Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Bendium]

Let’s look at the options aside from Jost, Mittelstadt, and Greenway.

Jost: if we’re looking for a 4C, there aren’t great options that are far more compelling than Jost. Most of the decent centers aren’t coming to Buffalo to be a 3 or 4 C.

Greenway and Mittelstadt: if you look at Capfriendly for forwards who will be available this off season who have 40 or more points, and will play 3rd line minutes, the list gets real small fast. Sort the list by points and you’re down to about 10 forwards, most of who aren’t coming to Buffalo. Same with power forwards. Even less of them.

Improving the roster isn’t the issue. When we look at available and possible options, who are upgrades and would come to Buffalo, the list gets small.

Hanging onto Jost, Mittelstadt, and Greenway, and banking on their personal improvement seems to be the best option. And if it doesn’t work, Savoie, Kulich and the rest of the forward prospects aren’t far off.

Jost does not have the size, physicality, or faceoff percentage we need. Same as Krebs. Is there hard play and energy there? Sure, but we need more than that. We have so many spots that are just filled with....a guy. So one of Krebs/Jost can be serviceable with the right wingers to compensate, but the alternative is to just get better players at those positions that bring the utility you want. If you can't get one as a UFA, then you must trade for one. Not all offseason acquisitions have to be UFA's.

Mitts/Greenway. Everyone keeps trying to put greenway on the fourth line. Part of why he wanted out of Minny was because he was very unhappy playing on the fourth line. He doesn't really play a 4th line kind of game. Our best hope there is that he embraces the third line winger roles being a physical puck battling power forward, holding position, getting off decent passes, scoring some, and being defensively responsible. Same as Mitts really, except Mitts has more speed and hand skill, while Greenway is bigger and better defensively. Chose wqhichever goes best with the other 3rd line options you have to go with them. If is is a center like Krebs/Jost, and a RW like Olofsson or JJP, then you will want greenways size more than what Mitts brings. Either way...there is one spot. Pick one.

 

[Zman5778]

Mitts/Greenway. Everyone keeps trying to put greenway on the fourth line. Part of why he wanted out of Minny was because he was very unhappy playing on the fourth line. He doesn't really play a 4th line kind of game. Our best hope there is that he embraces the third line winger roles being a physical puck battling power forward, holding position, getting off decent passes, scoring some, and being defensively responsible. Same as Mitts really, except Mitts has more speed and hand skill, while Greenway is bigger and better defensively. Chose wqhichever goes best with the other 3rd line options you have to go with them. If is is a center like Krebs/Jost, and a RW like Olofsson or JJP, then you will want greenways size more than what Mitts brings. Either way...there is one spot. Pick one.

Both Mitts and Greenway are capable of playing RW. I see Mitts and Greenway as playing very complementary games and might make for excellent wingmen for whoever we put at center.

Mitts/Krebs/Greenway intrigues the hell out of me as a 3rd line that can score.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Jost does not have the size, physicality, or faceoff percentage we need. Same as Krebs. Is there hard play and energy there? Sure, but we need more than that. We have so many spots that are just filled with....a guy. So one of Krebs/Jost can be serviceable with the right wingers to compensate, but the alternative is to just get better players at those positions that bring the utility you want. If you can't get one as a UFA, then you must trade for one. Not all offseason acquisitions have to be UFA's.

Mitts/Greenway. Everyone keeps trying to put greenway on the fourth line. Part of why he wanted out of Minny was because he was very unhappy playing on the fourth line. He doesn't really play a 4th line kind of game. Our best hope there is that he embraces the third line winger roles being a physical puck battling power forward, holding position, getting off decent passes, scoring some, and being defensively responsible. Same as Mitts really, except Mitts has more speed and hand skill, while Greenway is bigger and better defensively. Chose wqhichever goes best with the other 3rd line options you have to go with them. If is is a center like Krebs/Jost, and a RW like Olofsson or JJP, then you will want greenways size more than what Mitts brings. Either way...there is one spot. Pick one.

You're diluting this down to just the evaluation of the current player.

Sure, the team isn't getting the 4C type of play from Krebs or Jost. The best Buffalo is probably going to get is someone like Colton Sissons. And while Jost isn't the physical power forward the team needs, he's gritty, plays tough minutes, and has produced. No need to move on from a player that is actually playing pretty well.

