Speculation: Russo on the status of Kaprizov’s contract negotiations

[Digitalbooya]

No, it's really not.

They aren't going to back down from their twisted opinion and they are clearly posting in bad faith.

 

[JoemAvs]

I don't think ruling out a 1 year deal is a big deal for either side, really. If they sign Kaprizov for less than 4 years it's a de facto admission that they'll trade him before the contract is up, whether that's now or in 2024. In my mind, any discussion of shorter term deals is done with an eye toward maximizing trade value, which is probably 3 years at a relatively low AAV. That gives Kaprizov a route straight to UFA, while the Wild have a premium trade asset to sell.

The reason we haven't heard mum about that option is because a.) the team probably isn't ready to seriously look at trading him, partly because Guerin has erroneously made medium-to-long term plans around the assumption that Kaprizov will be in the mix, and b.) the player/agent don't actually want to sacrifice much AAV on shorter term deals, and being "liberated" from Minnesota isn't actually the priority that many here are making it out to be.

I agree with the sentiment that both sides might not seem to be really ready to get serious or face reality (Guerin on KK not being here for the longhaul and KK that he can't have short term at big money) about the situation which is unfortunate. That certainly would explain the stalemate right now and all the noise we are hearing about it.

That said. I disagree on the 3 year deal but I might be wrong or overanalyzing it. I think a 1 year deal is considerably better for the Wild when it comes to maintaining the maximal trade value of KK. It gives his new team 2 RFA years to lower a potential AAV on a longer term deal with one of his preferred destinations (if he is game for that) and removes the immediate threat of him hitting UFA right after this contract. It atleast forces KK and his agent to the table with his new team early on one way or the other and probably makes a longterm big money deal for KK and his new team more likely (even though he might want to go full Panarin and simply cash in via UFA quickly).

 

[Ban Hammered]

The only thing Kaprizov wants is a 3-year deal which the Wild have not offered him (or else he would be signed by now).

Hence why I said...up to this point. Reading is fundamental...

 

[rynryn]

Signing Bonuses are subject to Escrow.

Signing Bonuses have been subject to Escrow since the Salary Cap was instituted in 2005.

It's a commonly repeated misunderstanding.

Maybe post what you read. But I doubt owners are leaving loopholes on the 50/50 revenue split.

Per the MOU, signing bonuses and player performance bonuses are not included when calculating escrow which is presently set at 20 percent of a player's salary before taxes for the upcoming season.

i believe y'all but i think i first heard it on Sirius, I think Russo mentioned it, and the only hit on the first page of results that says this is wrong is issued as a correction on a Ryan O'Reilly article from 2015. Should be easier to find without having to actually sift through the CBA.

 

[AKL]

I agree with the sentiment that both sides might not seem to be really ready to get serious or face reality (Guerin on KK not being here for the longhaul and KK that he can't have short term at big money) about the situation which is unfortunate. That certainly would explain the stalemate right now and all the noise we are hearing about it.

That said. I disagree but I might be wrong or overanalyzing it. I think a 1 year deal is considerably better for the Wild when it comes to maintaining the maximal trade value of KK. It gives his new team 2 RFA years to lower a potential AAV on a longer term deal with one of his preferred destinations (if he is game for that) and removes the immediate threat of him hitting UFA right after this contract. It atleast forces KK and his agent to the table with his new team early on one way or the other and probably makes a longterm big money deal for KK and his new team more likely (even though he might want to go full Panarin and simply cash in via UFA quickly).

You're describing a situation eerily similar to the one he's in now, and saying that he'll have more trade value with the prospect of this happening again looming over his head?
The only difference would be next summer he could just go the QO or arbitration route to get directly to UFA. How would he have MORE value when he's able to get exactly what he wants without even speaking to a GM?

 

[kp61c]

No, it's really not.

it is

 

[Hodge]

up to this point

The Wild organization has stood by for 6 years letting him have his way. Up to this point, he has gotten everything he wants exactly as he wants it.

Now, the Wild are trying to get something they want, and Kaprizov so far seems unwilling to come to the table.

Letting him have his way? What does that even mean? Kaprizov should be grateful that Craig Leipold didn't fly to Moscow put a bag over his head and force him to play for the Wild? Just because a team drafts a player doesn't mean they have total control over his career. He can't sign with another NHL team until he's 27 that's it. They didn't do him some big favor by "allowing" him to play in the KHL.

 

[Bazeek]

I agree with the sentiment that both sides don't seem to be really ready to get serious or face reality (Guerin on KK not being here for the longhaul and KK that he can't have short term at big money) about the situation which is unfortunate.

That said. I disagree but I might be wrong or overanalyzing it. I think a 1 year deal is considerably better for the Wild when it comes to maintaining the maximal trade value of KK. It gives his new team 2 RFA years to lower a potential AAV on a longer term deal with one of his preferred destinations (if he is game for that) and removes the immediate threat of him hitting UFA right after this contract. It atleast forces KK and his agent to the table with his new team early on one way or the other and probably makes a longterm big money deal for KK and his new team more likely (even though he might want to go full Panarin and simply cash in via UFA quickly).

