Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Bendium]

Ekholm is the right kind of player imo as well, but the age makes him a bad fit to give up a ton of capital that can be used elsewhere to bring in a better aged fitting solution, imo.

Ignoring that more than 75% or NHL players start to heavily decline between the ages of 31-33 (Ekholm will turn 33 this season), he will be 36 and a UFA at the end of his deal, likely when this team really hits it's stride. At that point, this team will be

Cozens -25
Krebs -25
Peterka -24
Quinn -24
Thompson -28
Tuch -29
Mittelstadt -27
Dahlin -25
Power -23
Sameulsson-26
Levi -24
Kulich -22
Savoie -22
Ostlund -22

I keep reading posts that argue that this team is wasting Thomspon's and Dahlin's prime seasons by not going all in now, but if we are being honest, during this recent collapse, Dahlin and Thompson have been pretty bad and two of the biggest reasons why the team is struggling. They are still learning as well and will only get better.

Being patient here is hard, but there is no way this team doesn't absolutely make huge strides, even without big moves as all the players mature and develop more.

That isn't to say Adams shouldn't absolutely look for big upgrades during the offseason, just that we can afford to wait for better fitting solutions (even if it is a bit of an overpay) than just what was lurking out there during the TDL.

I completely understand your argument here. I even get its allure.

However, I want no part of waiting 3.5 more years to field a lineup of smurfs that will get caved. Show me a set of lines with those forwards that works. It is also a HUGE leap to assume all those prospects become playoff caliber NHL players.

 

[Irie]

I completely understand your argument here. I even get its allure.

However, I want no part of waiting 3.5 more years to field a lineup of smurfs that will get caved. Show me a set of lines with those forwards that works. It is also a HUGE leap to assume all those prospects become playoff caliber NHL players.

I am not saying that the team is going to be a contender as is with time.

I have been complaining about the tiny forward draft strategy for a couple of seasons now as well, but it is looking like a lot of those forwards are going to be pretty good, and they will have value to move out to bring in the types of players that aren't really core, but are necessary to reach the next level.

My perspective (which has usually been mistaken for an Adams apologist campaign slogan) is that it is too early to trade for guys that are not guaranteed to be around in 3+ years.

I am all for bringing in better core players with picks or prospects if they fit the teams needs and are young enough or still upcoming RFAs to have team control and give the Sabres a solid chance of retaining them.

And if the scouting department thinks the best D or best power forward type player available when they pick in the draft is a long shot at best, but there is another small skilled winger they are fairly certain is going to hit, I guess it makes sense to keep drafting those small forwards with high picks and only reach to fill the obvious holes in the farm with later picks *IF* you are alright trading those skilled forwards down the road for players that better fit team needs. This is where i am at mentally now regarding this team. I *hope* Adams is looking to deal some of these talented smurfs for better fitting pieces. (we just can't get too attached to all the Quinns, Rosens and Peterkas, which is difficult as you watch them break into the league and grow with the team.)

 

[BFLO]

If I were Dahlin, I’d refuse to extend with the Sabres until/unless they start making moves to win this offseason.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Yeah, hard argument to make with me since I made all those same arguments against Chychrun. Excellent player, and the right kind of idea, just the wrong fit.

I absolutely would have been open to Savoie as a main piece acquiring 3.5 years of Ekholm though, because he fit everything we needed. The value would have been there.

As far as the bolded, it absolutely makes sense to trade away prospects that don't fit what you are trying to do at the NHL level, because you are supposed to be trading them for pieces that DO fit what you are trying to do.

I was among the biggest advocates of trading for Ekholm on our board. I would not trade Savoie for him.

Buddy a team that has all that should 100% be a playoff team in a league where half the teams make the playoffs.

The fact that we won’t be should be raising alarm bells for the fans as to why.

I bet if I looked I could disprove this rather easily. The 2016-2017 Lightning come to mind right off the bat and I didn’t even look.

 

[sabremike]

The fact that doing something about the dilapidated decaying run down toilet of an arena doesn't appear to be much of a priority speaks volumes as to how much (or little) the Pegulas values us. If they were actively trying to accomplish this as hard as they were the gridball stadium maybe I wouldn't be so cynical about the team not using it's insane amounts of cap space to aquire assets or (GASP!) a couple of vets who could've prevented the epic warp speed collapse that has us headed for the magic 12 in a row (and counting).

 

[BuffaloGooner]

View attachment 674198

If I were Dahlin, I’d refuse to extend with the Sabres until/unless they start making moves to win this offseason.

