Speculation: Russo on the status of Kaprizov’s contract negotiations

[Bazeek]

In current business negotiations, to negotiate in good faith means to deal honestly and fairly with one another so that each party will receive the benefits of your negotiated contract.

I don’t doubt the Wild are negotiating in good faith.

But when posters are saying it’s FAIR if the Wild won’t go lower than a 5 year contract and if he don’t like it he can go home, that clearly isn’t fair considering it is kneecapping his UFA status and not allowing him to take advantage of his rights given in the CBA.

In what way do you think the Wild have been dishonest or unfair?

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of "good faith" as it applies to legal matters is that it means neither side is negotiating a contract/settlement/whatever with the intention of violating the spirit of the agreement: e.g. negotiating in a loophole that they intend to exploit. That's clearly not what's happening here.

Edit: nevermind, I jumped the gun in my reply and I think I see what you're saying. They're not preventing him from using his rights as outlined by the CBA though. Kaprizov himself shot himself in the foot there, not the team.

 

[JoemAvs]

I feel like this post also applies to yours:

I don't think thats a serious option here considering that it is below or around 1m which obviously is not going to happen considering that he could earn 5x that much in the KHL (which is not in the interest of anyone I would assume).

At the end of the day everybody loses here if KK is forced to go to the KHL if his only other options are either a longterm deal with the Wild or taking his QO.

He loses a ton of money and development time in the NHL, the Wild not only lose KK but also massively decrease his value in a trade and probably harm their reputation with players/agents around the league. It would be a lose-lose for everyone.

Thats why I assume that if this mythical 5 year deal Russo has talked about will not come to fruition, we will see a short term deal and KK in another jersey in the next 12 months.

 

[AKL]

I don't think thats a serious option here considering that it is below or around 1m which obviously is not going to happen considering that he could earn 5x that much in the KHL (which is not in the interest of anyone I would assume).

At the end of the day everybody loses here if KK is forced to go to the KHL if his only other options are either a longterm deal with the Wild or taking his QO.

He loses a ton of money and development time in the NHL, the Wild not only lose KK but also massively decrease his value in a trade and probably harm their reputation with players/agents around the league. It would be a lose-lose for everyone.

Thats why I assume that if this mythical 5 year deal Russo has talked about will not come to fruition, we will see a short term deal and KK in another jersey in the next 12 months.

Okay, let me clarify the important part that you completely ignored.

Beyond that, virtually every one of your complaints would be addressed if Kaprizov was able to sign offer sheets or file for arbitration. Arbitration in particular exists specifically for this sort of situation. Now ask yourself why he doesn't have arbitration rights and whether it's really on the team to fix that problem for the player.

 

[JoemAvs]

Okay, let me clarify the important part that you completely ignored.

Because it doesn't matter one iota IMO.
Yeah KK did not come over and now is a 10.2.c RFA because of it and has little leverage due to it.

But that doesn't mean the Wild just get to bully him into signing away UFA years. Just not how this works at all. They can bully him into signing for much cheaper than he wants to next year due to it IMO.

If they do what you seem to want them to do and continue to play hardball until he signs a longterm deal or in Russia just because he has no remedy like arbitration or an OS available, it won't end well for them IMO.

 

[AKL]

Because it doesn't matter one iota IMO.
Yeah KK did not come over and now is a 10.2.c RFA because of it and has little leverage due to it.

But that doesn't mean the Wild just get to bully him into signing away UFA years. Just not how this works at all. They can bully him into signing for much cheaper than he wants to next year due to it IMO.

If they do what you seem to want them to do and continue to play hardball until he signs a longterm deal or in Russia just because he has no remedy like arbitration or an OS available, it won't end well for them IMO.

When a player is drafted, their RFA years are designed for them to give more than the team, and get less than the team. Their UFA years are designed for the player to get more than the team, and give less than the team.

Kaprizov hasn't given anything throughout his RFA years, but you expect the Wild to give him his UFA years? Why? What has he done to earn that? He didn't hold up his end of the bargain, and you're okay with that, but when the Wild refuse to give, it's not fair?