Krebs is too young and still learning how to be a pro. Colorado walked away from Jost at age 25 because he wasn't who they thought they were getting when they drafted him. Krebs is 21. No need to move on from Krebs because he doesn't fit what the team currently needs.

It's also not an either/or with Greenway and Mittelstadt. That's a construct generated by thinking that the Sabres have to have traditional 3rd and 4th lines. The Sabres are not on track to have those types of traditional lines whether Adams moves on from Mittelstadt and Greenway anyway. Where are Savoie and Kulich going to play when they get to Buffalo? 3rd and 4th lines to start. That's where the organization is headed. Adams isn't going to trade anyone in the top 6 just because Savoie is on the "3rd" line.

There's no one that Buffalo is going to get who is coming in and replacing what Mittelstadt is giving the team right now with a significant cost. He's going to be a 50 point winger. That would make him a top 10-15 free agent if he were an UFA this off season.

Greenway is a project right now so who really cares where he plays for a while.

And if you're hung up on the center, just re-do the trades I proposed:

Olofsson, Bryson, and a pick for Sissons and Fabbro.
Jokiharju for Comtois.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Peterka
Comtois - Krebs - Mittelstadt
Greenway - Sissons - Jost

 

[CowbellConray]

I'm not sure he's down to Okposo of this year levels yet, but he's a fit where he is in Tampa due to being committed to their system and having played so long with his linemates. There would be the question of if he A) wants to leave Tampa (there has been no indication), B) wherever he goes using him in a similar role (no guarantee), and C) how much more does his play fall off? Three years ago, sure, but now? Nah.

I was a proponent of a Pysyk for Killorn swap back in 2013 before Killorn really broke out. He was such a solid middle six winger.

Now, at 33, I just dont see his game going anywhere but down, and I really think he will struggle as the NHL continues to get faster. I'd rather throw 3 million at a speedy bottom six grinder whose 27/28 then Killorn.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Both Mitts and Greenway are capable of playing RW. I see Mitts and Greenway as playing very complementary games and might make for excellent wingmen for whoever we put at center.

Mitts/Krebs/Greenway intrigues the hell out of me as a 3rd line that can score.

Mittelstadt has worked well with a bigger player and a small playmaker on his line. His WJC production was with Bellows/Tkachuk and I think either Yamamoto or Anderson was the other winger.

 

[Daz28]

You're diluting this down to just the evaluation of the current player.

Sure, the team isn't getting the 4C type of play from Krebs or Jost. The best Buffalo is probably going to get is someone like Colton Sissons. And while Jost isn't the physical power forward the team needs, he's gritty, plays tough minutes, and has produced. No need to move on from a player that is actually playing pretty well.

Krebs is too young and still learning how to be a pro. Colorado walked away from Jost at age 25 because he wasn't who they thought they were getting when they drafted him. Krebs is 21. No need to move on from Krebs because he doesn't fit what the team currently needs.

It's also not an either/or with Greenway and Mittelstadt. That's a construct generated by thinking that the Sabres have to have traditional 3rd and 4th lines. The Sabres are not on track to have those types of traditional lines whether Adams moves on from Mittelstadt and Greenway anyway. Where are Savoie and Kulich going to play when they get to Buffalo? 3rd and 4th lines to start. That's where the organization is headed. Adams isn't going to trade anyone in the top 6 just because Savoie is on the "3rd" line.

There's no one that Buffalo is going to get who is coming in and replacing what Mittelstadt is giving the team right now with a significant cost. He's going to be a 50 point winger. That would make him a top 10-15 free agent if he were an UFA this off season.

Greenway is a project right now so who really cares where he plays for a while.

And if you're hung up on the center, just re-do the trades I proposed:

Olofsson, Bryson, and a pick for Sissons and Fabbro.
Jokiharju for Comtois.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Peterka
Comtois - Krebs - Mittelstadt
Greenway - Sissons - Jost

I think if you were going to go after one of the Ducks 'Max' power forwards, right now Max Jones would be the better choice.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I think if you were going to go after one of the Ducks 'Max' power forwards, right now Max Jones would be the better choice.

I’d love to get both.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I’d love to get both.

Let’s add Mason McTavish too :p

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

If they don't make the playoffs next season Dahlin will be gone. He will sign his QO 2 summers from now and walk off into the sunset and go to a real franchise. Dont understand the complete lack of urgency regarding him. I am sure he loves starting 0 for 5 on Just making the playoffs when HALF THE f***ING TEAMS MAKE IT

 

[BFLO]

If we continue the rest of the season at our March pace we’ll go 2-8-2 the final twelve games and finish the season with 78 points.

