Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Bendium]

What if Savoie is far and away the best winger the Sabres have drafted in the last 6 years? Better than Quinn, Peterka, Kulich, all of them?

I would place a boatload of trade value on Savoie and pretty close to it on Kulich. And not just "1st round equivalent" as many would want to treat them.

What if, what if, what if. He is a first-round draft pick with one year of development on him. Thats it. Who knows what he will become. Even if he becomes a good little winger. So what! Its not what the team needs. We need bigger physical forwards and Dmen. We need a damn goalie. We don't need four more teenie weenie beanie wingers!

What if he could become a top 4 dman with term right now! Oh wait, he could have.

Some teams go get Ekholm. Some teams go get Stillman.

Everyone wants to talk about the price of doing it but we should be talking about the cost of not.

How do I "like" this 400 times!

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Some teams go get Ekholm. Some teams go get Stillman.

Everyone wants to talk about the price of doing it but we should be talking about the cost of not.

It goes against the "plan" and the "timeline". It's ok though we can always rely on getting career years from our top 4 forwards and top dman. No need to make a move to go over the top, only loser franchises trade prospects and picks for impact players. We do things the "right" way. Trust the process.

 

[Jim Bob]

What if, what if, what if. He is a first-round draft pick with one year of development on him. Thats it. Who knows what he will become. Even if he becomes a good little winger. So what! Its not what the team needs. We need bigger physical forwards and Dmen. We need a damn goalie. We don't need four more teenie weenie beanie wingers!

What if he could become a top 4 dman with term right now! Oh wait, he could have.

What if he becomes a Nikita Kucherov or Brayden Point and they traded him for a guy that was a top 4 D for a couple of seasons?

Savoie is not the only trade asset the Sabres could move.

 

[Jim Bob]

Insider Trading: Calgary Flames' struggles spark more questions | TSN

The TSN Hockey Insiders discuss whether the struggling Flames have started to run out of gas in their playoff push, why the Matthew Knies watch is officially on in Toronto, who will head up Team Canada at the World Hockey Championship, and much more.

www.tsn.ca

Duthie: Your Insiders today are Darren Dreger and Chris Johnston; there are races for the playoffs, and then there's whatever's going on for the second wild card [spot] in the West – doesn't seem like anybody wants it. [The Calgary Flames] are right there, and yet, Dregs, how do you explain that performance against the Los Angeles Kings (an 8-2 defeat on Monday), where they looked like they were already out of it?

Dreger: Well if you want a team-friendly explanation it's that they were out of gas, they've been travelling, they had some wear and tear last week and they just weren't ready mentally or physically for the Kings, and that's evident in an 8-2 beatdown. Then you look closer and you look at the ice time: Nazem Kadri's ice time is diminished here in the month of March. He played 12 minutes, 35 seconds in that game against the Kings, clearly he's not in [head coach] Darryl Sutter's good books these days. Sutter, we know, isn't a 'hug it out' type of coach, he's hard on his players, but is that hardness starting to take its toll? So is this a team that even though they're on the cusp of a playoff spot in the Western Conference, are starting to run out of gas, fed up [with Sutter], or both?

It is really going to be interesting to see what the Flames do this off season...

 

[Der Jaeger]

I think it's reboot time. Bye to goaltenders, Okposo, Jokiharju, Olofsson and all the cannon fodder.
Our leading players need support and reduced ice time. We need to upgrade the top end of our roster and bump almost everyone down a notch.

That's not a reboot. That's just normal off-season business that every team does.

Upgrading the top of the roster will require moving Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, etc. Adams already showed he won't do it, and it's foolish to do anyway.

 

[StrompTroller]

What if he becomes a Nikita Kucherov or Brayden Point and they traded him for a guy that was a top 4 D for a couple of seasons?

Savoie is not the only trade asset the Sabres could move.

"what if"...thats a scary road to go down especially when trying to prove a point...

or trying to improve a franchise.