The Wild don't have the obligation to do what's best for Kaprizov or what you think is fair to Kaprizov, just as Kaprizov doesn't have to do what's best for the Wild or what we think is fair to the Wild. What you're seeing right now is that coming to a head. This is what happens when a player makes certain decisions. There are consequences. The Wild are not responsible for amending those consequences for him. They have no obligation to give to him what he hasn't given to them.

The Wild are not doing anything to Kaprizov that he didn't do to them. A team gets 7 RFA years from a player when drafted. Kaprizov will have given, at most, 4 of those, which means he took 3 RFA years from the organization. The Wild are asking for 2 of them back. It's not "unfair".

 

[Bazeek]

Because it doesn't matter one iota IMO.
Yeah KK did not come over and now is a 10.2.c RFA because of it and has little leverage due to it.

But that doesn't mean the Wild just get to bully him into signing away UFA years. Just not how this works at all. They can bully him into signing for much cheaper than he wants to next year due to it IMO.

If they do what you seem to want them to do and continue to play hardball until he signs a longterm deal or in Russia just because he has no remedy like arbitration or an OS available, it won't end well for them IMO.

Actually it means doing so would be well within the rules of the CBA. Whether or not it's really in the team's interests to do so is another question, but there's no legal or moral imperative preventing them from doing so.

 

[57special]

Kaprizov isn't looking to get paid. He is looking to get overpaid. The guy has played 55 NHL, FFS. He is not a guy who ran away with a scoring title, or a C that is known for great two way play. He is a 24yo rookie LW who finished 22nd in scoring last year.

 

[JoemAvs]

Actually it means doing so would be well within the rules of the CBA. Whether or not it's really in the team's interests to do so is another question, but there's no legal or moral imperative preventing them from doing so.

I think that the term bad faith would apply here.I think the NHLPA would not be happy at all here if the Wild used his 10.2.c status to force him to sign away UFA years against his will. Especially if the only realistic options would be longterm deal or KHL.

And in all reality I don't think its feasible. Just look at what happened with Dubois last year or what is happening with Eichel right now. If the Wild play it that way, odds are KK (and especially his agent) isn't going to take it lying down. Even if he signs a longer term deal, he will demand a trade asap and not exactly be a happy presence in the lockerroom. On a longterm deal he doesn't even have any incentive to play ball with the Wild. I doubt anyone would want that as your franchise player. Thats just Eichel 2.0 but probably even worse.

 

[AKL]

I think that the term bad faith would apply here.I think the NHLPA would not be happy at all here if the Wild used his 10.2.c status to force him to sign away UFA years against his will. Especially if the only realistic options would be longterm deal or KHL.

And yet, neither the NHL or NHLPA has stepped in to tell Guerin he has to offer something at 3 or fewer years. If what you were saying is true, they would have.

 

[Mr Positive]

Do they? They are destined to suck for a long time and the Wild fans are susceptible to the idea it's time to tank and rebuild. Kaprizov who obviously is not happy about such prospects is a luxury they can easily do without.

They were a good team last season. The cap hammer wont come down hard until next season so it would be good to try for a winning season.

But yes I understand that getting the contract correct is the most important. That's not just for this year but 5 years from now.

I'm just saying that this season matters too.

 

[JoemAvs]

When a player is drafted, their RFA years are designed for them to give more than the team, and get less than the team. Their UFA years are designed for the player to get more than the team, and give less than the team.

Kaprizov hasn't given anything throughout his RFA years, but you expect the Wild to give him his UFA years? Why? What has he done to earn that? He didn't hold up his end of the bargain, and you're okay with that, but when the Wild refuse to give, it's not fair?

The Wild don't have the obligation to do what's best for Kaprizov or what you think is fair to Kaprizov, just as Kaprizov doesn't have to do what's best for the Wild or what we think is fair to the Wild. What you're seeing right now is that coming to a head. This is what happens when a player makes certain decisions. There are consequences. The Wild are not responsible for amending those consequences for him. They have no obligation to give to him what he hasn't given to them.