Does anyone consider that a success or “expectations met”?

4-15-4 the final 2 months. If this pace holds.

Oh and a -52 goal differential over this span.

Is this what “development” looks like?

 

[toomuchsauce]

far be it from me to question The Process, but I'm beginning to wonder if the boys are actually learning anything from this "playing meaningful games in March but giving up 7 goals per game in every one of them" phase. It looks like they are just collapsing in on themselves like a dying star.

 

[sabremike]

If they don't make the playoffs next season Dahlin will be gone. He will sign his QO 2 summers from now and walk off into the sunset and go to a real franchise. Dont understand the complete lack of urgency regarding him. I am sure he loves starting 0 for 5 on Just making the playoffs when HALF THE f***ING TEAMS MAKE IT

They learned nothing from Eichel. NOTHING.

 

[StrompTroller]

OK, so let's refine the argument based on what you just wrote. Here's the part you're good with:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Peterka
xxx - Krebs - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx
xxx

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - xxx
xxx - xxx
xxx

Goalie: UPL, xxx

Now let's evaluate if players can actually fill the roles:

Jost: young player, cheap, does a lot of 4C stuff already and he's an RFA.
Greenway: reclamation project who has played 8 games as a Sabre. If Granato can get him to commit, he does everything the team needs as far as a power forward goes.
Lyubushkin: physical 5-7 D on a decent contract and doesn't kill the team.
Stillman: flier the front office took on a physical defender who fills the 6/7 role. Also only played 8 games as a Sabre.
Mittelstadt: finally contributing, and he's going to hit the 50 point mark as a puck possession middle 6 winger. No reason to develop him and then move him.

Let's re-look the roster:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Peterka
Mittelstadt - Krebs - xxx
Greenway - Jost - xxx

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - xxx
xxx - Lyubushkin
Stillman

Goalie: UPL, xxx

Now take a look at the two trades I've been advocating, and see how I got there:

Olofsson to Nashville for Fabbro
Jokiharju and a pick to Anaheim for Comtois and Jones

Re-look the roster now:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Peterka
Mittelstadt - Krebs - Comtois
Greenway - Jost - Jones
xxx

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - Fabbro
xxx - Lyubushkin
Stillman

Goalie: UPL, xxx

Instead of flushing the baby with the bath water, you keep a contributing players and move on from others, like every other NHL team. Make a couple smart, but not really that big, trades that add a competent partner for Power and some forward physicality.

Now the problem is adding a goalie, a LD, and a 13th forward. That's a much easier problem to solve. This also doesn't account for Ryan Johnson, Levi, Kulich, or Savoie surprising and making the roster, but still leaves room for that to happen.

Hey you! Stop making so much sense already!

 

[toomuchsauce]

They learned nothing from Eichel. NOTHING.

which buffalo media guy is going to "remind" us about the 2018 WJC silver medal incident? it's coming...just a question of when.

 

[StrompTroller]

You know what type of player they could desperately use right now? Paul Gaustad. Big, physical, fights, can win faceoff, kill penalties, chip in some goals. The guy could do so much. I guess you don't appreciate those types of players until you don't have them.

Damn you Kea...lol

 

[dortt]

If they don't make the playoffs next season Dahlin will be gone. He will sign his QO 2 summers from now and walk off into the sunset and go to a real franchise. Dont understand the complete lack of urgency regarding him. I am sure he loves starting 0 for 5 on Just making the playoffs when HALF THE f***ING TEAMS MAKE IT

As I said before, Dahlin and our first and see if that can yield us Bedard

 

[Selanne00008]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but this seems appropriate.

Missed the last few games (lucky me). But, I always thought our GA issues stemmed from a young team, lack of defensive awareness, scheme, etc., and not AS much our actual goaltending (some yes but not as much). I've been worried that we bring in a high performing goalie and they get behind this Sabres D and they end up just as bad.

However, that doesn't seem to be the case. Save % is very low, other advanced stats like goals saved Vs. expected (or similar terminology) and we are bottom of the barrel.

Levi definitely shouldn't be thrown into this sh*t storm next year, so, who do we bring in from free agency and on D?

 

[Jim Bob]

Levi definitely shouldn't be thrown into this sh*t storm next year, so, who do we bring in from free agency and on D?