I'd trade Savoie right now for say 6 more wins. Those wins would of course come from the player I added to the roster at the expense of a young talented player not anywhere near the current roster.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Why are we arguing about Savoie? Not one prospect of Savoies value was moved. Just heavily protected 1sts and Rosen level prospects were moved. And I am sure there were other impact players who didn't move but could have if a 1st+2nd+Rosen package was offered. Just pathetic that a playoff caliber team got NO help brought in.

 

[Bendium]

What if he becomes a Nikita Kucherov or Brayden Point and they traded him for a guy that was a top 4 D for a couple of seasons?

Savoie is not the only trade asset the Sabres could move.

You never know what the future holds on a prospect. However, being frozen out of fear that a player could someday be a .05% result? Thats not a recipe for success.

100% agree Savoie is not the only one tradeable. Its just the name that got brought up. I don't really have an untradeable prospect on my list. It just depends on the Sabres team needs and what the trade value is.

I know everyone is in love with Levi, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for a 25-26 year old goaltender just coming into his prime that could lock up my starting goalie role for the next 8 years.

Kulich is the most valuable prospect we have to me, not because I am saying he is the most skilled, but because he is one of the few prospects we have that is on target to fill an actual need. Rosen, Savoie, and Ostland don't really fit the holes I have on my playoff roster. If you are looking for one of those three to be on the team then you must be advocating we trade Quinn or JJP or Krebs to make room.

We have 7-8 draft picks this year, and get 7 more EVERY year it turns out. We need to be more willing to use picks and prospects to concentrate value into the actual holes and needs the NHL team needs. Lets not forget the NHL team is all that matters. You get 0 pts in the standings for all the dry powder you save.

 

[Der Jaeger]

You never know what the future holds on a prospect. However, being frozen out of fear that a player could someday be a .05% result? Thats not a recipe for success.

100% agree Savoie is not the only one tradeable. Its just the name that got brought up. I don't really have an untradeable prospect on my list. It just depends on the Sabres team needs and what the trade value is.

I know everyone is in love with Levi, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for a 25-26 year old goaltender just coming into his prime that could lock up my starting goalie role for the next 8 years.

Kulich is the most valuable prospect we have to me, not because I am saying he is the most skilled, but because he is one of the few prospects we have that is on target to fill an actual need. Rosen, Savoie, and Ostland don't really fit the holes I have on my playoff roster. If you are looking for one of those three to be on the team then you must be advocating we trade Quinn or JJP or Krebs to make room.

We have 7-8 draft picks this year, and get 7 more EVERY year it turns out. We need to be more willing to use picks and prospects to concentrate value into the actual holes and needs the NHL team needs. Lets not forget the NHL team is all that matters. You get 0 pts in the standings for all the dry powder you save.

If you're building a roster based on the exact roster you want, and trade away those you think don't fit, you'll get to a point where you wonder why the team gave up a future top 6 forward for a bottom 6 role player. That's bad business.

 

[Jim Bob]

"what if"...thats a scary road to go down especially when trying to prove a point...

or trying to improve a franchise.

I'd trade Savoie right now for say 6 more wins. Those wins would of course come from the player I added to the roster at the expense of a young talented player not anywhere near the current roster.

Everything is a what if conversation.

What if the Sens didn’t trade for Chychrun? What if the Preds held on to Ekholm?

And no Savoie trade is guaranteed to improve the Sabres that much. It could be a trade that doesn’t help at all, too.

 

[Jim Bob]

You never know what the future holds on a prospect. However, being frozen out of fear that a player could someday be a .05% result? Thats not a recipe for success.

100% agree Savoie is not the only one tradeable. Its just the name that got brought up. I don't really have an untradeable prospect on my list. It just depends on the Sabres team needs and what the trade value is.

I know everyone is in love with Levi, but I would trade him in a heartbeat for a 25-26 year old goaltender just coming into his prime that could lock up my starting goalie role for the next 8 years.

Kulich is the most valuable prospect we have to me, not because I am saying he is the most skilled, but because he is one of the few prospects we have that is on target to fill an actual need. Rosen, Savoie, and Ostland don't really fit the holes I have on my playoff roster. If you are looking for one of those three to be on the team then you must be advocating we trade Quinn or JJP or Krebs to make room.