The Wild are not doing anything to Kaprizov that he didn't do to them. A team gets 7 RFA years from a player when drafted. Kaprizov will have given, at most, 4 of those, which means he took 3 RFA years from the organization. The Wild are asking for 2 of them back. It's not "unfair".

Yeah I disagree.
You drafted a russian kid in the 5th round. Everyone knows that these guys most of the time don't come over until they are ready and that you are not going to get 7 RFA years out of those players. Especially 5th rounders. The Wild knew that at the draft but took him anyways. So he certainly doesn't owe them extra years here.

KK doesn't have to earn his UFA years. Because they are his damn right under the CBA. The same way the Wild own his damn rights till he is either 27 or plays 7 years in the NHL.

Do you really think KK wouldn't have come over earlier if he would have been drafted by the Rangers, Panthers or Kings? Because I bet he would have. So he already sacrificed quite a bit of money most likely just because he got drafted by the Wild.

Under the CBA KK owes the Wild service for 7 years or until he is 27. Nothing more. Trying to force him into staying longer against his will is just not the way to go here.
Either he wants to be a Wild player or not. It looks like he made his decision in that regard which is his right. Keeping a guy like that against his will never turns out well.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I think that the term bad faith would apply here.I think the NHLPA would not be happy at all here if the Wild used his 10.2.c status to force him to sign away UFA years against his will. Especially if the only realistic options would be longterm deal or KHL.

And in all reality I don't think its feasible. Just look at what happened with Dubois last year or what is happening with Eichel right now. If the Wild play it that way, odds are KK (and especially his agent) isn't going to take it lying down. Even if he signs a longer term deal, he will demand a trade asap and not exactly be a happy presence in the lockerroom. On a longterm deal he doesn't even have any incentive to play ball with the Wild. I doubt anyone would want that as your franchise player. Thats just Eichel 2.0 but probably even worse.

Kaprizov has every ability to get to UFA at age 27. He just can't make as much money as he wants over the next 3 years.

No one is forcing him to give up his UFA years, the Wild are saying we will pay you 9 million now in order to get 2 of your UFA years.

Kaprizov(Theonous) can respond with a 1 - 3year deal that is much cheaper, but as reported by Russo they want upwards of 9 million for those 1-3 year deals.

Heck, Kaprizov can also take all negotiation out of it if he wanted to, and go back to the KHL this year and accept his Qualifying offer next year, and use Arbitration the year after.

No one is forcing Kaprizov to do anything against his will. But the Wild are only prepared to offer what he wants in terms of cash on longer term deals. Thats completely normal in the NHL.

 

[Bazeek]

I think that the term bad faith would apply here.I think the NHLPA would not be happy at all here if the Wild used his 10.2.c status to force him to sign away UFA years against his will. Especially if the only realistic options would be longterm deal or KHL.

And in all reality I don't think its feasible. Just look at what happened with Dubois last year or what is happening with Eichel right now. If the Wild play it that way, odds are KK (and especially his agent) isn't going to take it lying down. Even if he signs a longer term deal, he will demand a trade asap and not exactly be a happy presence in the lockerroom. On a longterm deal he doesn't even have any incentive to play ball with the Wild. I doubt anyone would want that as your franchise player. Thats just Eichel 2.0 but probably even worse.

Why is it that when Kaprizov's RFA status comes up it's only ever the team that has any agency? 10.2.c status is a weird state to be in for a player. Why is he in this situation? Was it because the Wild were whispering in his ear this whole time maneuvering him into this position? This is like getting 20 moves into a game of chess, realizing that you ****ed up on move 4 and asking the other player to give your queen back.

Really though, it's unlikely that this is nearly as contentious as it's being made out to be. If Kaprizov just straight up doesn't want to play in Minnesota it's trivially easy to just tell Guerin that. As much as Minnesota likely wants him in the fold, no team wants a disgruntled player in the locker room. The fact that they're still pursuing 5 years is a pretty good indicator that the player isn't actually as intent on leaving as some are assuming.