Levi isn't NHL ready. Full stop.

He needs games in the AHL to get NHL ready.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Levi isn't NHL ready. Full stop.

He needs games in the AHL to get NHL ready.

Give Levi a few NHL games now. It'll serve as a target for him mentally. He'll get to see where he needs to progress. Then send him to Rochester for all of next season.

 

[Jim Bob]

Give Levi a few NHL games now. It'll serve as a target for him mentally. He'll get to see where he needs to progress. Then send him to Rochester for all of next season.

I fully expect to Levi to get put into the rotation once the work visa and equipment issues are resolved and he has had some practices with the team to be as up to speed as possible.

And given how things are going, I expect things to look really bad even with Levi in goal. Then we have all the doom and gloom takes that Levi is a bust to look forward to!

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Although the team is giving up touchdowns, I have to say Stillman and Boosh have been playing real well, specifically Boosh. He's been our most consistent defenseman these last 15 games or so and just looks miles better than he did at the beginning of the year due to the injuries/shot blocking.

I wouldn't mind having them as our bottom pair coming back next year but if Adams can add another solid bottom pair d man (and of course add a top 4 RHD also) and have Stillman as our #7, our d core would be miles better.

 

[Snippit]

If you want to fix holes you have to be willing to spend some of the blue chip assets. The question is, what are we willing to trade?

We know Savoie/Kulich are off limits. Cozens is locked up. Quinn is pretty well untouchable. Peterka is probably not going anywhere either. Krebs I really have no clue.

The most expendable of our top end pieces, from most to least:
1. Rosen
2. 2023 1st
3. 2024 1st
4. Ostlund

At least that's how I see it. In my head, if we are without Rosen and our 2023 1st by the end of the summer that's completely acceptable as long as we have holes fixed.

 

[dortt]

If you want to fix holes you have to be willing to spend some of the blue chip assets. The question is, what are we willing to trade?

We know Savoie/Kulich are off limits. Cozens is locked up. Quinn is pretty well untouchable. Peterka is probably not going anywhere either. Krebs I really have no clue.

The most expendable of our top end pieces, from most to least:
1. Rosen
2. 2023 1st
3. 2024 1st
4. Ostlund

At least that's how I see it. In my head, if we are without Rosen and our 2023 1st by the end of the summer that's completely acceptable as long as we have holes fixed.

NOBODY is off limits.

This is the mentality as a team and fanbase we need to get over. We are a team who has missed the playoffs for 12 years. Anyone and everyone is eligible to be traded if the trade improves the team.

Better to trade someone 1 year early than 1 year too late

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

If you want to fix holes you have to be willing to spend some of the blue chip assets. The question is, what are we willing to trade?

We know Savoie/Kulich are off limits. Cozens is locked up. Quinn is pretty well untouchable. Peterka is probably not going anywhere either. Krebs I really have no clue.

The most expendable of our top end pieces, from most to least:
1. Rosen
2. 2023 1st
3. 2024 1st
4. Ostlund

At least that's how I see it. In my head, if we are without Rosen and our 2023 1st by the end of the summer that's completely acceptable as long as we have holes fixed.

I think we should get a better view of what might be available from other teams once we know what the cap will be for next season. If it remains flat and only goes up 1 million, then there will likely be several teams needing to dump some players to stay below, and several others looking to move players to make bigger changes.

There could be some decent bargains on the trade market for Buffalo to address some of their needs without even needing to spend prime assets. Hopefully they also do enough prior to UFA to show meaningful progress towards filling gaps. That could go a long way toward attracting UFA's that would be an upgrade. A goalie for example looking at the team right now may think it's not a good spot for them, but if the Sabres add some pieces and Adams does his whole vision talk with potential UFA's maybe it changes some minds if they see actions are being taken to address weak areas.

 

[Dulind]

If we continue the rest of the season at our March pace we’ll go 2-8-2 the final twelve games and finish the season with 78 points.

Does anyone consider that a success or “expectations met”?

4-15-4 the final 2 months. If this pace holds.

Oh and a -52 goal differential over this span.

Is this what “development” looks like?

I pegged the Sabres at 85 points this season - right in the fight for a WC spot.

If the last several weeks haven't been as bad as they are, I'd be satisfied with the effort. However, the way they've played in that stretch just irritates me to no end more than anything else. I'm satisfied with their progression but there's no 'effing excuse for the last month.