The latter part is up for debate, really. I'd think the main suitors for Kaprizov would be teams looking to supplement an established core of players and compete right now, rather than attempting to build around Kaprizov long term. The latter would just be signing up for the same situation the Wild are currently in, but with less leverage. If that's the case, 3 years at a (relatively) cheap cap hit seems ideal to me.

Either way, it'd be driven by trade value.

 

[JoemAvs]

You're describing a situation eerily similar to the one he's in now, and saying that he'll have more trade value with the prospect of this happening again looming over his head?
The only difference would be next summer he could just go the QO or arbitration route to get directly to UFA. How would he have MORE value when he's able to get exactly what he wants without even speaking to a GM?

Because nobody (or nobody that makes sense) is able to fit in the longterm deal for KK for next year. Otherwise I would argue they should trade him right now. But I think its too late now for that kind of deal that lands him in a prefered destination on a team that has the capspace and motivation to pull off the trade right now.
If that would be possible, I would argue in favor of trading him now.

Also this is the last year Minnesota can make a run before the cap recapture penalty really hits. They clearly have made plans around KK for this season and their moves so far (like Goligoski on a 1 yr 5m deal) don't scream rebuild/retool to me.

@Bazeek :

I think a team like LA or maybe even Florida depending on how the capmath shakes out next year with them (and on whether Huberdeau is in their longterm plans) would be very appealing to KK and could give him exactly what he wants while potentially also fulfilling his financial desires (especially LA longterm has a lot of cap available and more than enough assets to make it worth it for the Wild). I think the Kings would very much prefer KK on a 1 year deal here. But yeah. I guess it depends on the teams involved and the circumstances.

 

[AKL]

it is

Just to recap:

How this should happen: both side give a little to get something that works for both

How this is happening: the Wild have given on term while offering the same AAV, Kaprizov has given nothing (except lies about a competing offer from Russia, we'll call this one "bad faith")

How you think this should happen: Kaprizov should tell the Wild the contract he wants, the Wild should graciously accept, even if it doesn't work for them

How you think this is happening: Kaprizov has been desperately trying to make it work, telling the Wild several contracts he wants that are all 100% entirely reasonable and definitely work for the Wild, the big bad Wild haven't made a single offer below five years and they're probably only offering him like 6.5M for those five years

 

[north21]

ABecause you are coercing KK into giving up his right to UFA that has been granted by the CBA via holding his NHL career hostage. How is that not bad faith?

Doens't every RFA in the league, in maybe several leagues kind of have to deal with this? Why is it suddenly wrong in this situation for this player? Worse when we don't really know what is being discussed and the only thing I have seen was that both sides were close on a 5 by 9 deal.

 

[kp61c]

Just to recap:

How this should happen: both side give a little to get something that works for both

How this is happening: the Wild have given on term while offering the same AAV, Kaprizov has given nothing (except lies about a competing offer from Russia, we'll call this one "bad faith")

How you think this should happen: Kaprizov should tell the Wild the contract he wants, the Wild should graciously accept, even if it doesn't work for them

How you think this is happening: Kaprizov has been desperately trying to make it work, telling the Wild several contracts he wants that are all 100% entirely reasonable and definitely work for the Wild, the big bad Wild haven't made a single offer below five years and they're probably only offering him like 6.5M for those five years

i would like to hear from our beloved source Russo what short-term offers (1-3 years) are on the table. All i heard so far is 5+ years or take a hike.

 

[AKL]

Letting him have his way? What does that even mean? Kaprizov should be grateful that Craig Leipold didn't fly to Moscow put a bag over his head and force him to play for the Wild? Just because a team drafts a player doesn't mean they have total control over his career. He can't sign with another NHL team until he's 27 that's it. They didn't do him some big favor by "allowing" him to play in the KHL.

Sure, and this situation he's in is the consequence of his own actions he made when he had all the leverage. Now the Wild have the leverage, and people like you think they should relinquish it because it's not fair to Kaprizov that he, for the first time ever in his career, doesn't hold all the leverage.

He didn't want to play in the NHL all those years, and the Wild could do nothing about it but watch and hope he changed his mind. Now, if he wants to continue playing in the NHL for the next few years, he's going to have to actually come to the table and work with the Wild. The days of him getting his way just because he wants it are over.

 

[JoemAvs]

Doens't every RFA in the league, in maybe several leagues kind of have to deal with this? Why is it suddenly wrong in this situation for this player? Worse when we don't really know what is being discussed and the only thing I have seen was that both sides were close on a 5 by 9 deal.

?

Not really. Its usually a trade-off between money and UFA years given up. But if players don't want to stay longterm, you are usually not able to force them into signing longterm contracts by basically holding their career hostage/telling them to sign longterm or not at all.

Those situations usually end with shorter term deals and a rather quick divorce afterwards.

 

[Bazeek]

i would like to hear from our beloved source Russo what short-term offers (1-3 years) are on the table. All i heard so far is 5+ years or take a hike.