We have 7-8 draft picks this year, and get 7 more EVERY year it turns out. We need to be more willing to use picks and prospects to concentrate value into the actual holes and needs the NHL team needs. Lets not forget the NHL team is all that matters. You get 0 pts in the standings for all the dry powder you save.

I think Savoie is going to be a much more impactful NHLer than Peterka, Krebs, or Kulich. And I think he will be more impactful than Quinn.

I never said that I would reject any trade ideas involving Savoie. I just have him valued really highly from a trade value POV and I am not slotting him as a generic 1st round equivalent such as he is a piece that goes along with the Sabres ‘23 1st for a player that is a short term (2-3 years) add.

 

[HaNotsri]

That's not a reboot. That's just normal off-season business that every team does.

Upgrading the top of the roster will require moving Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, etc. Adams already showed he won't do it, and it's foolish to do anyway.

We have an abundance of picks to use. Picking defensemen now likely won't make a difference in time before this core start to rot.

I wouldn't move those guys but a move with our first at the draft should be possible now that we're dropping like a rock.

If we can get a Chychrun or Ekholm level d, two goaltenders, a stable bottom pairing defensemen and a good forward I think we can have a legit shot at the wildcard next year.
After that a wave of Kulich and Savoie should get us into contention.

 

[sabremike]

That's not a reboot. That's just normal off-season business that every team does.

Upgrading the top of the roster will require moving Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund, etc. Adams already showed he won't do it, and it's foolish to do anyway.

How many more seasons of being pathetic hopeless sad sacks are you willing to sit through? How many is this rapidly dying fanbase (note how half our "home" games see 40% or greater visiting fan support) willing to sit through? When do we start acting like an actual NHL organization, when do we start having standards? I'm sick and tired of everything always being "wait till next year" and then 365 days later being told the same exact thing. Anyone trying to claim growth this season is committing an act of wishful thinking because we may not even top last season's point total and the free fall has us right back into the toxic atmosphere we supposedly had cleaned up. The coaching staff has no idea what to do to stop the free fall and appear completely in over their heads. Adams Waiting For Godot crap tossed this season straight off Niagara Falls and is going to lead to nothing but neverending failure. The "we must wait for all the teams in front of us to fall off before trying to win" strategy makes me sick.

 

[Der Jaeger]

We have an abundance of picks to use. Picking defensemen now likely won't make a difference in time before this core start to rot.

I wouldn't move those guys but a move with our first at the draft should be possible now that we're dropping like a rock.

If we can get a Chychrun or Ekholm level d, two goaltenders, a stable bottom pairing defensemen and a good forward I think we can have a legit shot at the wildcard next year.
After that a wave of Kulich and Savoie should get us into contention.

Let's not pretend like the majority of the roster are a bunch of aging vets. The majority of the key players aren't even 25 years old yet.

I'm all good with trying to get a Chychrun or Ekholm. Apparently Adams was too, but throwing away top prospects isn't the way to go.

How many more seasons of being pathetic hopeless sad sacks are you willing to sit through? How many is this rapidly dying fanbase (note how half our "home" games see 40% or greater visiting fan support) willing to sit through? When do we start acting like an actual NHL organization, when do we start having standards? I'm sick and tired of everything always being "wait till next year" and then 365 days later being told the same exact thing. Anyone trying to claim growth this season is committing an act of wishful thinking because we may not even top last season's point total and the free fall has us right back into the toxic atmosphere we supposedly had cleaned up. The coaching staff has no idea what to do to stop the free fall and appear completely in over their heads. Adams Waiting For Godot crap tossed this season straight off Niagara Falls and is going to lead to nothing but neverending failure. The "we must wait for all the teams in front of us to fall off before trying to win" strategy makes me sick.

Making decisions while angry or frustrated seems like a great way to regret moves.

The current Sabres aren't even close to the toxic times during Eichel's tenure.

At some point, they have to commit to a plan, even as rocky as the road might be.

BTW, if we talked in August and said the Sabres would contend all the way to March, where the youthfulness of the roster would cause the team to fall out of contention, most of us would've called that par for the season. It's only now that we're pissed. Seems like a bad time to decide to make moves.

