to accept it, then the whole mess is on him and I don't have any sympathy for him.
But if its only 4 years + or gtfo like it appears to be, Guerin is to blame and he should start to act more rationally.

It's not bad faith because it is common practice to ask for some UFA years for more money...and the Wild have not backed off a 9 million AAV...which again would be the highest in history for someone at his position with so little game experience.
And again...he chose not to come for 5 years after he was drafted...he chose to burn the 1st year of his ELC which set up his current RFA status.
He has gotten everything he has wanted so far. It is not at all in bad faith for the Wild to ask for little bit of give from his side now.

 

[kp61c]

It's not bad faith because it is common practice to ask for some UFA years for more money...and the Wild have not backed off a 9 million AAV...which again would be the highest in history for someone at his position with so little game experience.
And again...he chose not to come for 5 years after he was drafted...he chose to burn the 1st year of his ELC which set up his current RFA status.
He has gotten everything he has wanted so far. It is not at all in bad faith for the Wild to ask for little bit of give from his side now.

That's all Kaprizov's side is asking for. A little tiny bit of give. Sadly, Guerin is not ready to compromise with the player. It's 5+ years or take a hike.

 

[JoemAvs]

It's not bad faith because it is common practice to ask for some UFA years for more money...and the Wild have not backed off a 9 million AAV...which again would be the highest in history for someone at his position with so little game experience.
And again...he chose not to come for 5 years after he was drafted...he chose to burn the 1st year of his ELC which set up his current RFA status.
He has gotten everything he has wanted so far. It is not at all in bad faith for the Wild to ask for little bit of give from his side now.

No its not common practice to force people to give up UFA years if they don't want to. Players often do it as a courtesy or to increase the AAV or value of the contract but its not something you can just expect to happen. Plenty of negotiations have turned sour and lead to a divorce in the short or longterm (the Avs have had quite a few of those as well unfortunately) over things like that.

I don't really care that the Wild seem to have offered him 9m+ on a longterm deal or that he didn't exactly embrace being a Wild so far. There are not many precedents to his situation and 9m longterm would probably a steal for the Wild anyways if he keeps up the level of play he has shown (not only in the NHL but also beforehand). He probably could earn far more by going short term here and then cashing in 3 years from now.

And no he hasn't gotten everything he wanted. He had to play for the Wild afterall and had no say in that matter. Which is fine because its the rules. So far he has seemed less than enthusiastic about it but the Wild own his rights till he is 27 and he has to live with that and play for them until then. But its also not on the Wild to force him to stay even longer if he really doesn't want to.

Guerin writing checks he can't cash has become an annoying trend, so no argument from me on that one.

But ultimately we don't know much about what has and hasn't been discussed. We know of a few formal offers from the team that have all been at 5+ years. We've heard virtually nothing from the player's side, which is interesting considering they haven't exactly been shy about floating stuff through the media. If the team is simply refusing to discuss lower term at lower AAV then I would agree that they're being obnoxious (and probably in denial), but I think it's more likely that the agent isn't actually interested in going there either. Maybe Theofanous is just weirdly scrupulous about not leaking info about NHL contracts in a way that he isn't about KHL contracts.

We can agree on this one I think. Yeah we don't know enough and maybe KK signs a 5 year deal tomorrow. But considering that he will miss time in camp now and that all the recent reports don't paint a very pretty picture, that would be surprising.
If Theofanus asks for 9m on a 3 year deal, I would tell him to pound sand as well. But clearly the intention of the Wild was to sign KK to a longterm deal and from the looks of it KK was not very receptive to the idea (which IMO is his right). The fact that this mess is dragging on means that atleast one of the parties is not behaving very rationally. Maybe even both sides.

I am not a fan of his agent but considering what Guerin said (no 1 year deal for KK) and that I only have seen reports about the Wild offering 5+ year deals without any mention of shorter term offers for now has me siding with KK here (who obviously does not behave the way you want your players to behave but its his right to do that at the end of the day) for now.
We will see how this turns out but the longer this drags on the worse it will get for everyone involved IMO.

 

[AKL]

That's all Kaprizov's side is asking for. A little tiny bit of give. Sadly, Guerin is not ready to compromise with the player. It's 5+ years or take a hike.

5 years is the give from 7-8, especially if the AAV is staying pretty much the same.

Time for Kaprizov to give a little.

 

[57special]

Guerin writing checks he can't cash has become an annoying trend, so no argument from me on that one.

But ultimately we don't know much about what has and hasn't been discussed. We know of a few formal offers from the team that have all been at 5+ years. We've heard virtually nothing from the player's side, which is interesting considering they haven't exactly been shy about floating stuff through the media. If the team is simply refusing to discuss lower term at lower AAV then I would agree that they're being obnoxious (and probably in denial), but I think it's more likely that the agent isn't actually interested in going there either. Maybe Theofanous is just weirdly scrupulous about not leaking info about NHL contracts in a way that he isn't about KHL contracts.

It's pretty clear that Kaprizov and Theofanous have agreed that the latter will have full control of the negotiations. I suspect that the agent doesn't want to leak details because it will show his client in a bad light, as it will appear that he is greedy, making him less appealing to a fanbase he will be playing in front of for the next 3 years at a minimum.

 

[Ban Hammered]

That's all Kaprizov's side is asking for. A little tiny bit of give. Sadly, Guerin is not ready to compromise with the player. It's 5+ years or take a hike.

Want some cheese with your whine?

 

[TS Quint]

I agreed but that doesn't fit the situation sir.

Even if we agree that’s what happened, the point is just because they declared what they are doing doesn’t mean it’s negotiating in good faith.