I’ll give you 10.5 million reasons over 8 years of Dahlin’s life on why he’ll extend. It’s not a worry.

 

[Tatanka]

I’ll give you 10.5 million reasons over 8 years of Dahlin’s life on why he’ll extend. It’s not a worry.

He’s gonna get that anyway. The question is will he give 4.5 for two years to get that and a possibility of playing playing playoff hockey?

 

[K8fool]

He's been injured like Sammy tuch Thompson and a few others. They learn to protect themselves we mainly have the team here and in the minors to make the playoffs..
Add Sammy2 and scorer forecheck guy w 150 hits we can compete w anyone

 

[old kummelweck]

He’s gonna get that anyway. The question is will he give 4.5 for two years to get that and a possibility of playing playing playoff hockey?

Could you imagine? He'll get his big, long-term deal, but if Sabres couldn't sign him to that, it would be the nail in the coffin for this particular fan.

 

[Jim Bob]

Ekholm is the right kind of player imo as well, but the age makes him a bad fit to give up a ton of capital that can be used elsewhere to bring in a better aged fitting solution, imo.

The challenge is what "better aged fitting solution" is available?

 

[Chainshot]

The challenge is what "better aged fitting solution" is available?

Clifton hasn't turned 28 yet.

 

[Jim Bob]

Clifton hasn't turned 28 yet.

I just do not see a guy who has never played 19 minutes a night as a great option to solve the problem at 4D next to Power.

I see him more as a good 5-8 guy.

 

[Chainshot]

I just do not see a guy who has never played 19 minutes a night as a great option to solve the problem at 4D next to Power.

I see him more as a good 5-8 guy.

Yeah, why would a guy who has been part of one of the better defensive 2nd pairs in the league the last few years be unable to play on the Sabres shitty 2nd pair.

 

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, why would a guy who has been part of one of the better defensive 2nd pairs in the league the last few years be unable to play on the Sabres shitty 2nd pair.

Owen Power is averaging almost 5 minutes more EV TOI per game than Clifton has with the Bruins. Playing Clifton up the lineup would be a projection and nowhere near the same as adding a proven vet like Ekholm.

 

[Chainshot]

Owen Power is averaging almost 5 minutes more EV TOI per game than Clifton has with the Bruins. Playing Clifton up the lineup would be a projection and nowhere near the same as adding a proven vet like Ekholm.

Power gets double shifted with Dahlin in offensive situations because the team is chasing goals. He's not always out there with Jokiharju or Clague. In recent weeks with Dahlin's dings, he's pulling down even more, including some double shifting with Samuelsson. You are ignoring the situation and thinking he's just out there with one partner. Power-Dahlin are their fourth highest deployed ES minute pair for the entire season.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

He’s gonna get that anyway. The question is will he give 4.5 for two years to get that and a possibility of playing playing playoff hockey?

I don’t think the organization and players are in this doom and gloom space the fans are. They didn’t contribute to the entire 12 year drought. They see themselves as a young up and coming team as they should.

 

[dortt]

If you're building a roster based on the exact roster you want, and trade away those you think don't fit, you'll get to a point where you wonder why the team gave up a future top 6 forward for a bottom 6 role player. That's bad business.

I'd say its proper team building

It just goes against the fantasy team building that several advocate for here. In the real world, fantasy teams do not usually win

 

[Jim Bob]

Power gets double shifted with Dahlin in offensive situations because the team is chasing goals. He's not always out there with Jokiharju or Clague. In recent weeks with Dahlin's dings, he's pulling down even more, including some double shifting with Samuelsson. You are ignoring the situation and thinking he's just out there with one partner. Power-Dahlin are their fourth highest deployed ES minute pair for the entire season.

Even if you look at replacing Jokiharju's ES TOI minutes, it is 2+ minutes more per night.

Clifton has largely been playing behind McAvoy & Carlo in Boston. That would be a very different role here and would be a projection that he could hang.

 

[Tatanka]

I don’t think the organization and players are in this doom and gloom space the fans are. They didn’t contribute to the entire 12 year drought. They see themselves as a young up and coming team as they should.

I was pointing out the original calculus in the post is not accurate. The decision is to forgo 2 years of 4.5mm based on the perceived salary he could receive.

I would also say that lumping the organization and players into the same category is misguided. The organization may very well believe that things are fine based on their objectives. As individuals, the player's objectives are not necessarily the same. Do I believe Dahlin walks? Probably not simply based on the ability to gain an 8th year. But I do not assume that things are fine nor that the individuals in any organization make their best interests subservient to the collective.