 

[Chainshot]

Greenway never played on the 4th line in MN. He also didn't want leave ... more the other way around.

Sabre fans have a hard time with numbering lines. Instead of saying "checking line", many, including people who cover the team, call it a 4th line. It doesn't mean it's true, doesn't even fit with the ice time at 5-on-5... but it's something that happens.

 

[sabremike]

Let's not pretend like the majority of the roster are a bunch of aging vets. The majority of the key players aren't even 25 years old yet.

I'm all good with trying to get a Chychrun or Ekholm. Apparently Adams was too, but throwing away top prospects isn't the way to go.

Making decisions while angry or frustrated seems like a great way to regret moves.

The current Sabres aren't even close to the toxic times during Eichel's tenure.

At some point, they have to commit to a plan, even as rocky as the road might be.

BTW, if we talked in August and said the Sabres would contend all the way to March, where the youthfulness of the roster would cause the team to fall out of contention, most of us would've called that par for the season. It's only now that we're pissed. Seems like a bad time to decide to make moves.

They haven't just fallen out of contention: they have fallen apart into a million pieces with an epic meltdown. They are giving up touchdowns every other game and just got murdered on home ice by a team icing a roster that might be worse than a few AHL teams. The only "improvement" in the overall standings will have more to do with a close to historic number of absolutely dreadful and uncompetitive teams this season, and even then we went from 8th to 10th or 11th.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

The reason why any timeline or "plan" is complete bullshit are the 2 expansion teams. Especially Seattle. How the hell can you be so inept or think you need to wait years to make the playoffs when those 2 took cast offs and are solid playoff teams. Seattle drafted a laughable roster at the time and now they are a top Western team. Who we have never beat.

Dump the non impact players. Girgs, Okposo, Bryson, Jokiharju, Mitts, Olofsson, Clague. Good enough players on a team who hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years is not how you change that.

I really hope Dahlin is willing to sign long term in July. I would give him a blank check.

 

[Bendium]

If you're building a roster based on the exact roster you want, and trade away those you think don't fit, you'll get to a point where you wonder why the team gave up a future top 6 forward for a bottom 6 role player. That's bad business.

Lol. Thats all you got? Making up a scenario where the only option is trading future good players for current crappy ones? Come on now, that just about as disingenuous as you can get.

 

[Der Jaeger]

They haven't just fallen out of contention: they have fallen apart into a million pieces with an epic meltdown. They are giving up touchdowns every other game and just got murdered on home ice by a team icing a roster that might be worse than a few AHL teams. The only "improvement" in the overall standings will have more to do with a close to historic number of absolutely dreadful and uncompetitive teams this season, and even then we went from 8th to 10th or 11th.

A bunch of young kids got thrown into the fire of a playoff race, with a compressed schedule due to weather events outside of their control, and fell apart? Say it ain't so.

The Sabres now have a proven top line with a legit 1C. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres now have a proven 2C. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres now have a proven Norris calibur defenseman. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres now have a proven shutdown defender. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres are a prolific goal scoring team with speed and skill.

The Sabres have a bunch of young kids who are learning their way and just completed their first full NHL season as contributors.

The difference between the 2022 Sabres and the 2023 Sabres is huge. Record doesn't capture that.

Or we can just judge by standings and scream at the clouds.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Lol. Thats all you got? Making up a scenario where the only option is trading future good players for current crappy ones? Come on now, that just about as disingenuous as you can get.

Yeah, let's send Savoie to Arizona for Chychrun, who would get no power play time and would play 3rd fiddle to Dahlin and Power because we NEED to make the playoffs. Only to watch Chychrun continue to be who he is, which isn't what the Sabres really needed, and Savoie develop into the scoring depth the Sabres also actually need.

Prospects are just that, prospects. But it makes no sense to trade them away because they don't fit what you're trying to do at the NHL level. Especially when the deal you have offered is for someone that you don't really need.