 

[Bazeek]

No its not common practice to force people to give up UFA years if they don't want to. Players often do it as a courtesy or to increase the AAV or value of the contract but its not something you can just expect to happen. Plenty of negotiations have turned sour and lead to a divorce in the short or longterm (the Avs have had quite a few of those as well unfortunately) over things like that.

I don't really care that the Wild seem to have offered him 9m+ on a longterm deal or that he didn't exactly embrace being a Wild so far. There are not many precedents to his situation and 9m longterm would probably a steal for the Wild anyways if he keeps up the level of play he has shown (not only in the NHL but also beforehand). He probably could earn far more by going short term here and then cashing in 3 years from now.

And no he hasn't gotten everything he wanted. He had to play for the Wild afterall and had no say in that matter. Which is fine because its the rules. So far he has seemed less than enthusiastic about it but the Wild own his rights till he is 27 and he has to live with that and play for them until then. But its also not on the Wild to force him to stay even longer if he really doesn't want to.




We can agree on this one I think. Yeah we don't know enough and maybe KK signs a 5 year deal tomorrow. But considering that he will miss time in camp now and all the recent reports don't paint a very pretty picture so that would be surprising.
If Theofanus asks for 9m on a 3 year deal, I would tell him to pound sand as well. But clearly the intention of the Wild was to sign KK to a longterm deal and from the looks of it KK was not very receptive to the idea (which IMO is his right). The fact that this mess is dragging on means that atleast one of the parties is not behaving very rationally. Maybe even both sides.

I am not a fan of his agent but considering what Guerin said (no 1 year deal for KK) and that I only have seen reports about the Wild offering 5+ year deals without any mention of shorter term offers for now has me siding with KK here (who obviously does not behave the way you want your players to behave but its his right to do that at the end of the day) for now.
We will see how this turns out but the longer this drags on the worse it will get for everyone involved IMO.

I don't think ruling out a 1 year deal is a big deal for either side, really. If they sign Kaprizov for less than 4 years it's a de facto admission that they'll trade him before the contract is up, whether that's now or in 2024. In my mind, any discussion of shorter term deals is done with an eye toward maximizing trade value, which is probably 3 years at a relatively low AAV. That gives Kaprizov a route straight to UFA, while the Wild have a premium trade asset to sell.

The reason we haven't heard mum about that option is because a.) the team probably isn't ready to seriously look at trading him, partly because Guerin has erroneously made medium-to-long term plans around the assumption that Kaprizov will be in the mix, and b.) the player/agent don't actually want to sacrifice much AAV on shorter term deals, and being "liberated" from Minnesota isn't actually the priority that many here are making it out to be.

 

[TS Quint]

The only thing he did "wrong" was screwing himself on his RFA status by the choices he made.
The point is the Wild have actually been giving him everything he has wanted up to this point...so he is not in any way being screwed over.

I agree. Because he only played 55 games definitely leaves the door open for Guerin to low ball a short term contract to help push Kaprizov towards a longer contract. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[TS Quint]

You aren't using "good faith" according to either the generally accepted colloquial or legal meanings. You're doing what many here have and implying that "good faith" means "playing nice" or "being friendly," which has virtually nothing to do with its actual meaning in either context. The goal seems to be to cast the team's actions as singularly nefarious or coercive, when it's really just another RFA negotiation that's dragged out longer than expected.

I’m using good faith properly. It’s just confusing to Wild fans who want to say anything to have him signed longer…. Not that it matters.

 

[Bazeek]

It's pretty clear that Kaprizov and Theofanous have agreed that the latter will have full control of the negotiations. I suspect that the agent doesn't want to leak details because it will show his client in a bad light, as it will appear that he is greedy, making him less appealing to a fanbase he will be playing in front of for the next 3 years at a minimum.

I'd say it's pretty sensible to not go leaking negotiation details willy nilly. But if the agent is making overtures of (say) 3 years at $6m and the team is just refusing to engage, I wouldn't exactly hold it against them for slipping that info to Kevin Weekes (or whoever). I don't think there's any indication that that's actually happening there, but I'll admit the possibility.

 

[Bazeek]

I’m using good faith properly. It’s just confusing to Wild fans who want to say anything to have him signed longer…. Not that it matters.

Tell me what you think "good faith" means.

 

[Hodge]

The only thing he did "wrong" was screwing himself on his RFA status by the choices he made.
The point is the Wild have actually been giving him everything he has wanted up to this point...so he is not in any way being screwed over.

The only thing Kaprizov wants is a 3-year deal which the Wild have not offered him (or else he would be signed by now).

 

[Digitalbooya]

Give him the Fiala special, 2 years $3M AAV.

 

[AKL]

The only thing Kaprizov wants is a 3-year deal which the Wild have not offered him (or else he would be signed by now).

up to this point

The Wild organization has stood by for 6 years letting him have his way. Up to this point, he has gotten everything he wants exactly as he wants it.

Now, the Wild are trying to get something they want, and Kaprizov so far seems unwilling to come to the table.

 

[kp61c]

5 years is the give from 7-8, especially if the AAV is staying pretty much the same.

Time for Kaprizov to give a little.

Both 5 years and 8 years were equally unacceptable from the very beginning and are highly favorable to the team. There is no giving here at all.

 

[AKL]

Both 5 years and 8 years were equally unacceptable from the very beginning and are highly favorable to the team. There is no giving here at all.

So again, you're not a neutral party here, your opinion is that the only acceptable terms are giving Kaprizov exactly what he wants. The team needs to give 100%, while Kaprizov just needs to name his terms. That's your opinion, but that's not how this works.

 

[kp61c]

So again, you're not a neutral party here, your opinion is that the only acceptable terms are giving Kaprizov exactly what he wants. The team needs to give 100%, while Kaprizov just needs to name his terms. That's your opinion, but that's not how this works.

It is the other way around.

 

[AKL]

It is the other way around.

No, it's really not.