 

[dortt]

The fact that doing something about the dilapidated decaying run down toilet of an arena doesn't appear to be much of a priority speaks volumes as to how much (or little) the Pegulas values us. If they were actively trying to accomplish this as hard as they were the gridball stadium maybe I wouldn't be so cynical about the team not using it's insane amounts of cap space to aquire assets or (GASP!) a couple of vets who could've prevented the epic warp speed collapse that has us headed for the magic 12 in a row (and counting).

It's almost as if Pegula bought the Sabres to kill them, leaving the Bills as the only viable team in the region.

He knew the Wilson's had to sell the Bills and he could overpay. He also knew that a permanently down Sabres would funnel more money to the Bills

 

[TehDoak]

I bet if I looked I could disprove this rather easily. The 2016-2017 Lightning come to mind right off the bat and I didn’t even look.

That team missed the playoffs by 1 point and Stamkos was out most of the season.

And this was after they lost in the ECF the year before.

We've had nominal injuries and are going to miss the playoffs by 10 points.

That was a talented team, built well, with a good coach, that caught some bad breaks.

We're a talented team that kept it close through 60 games and imploded down the stretch.

 

[Bendium]

I am not saying that the team is going to be a contender as is with time.

I have been complaining about the tiny forward draft strategy for a couple of seasons now as well, but it is looking like a lot of those forwards are going to be pretty good, and they will have value to move out to bring in the types of players that aren't really core, but are necessary to reach the next level.

My perspective (which has usually been mistaken for an Adams apologist campaign slogan) is that it is too early to trade for guys that are not guaranteed to be around in 3+ years.

I am all for bringing in better core players with picks or prospects if they fit the teams needs and are young enough or still upcoming RFAs to have team control and give the Sabres a solid chance of retaining them.

And if the scouting department thinks the best D or best power forward type player available when they pick in the draft is a long shot at best, but there is another small skilled winger they are fairly certain is going to hit, I guess it makes sense to keep drafting those small forwards with high picks and only reach to fill the obvious holes in the farm with later picks *IF* you are alright trading those skilled forwards down the road for players that better fit team needs. This is where i am at mentally now regarding this team. I *hope* Adams is looking to deal some of these talented smurfs for better fitting pieces. (we just can't get too attached to all the Quinns, Rosens and Peterkas, which is difficult as you watch them break into the league and grow with the team.)

Well, we are definitely getting closer in thinking. As long as we can agree to trade prospects and picks that don't fit for long term core assets that do fit then we have a good foundation to work off of. While we have alot of the core in place, we are definitely missing several core pieces that I do not see coming in the prospect pipeline.

We probably disagree on a move like Ekholm, but my feeling is that 3.5 years of Ekholm would have made the whole team better, and the value of what he could have taught Power, Sammy, and Dahlin, would have paid benefits long after he left. Just think about the last 10 games with him in the lineup. Do you think he would have just dropped his head and took it? No, he would have risen up and become the Viking warrior he is capable of, and both the other team AND our team would have been in the target zone. He would not have just let these kids cry on the bench. His foot would have been all the way up their arse. We need that for the proper development of the kids that are already on the team. That is as valuable as a younger long term core player right now IMHO

 

[Tatanka]

It's almost as if Pegula bought the Sabres to kill them, leaving the Bills as the only viable team in the region.

He knew the Wilson's had to sell the Bills and he could overpay. He also knew that a permanently down Sabres would funnel more money to the Bills

Buying an NFL franchise is the equivalent for billionaires of buying an annuity. I do not think the two are related. Managing the two franchises under one structure is a different topic of conversation.

 

[Bendium]

The challenge is what "better aged fitting solution" is available?

I think this board has shifted to really undervaluing players that are not under 25. Not sure why. Most players are not even hitting thier prime till 25-27 and are rock solid right thru 33-35 depending on the player. I have zero issue with signing a 27 year old player to a 7 year contract taking them to 35 years old. You could argue that the AAV might be high the last couple years as they slide down a line. However, noone considers when you sign a 23 year old to a 7 year contract you are waiting a few years for them to move UP the lineup.

 

[Jim Bob]

I think this board has shifted to really undervaluing players that are not under 25. Not sure why. Most players are not even hitting thier prime till 25-27 and are rock solid right thru 33-35 depending on the player. I have zero issue with signing a 27 year old player to a 7 year contract taking them to 35 years old. You could argue that the AAV might be high the last couple years as they slide down a line. However, noone considers when you sign a 23 year old to a 7 year contract you are waiting a few years for them to move UP the lineup.

OK, so who is that player for you?