 

[Bendium]

Yeah, let's send Savoie to Arizona for Chychrun, who would get no power play time and would play 3rd fiddle to Dahlin and Power because we NEED to make the playoffs. Only to watch Chychrun continue to be who he is, which isn't what the Sabres really needed, and Savoie develop into the scoring depth the Sabres also actually need.

Prospects are just that, prospects. But it makes no sense to trade them away because they don't fit what you're trying to do at the NHL level. Especially when the deal you have offered is for someone that you don't really need.

Yeah, hard argument to make with me since I made all those same arguments against Chychrun. Excellent player, and the right kind of idea, just the wrong fit.

I absolutely would have been open to Savoie as a main piece acquiring 3.5 years of Ekholm though, because he fit everything we needed. The value would have been there.

As far as the bolded, it absolutely makes sense to trade away prospects that don't fit what you are trying to do at the NHL level, because you are supposed to be trading them for pieces that DO fit what you are trying to do.

 

[TehDoak]

A bunch of young kids got thrown into the fire of a playoff race, with a compressed schedule due to weather events outside of their control, and fell apart? Say it ain't so.

The Sabres now have a proven top line with a legit 1C. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres now have a proven 2C. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres now have a proven Norris calibur defenseman. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres now have a proven shutdown defender. Wasn't the case in September.
The Sabres are a prolific goal scoring team with speed and skill.

The Sabres have a bunch of young kids who are learning their way and just completed their first full NHL season as contributors.

The difference between the 2022 Sabres and the 2023 Sabres is huge. Record doesn't capture that.

Or we can just judge by standings and scream at the clouds.

Buddy a team that has all that should 100% be a playoff team in a league where half the teams make the playoffs.

The fact that we won’t be should be raising alarm bells for the fans as to why.

 

[Chainshot]

Insider Trading: Calgary Flames' struggles spark more questions | TSN

The TSN Hockey Insiders discuss whether the struggling Flames have started to run out of gas in their playoff push, why the Matthew Knies watch is officially on in Toronto, who will head up Team Canada at the World Hockey Championship, and much more.

www.tsn.ca

It is really going to be interesting to see what the Flames do this off season...

Fire Treliving and Sutter would be one thought.

 

[Sabretooth]

I'd trade Savoie right now for say 6 more wins. Those wins would of course come from the player I added to the roster at the expense of a young talented player not anywhere near the current roster.

I'd think it's very unlikely the outcome of any single trade gets you 6 more wins, especially a TDL trade. If you pick up 2 good players and replace 2 bad (time for a change) players you would expect about an additional 6 wins over the course of a season. I don't think I've seen any prospect for player trades that returned 2 good (top 18%) players.

 

[Irie]

I absolutely would have been open to Savoie as a main piece acquiring 3.5 years of Ekholm though, because he fit everything we needed. The value would have been there.

As far as the bolded, it absolutely makes sense to trade away prospects that don't fit what you are trying to do at the NHL level, because you are supposed to be trading them for pieces that DO fit what you are trying to do.

Ekholm is the right kind of player imo as well, but the age makes him a bad fit to give up a ton of capital that can be used elsewhere to bring in a better aged fitting solution, imo.

Ignoring that more than 75% or NHL players start to heavily decline between the ages of 31-33 (Ekholm will turn 33 this season), he will be 36 and a UFA at the end of his deal, likely when this team really hits it's stride. At that point, this team will be

Cozens -25
Krebs -25
Peterka -24
Quinn -24
Thompson -28
Tuch -29
Mittelstadt -27
Dahlin -25
Power -23
Sameulsson-26
Levi -24
Kulich -22
Savoie -22
Ostlund -22

I keep reading posts that argue that this team is wasting Thomspon's and Dahlin's prime seasons by not going all in now, but if we are being honest, during this recent collapse, Dahlin and Thompson have been pretty bad and two of the biggest reasons why the team is struggling. They are still learning as well and will only get better.

Being patient here is hard, but there is no way this team doesn't absolutely make huge strides, even without big moves as all the players mature and develop more.

That isn't to say Adams shouldn't absolutely look for big upgrades during the offseason, just that we can afford to wait for better fitting solutions (even if it is a bit of an overpay) than just what was lurking out there during the TDL.