He's got a 1 year deal in the form of a qualifying offer. If they have something else in mind it's not against the rules for the agent to start making suggestions.

Beyond that, virtually every one of your complaints would be addressed if Kaprizov was able to sign offer sheets or file for arbitration. Arbitration in particular exists specifically for this sort of situation. Now ask yourself why he doesn't have arbitration rights and whether it's really on the team to fix that problem for the player.

 

[Digitalbooya]

He's got a 1 year deal in the form of a qualifying offer. If they have something else in mind it's not against the rules for the agent to start making suggestions.

Beyond that, virtually every one of your complaints would be addressed if Kaprizov was able to sign offer sheets or file for arbitration. Arbitration in particular exists specifically for this sort of situation. Now ask yourself why he doesn't have arbitration rights and whether it's really on the team to fix that problem for the player.

Woah woah woah, that would mean acknowledging that Kaprizov put himself in this situation. Can't do that.

 

[rynryn]

literally the only deception so far that's been reported is Kaprizov's side claiming they had a fat contract ready to sign in the KHL (I personally do not begrudge him this--it's no different from trying to BS a car dealer saying some guy across town is ready to sell for less). They were attempting to negotiate from a false base. The wild have only ever approached this from one angle. A "bad faith" negotiation would have been them telling him they had a trade in place for a high profile first line center when they didn't. something like that. being mean isn't bad faith.

 

[AKL]

?

Not really. Its usually a trade-off between money and UFA years given up. But if players don't want to stay longterm, you are usually not able to force them into signing longterm contracts by basically holding their career hostage/telling them to sign longterm or not at all.

Those situations usually end with shorter term deals and a rather quick divorce afterwards.

I feel like this post also applies to yours:

He's got a 1 year deal in the form of a qualifying offer. If they have something else in mind it's not against the rules for the agent to start making suggestions.

Beyond that, virtually every one of your complaints would be addressed if Kaprizov was able to sign offer sheets or file for arbitration. Arbitration in particular exists specifically for this sort of situation. Now ask yourself why he doesn't have arbitration rights and whether it's really on the team to fix that problem for the player.

 

[TS Quint]

Per the MOU, signing bonuses and player performance bonuses are not included when calculating escrow which is presently set at 20 percent of a player's salary before taxes for the upcoming season.

i believe y'all but i think i first heard it on Sirius, I think Russo mentioned it, and the only hit on the first page of results that says this is wrong is issued as a correction on a Ryan O'Reilly article from 2015. Should be easier to find without having to actually sift through the CBA.

You sound right. I took it a step too far. Because a bonus isn’t part of escrow doesn’t mean that player doesn’t circumvent the 50/50 revenue split. It just means they have to set their own money aside for any money that needs to be paid back.

 

[TS Quint]

Tell me what you think "good faith" means.

In current business negotiations, to negotiate in good faith means to deal honestly and fairly with one another so that each party will receive the benefits of your negotiated contract.

I don’t doubt the Wild are negotiating in good faith.

But when posters are saying it’s FAIR if the Wild won’t go lower than a 5 year contract and if he don’t like it he can go home, that clearly isn’t fair considering it is kneecapping his UFA status and not allowing him to take advantage of his rights given in the CBA.

 

[Sota Popinski]

Apparently it's futile to point out that words/idioms actually have established meanings, because people will just insist that their interpretation is correct regardless. So sure, the Wild is negotiating in bad faith. They're also raining cats-and-dogs on thin ice, but are about ready to hit the sack. Weeeee.

The Wild offering Kaprizov more money than any player with his amount of experience = bad faith
Kaprizov demanding to be paid Panarin's UFA contract = good faith

 

[AKL]

But when posters are saying it’s FAIR if the Wild won’t go lower than a 5 year contract and if he don’t like it he can go home, that clearly isn’t fair considering it is kneecapping his UFA status and not allowing him to take advantage of his rights given in the CBA.

Actually Kaprizov did that to himself.

 

[57special]

Both 5 years and 8 years were equally unacceptable from the very beginning and are highly favorable to the team. There is no giving here at all.

nonsense

 

[Digitalbooya]

In current business negotiations, to negotiate in good faith means to deal honestly and fairly with one another so that each party will receive the benefits of your negotiated contract.

I don’t doubt the Wild are negotiating in good faith.

But when posters are saying it’s FAIR if the Wild won’t go lower than a 5 year contract and if he don’t like it he can go home, that clearly isn’t fair considering it is kneecapping his UFA status and not allowing him to take advantage of his rights given in the CBA.

He had a QO option that he didn't sign that would have walked him right to arbitration next year.

 

[Chrisinroch]

Do they? They are destined to suck for a long time and the Wild fans are susceptible to the idea it's time to tank and rebuild. Kaprizov who obviously is not happy about such prospects is a luxury they can easily do without.

You claim to have your finger on the pulse of the fan base from… CHECKS NOTES… Moscow.

D’okay.