 

[JoemAvs]

Kaprizov has every ability to get to UFA at age 27. He just can't make as much money as he wants over the next 3 years.

No one is forcing him to give up his UFA years, the Wild are saying we will pay you 9 million now in order to get 2 of your UFA years.

Kaprizov(Theonous) can respond with a 1 - 3year deal that is much cheaper, but as reported by Russo they want upwards of 9 million for those 1-3 year deals.

Heck, Kaprizov can also take all negotiation out of it if he wanted to, and go back to the KHL this year and accept his Qualifying offer next year, and use Arbitration the year after.

No one is forcing Kaprizov to do anything against his will. But the Wild are only prepared to offer what he wants in terms of cash on longer term deals. Thats completely normal in the NHL.

And if that is the case than that is the moment I side with Guerin here. But so far all I have read is that the Wild and Guerin are not even entertaining a shortterm deal and every offer that was reported was 5 years + and that KKs camp was not very enthusiastic about the idea of a longterm deal.

1-3 years at around 5-7m is the obvious landing spot here with a trade shortly afterwards.

 

[rynryn]

Yeah I disagree.
You drafted a russian kid in the 5th round. Everyone knows that these guys most of the time don't come over until they are ready and that you are not going to get 7 RFA years out of those players. Especially 5th rounders. The Wild knew at the draft that they most likely wouldn't get 7 RFA years from KK but took him anyways.

KK doesn't have to earn his UFA years. Because they are his damn right under the CBA. The same way the Wild own his damn rights till he is either 27 or plays 7 years in the NHL.

Do you really think KK wouldn't have come over earlier if he would have been drafted by the Rangers, Panthers or Kings? Because I bet he would have. So he already sacrificed quite a bit of money most likely just because he got drafted by the Wild.

Under the CBA KK owes the Wild service for 7 years or until he is 27. Nothing more. Trying to force him into staying longer against his will is just not the way to go here.
Either he wants to be a Wild player or not. It looks like he made his decision in that regard which is his right. Keeping a guy like that against his will never turns out well.

he would have come over had the GM guaranteed him a starting NHL role. Any GM doing this would have been roundly panned. our leverage right now is "we CAN sit on you until you're 27 and good luck getting a contract at that age for 8 years and big money with almost no NHL experience. "
it's not going to end well for Kaprizov. it'll hurt him personally far, far more than the wild will be hurt by sitting on him and not trading him for what has to be seriously depressed value right now.

 

[Ban Hammered]

This whole idea he's being forced to do anything is laughable

 

[JoemAvs]

Why is it that when Kaprizov's RFA status comes up it's only ever the team that has any agency? 10.2.c status is a weird state to be in for a player. Why is he in this situation? Was it because the Wild were whispering in his ear this whole time maneuvering him into this position? This is like getting 20 moves into a game of chess, realizing that you ****ed up on move 4 and asking the other player to give your queen back.

Really though, it's unlikely that this is nearly as contentious as it's being made out to be. If Kaprizov just straight up doesn't want to play in Minnesota it's trivially easy to just tell Guerin that. As much as Minnesota likely wants him in the fold, no team wants a disgruntled player in the locker room. The fact that they're still pursuing 5 years is a pretty good indicator that the player isn't actually as intent on leaving as some are assuming.

IMO its because he didn't like the idea of playing for the Wild the moment he got drafted and this is only a continuation of that. But that is me speculating admittedly. But I remember when he signed his last contract in Russia. It was curious that he opted for that deal when at that time he was already considered a hot prospect and in the longrun would have earned more jumping to the NHL more quickly. Other players also have gotten out of contracts earlier if they really wanted to.

That ultimately backfired here a bit obviously. But its not like KK did anything egregious like Lindros did back then. He just stayed home and tried to get to UFA as quickly as he can.

But yeah. Maybe I am really wrong here and its only about money. But if that were the case, KK and his agents have made quite a few blunders over the last few years.

 

[AKL]

Yeah I disagree.
You drafted a russian kid in the 5th round. Everyone knows that these guys most of the time don't come over until they are ready and that you are not going to get 7 RFA years out of those players. Especially 5th rounders. The Wild knew that at the draft but took him anyways. So he certainly doesn't owe them extra years here.

KK doesn't have to earn his UFA years. Because they are his damn right under the CBA. The same way the Wild own his damn rights till he is either 27 or plays 7 years in the NHL.

Do you really think KK wouldn't have come over earlier if he would have been drafted by the Rangers, Panthers or Kings? Because I bet he would have. So he already sacrificed quite a bit of money most likely just because he got drafted by the Wild.

Under the CBA KK owes the Wild service for 7 years or until he is 27. Nothing more. Trying to force him into staying longer against his will is just not the way to go here.
Either he wants to be a Wild player or not. It looks like he made his decision in that regard which is his right. Keeping a guy like that against his will never turns out well.

And yet, no one has stepped in to say the Wild have to offer him 3 or fewer years. Why is that?

You can disagree all you want. The Wild have broken no rules here.

 

[Bazeek]

IMO its because he didn't like the idea of playing for the Wild the moment he got drafted and this is only a continuation of that. But that is me speculating admittedly. But I remember when he signed his last contract in Russia. It was curious that he opted for that deal when at that time he was already considered a hot prospect and in the longrun would have earned more jumping to the NHL more quickly.

That ultimately backfired here a bit obviously. But its not like KK did anything egregious like Lindros did back then. He just stayed home and tried to get to UFA as quickly as he can.

But yeah. Maybe I am really wrong here and its only about money. But if that were the case, KK and his agents have made quite a few blunders over the last few years.

If he didn't like the idea of playing in Minnesota but he still wanted to play in the NHL while maximizing both salary and autonomy, he did so in pretty much the worst possible way. So either he's foolish or it's not actually that big a deal and this is mostly grandstanding on the part of his agent.

 

[kp61c]

nonsense

Truth can be shocking, i understand.

 

[ThatGuy22]

And if that is the case than that is the moment I side with Guerin here. But so far all I have read is that the Wild and Guerin are not even entertaining a shortterm deal and every offer that was reported was 5 years + and that KKs camp was not very enthusiastic about the idea of a longterm deal.

1-3 years at around 5-7m is the obvious landing spot here with a trade shortly afterwards.

The reporting on the deal has been bad faith leaks from Theonous on fake KHL threat, and that they want the high money at short term.

Additionally, its been reporting that Theonous isn't making any counter offers. He's trying to get BG to negotiate against himself, which is a large reason for the stalemate.

That's all been reported.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Kaprizov isn't looking to get paid. He is looking to get overpaid. The guy has played 55 NHL, FFS. He is not a guy who ran away with a scoring title, or a C that is known for great two way play. He is a 24yo rookie LW who finished 22nd in scoring last year.

Agreed. Massive greed here at play. Right move here is a 2 year bridge at a fair AAV value. Wild appear to want a longer deal and it looks like Kaprizov wants his RFA years to be paid as UFA years. He's got 3 RFA years left right?

0.93 pts/game over 55 games and 0.43 pts/game over 7 playoff games. 0.78 pts/game in the KHL over 293 games. That's his sample size. He's making demands like he is this 1st OA pick and has put up 0.93 pts/game over 3 ELC years. Very greedy

Bet you he has a hard time holding the 0.93 pts/game in the future.

 

[TS Quint]

Actually Kaprizov did that to himself.

I agree, Kaprizov put himself into a position to make this a difficult negotiation.

 

[north21]

Not really. Its usually a trade-off between money and UFA years given up.

Making my point for me I see, I would imagine both sides are working on a trade off right now correct? It isn't like other RFA have done this very same thing many many times before. Why all the hostage situation talk when this is normal?

 

[TS Quint]

He had a QO option that he didn't sign that would have walked him right to arbitration next year.

K.

But that isn’t his only option. That’s just a silly comment.