Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Sabre the Win]

If we lose to Toronto, I feel this will be the first time in a long time that Toronto sweep's the season series and it's a very real probability with that defensive unit.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Holy shit Olofsson is an extra? 10 games too late...

 

[Gabrielor]

I remember reports before last deadline that Adams wanted to add a vet D to partner with Power to help insulate him…and then hearing again he wanted a top 4 D early this season so they could stop having to crush Power, Dahlin and Samuelsson with usage. Now they’re all worn down completely and none of that ever happened.

But it’s about development…right?

Taking this to here.

Development won't solve his D woes. Only trading or free agency will.

If this unit isn't currently at completely full strength, it's bad, and this season has been a constant reminder of that.

 

[Sabre the Win]

they ain't going to buy him out, He's a very useful player but our team needs something else.

Is he? I see him easily replaceable with someone who benefits the Sabres in 5v5 hockey.

 

[RecycledEichel]

Power-Jokiharju
Stillman-Lyubushkin
Bryson-Clague

Spare?

This should be the final nail in the playoff chances. We need to score at least 6 each game to win at this point.

 

[Gabrielor]

This should be the final nail in the playoff chances. We need to score at least 6 each game to win at this point.

The nail was the NYI game. The last 2 haven't helped. The push ended before it began.

We got meaningful March games like we wanted. We just lost the immediate ones and so don't get extra.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Like Adams didn't say at the beginning of the year this would be another development year. Please name the players that they could have brought in that would have this team in a playoff position. I'm dying to hear all of these great missed opportunities that live inside of your head. The team starts to be competitive and some of you lose your damn minds because they didn't go out and load up in free agency.

Have you ever even once considered that part of the reason they are competitive is because of the young players getting more opportunity because of them NOT loading up in free agency? How well have all of those free agent acquisitions worked out for Detroit? Flyers? Caps? Cbus? What makes you think Buffalo wouldn't be in the same position as them right now?

You and others keep equating young players with every player on the roster. There are guys like Power and Samuellson you know have upside and then there is Bryson, who is not going anywhere. He's horrible.

Then there is the crowd that demanded Chychrun. There is a whole world in between long-term deals signed in Philadelphia and Detroit and short-term deals that leave Bryson and Clague mostly as 8 or 9 guys barely playing.

Klingberg cost nothing in terms of picks and some salary pickup, and, shockers, he's playing well in Minnesota. Luke Schenn gives you depth for a nothing 3rd rounder. What would the Sabres do with Shayne Gostisbehere when we have Bryson ready to go?

There is also the little matter of $18+ in cap room. There were multiple teams that took cap room and got 3rd, 4th and 5ths in return. Those picks could have been flipped and given the team a slight push with zero impact on the future.

I, for one do not want long-term deals with aging players, but 1-2 years deals were fine because the cap crunch is actually not until 2024-2025 when Dahlin and Power's new contracts would have to kick.

You want to buy into a narrative that guys like Bryson/Clague are being blocked. Go ahead. It's a lie. You wanna buy into the team couldn't have signed a real centre short term, go ahead. Instead we cheaped out on Vinnie Hinostoza.

If we are $15 M plus below the cap next year with the same goalies and mostly the same, will you see a problem or a missed opportunity?

This should be the final nail in the playoff chances. We need to score at least 6 each game to win at this point.

Yes, zero reason to have not found cheap replacements for Clague/Bryson. Goalie would have been tough at deadline and maybe required real talent going the other way. One of two depth required 3rd and 4ths.

 

[TehDoak]

I think there will be a market for Olofsson. We probably either have to take a contract back or retain salary though. We shall see.

A thought: olofsson for silfverberg. Assuming we can get past his NTC

 

[debaser66]

Dahlin was definitely playing through something; his usual dangles through defenders got broken up a lot; that didn't happen a few weeks ago; also his production has slowed down

 

[Chainshot]

Dahlin was definitely playing through something; his usual dangles through defenders got broken up a lot; that didn't happen a few weeks ago; also his production has slowed down

Yeah, he seemed to be laboring. That late dangle on the Rangers was old Dahlin but that's not been how he's been moving as much, that's for sure.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

I think there will be a market for Olofsson. We probably either have to take a contract back or retain salary though. We shall see.

A thought: olofsson for silfverberg. Assuming we can get past his NTC

I would like Olofsson to be a part of a package to get us a top 4 RHD. We have plenty of opinions at wing in the pipeline especially in Roch.

 

[Chainshot]

I would like Olofsson to be a part of a package to get us a top 4 RHD. We have plenty of opinions at wing in the pipeline especially in Roch.

Would you be game if they deal him but do it for something other than a defenseman and also make a deal for a defenseman? It might not be linear to be able to shift him out and also return a defenseman that they need.

 

[joshjull]

Sure, there is a ton for young players to learn defensively, board battles, sealing the wall, leverage, skate and stick tricks, and all of that takes time and improves with experience, but all of these players have been playing organized hockey for most of their lives, they can skate and they have had exposure to spacing and gapping at multiple levels already. Spacing is a pretty easy concept for many players as young as Bantams. It is the rotational shifts and adjustment reads that take time, but I have watched Junior teams learn and effectively execute disciplined spacing based D zone coverage and PKs, there is no player on the current Sabres team that doesn't have the mental capacity to quickly pick up the limited structure it requires.

What is really difficult for young players is reading situations and reacting to opposition movements while anticipating teammates actions, which is what is currently being employed.



I disagree. For an example. Hakstol in Seattle was a college coach (S Dakota), and i watched him run a similar overly aggressive D-zone and PK scheme with the Kraken for almost a year and a half. The team was undisciplined and relied on attacking pressure points to disrupt and create turnovers(like Buffalo). They would end up running in circles (like Buffalo) and gave up some of the highest HDC in the league. Their PK ran between 68-70% in year one, and was 67-69% through December of this Season.

On Dec. 15, it was announced that Dave Lowry (who was added last summer to the staff) would be taking over the D zone and PK coaching. He installed a disciplined, much less aggressive, spacing based system, and since Jan 1st, the Kraken's PK is running almost at 85%.

In Two Weeks, the system was overhauled and the results are substantial.

They still fall into all habits from time to time and break formation and end up puck chasing when someone misreads their linemates and no one covers, but it doesn't happen that often, and I anticipate that will continue to improve.




The transition game is influenced much more by their neutral and offensive zone pressure. I am talking about changes to when the opposition is set up in the Sabres zone here. Nothing should fundamentally change if they stop chasing the puck and have more D zone structure, working as a team defensively. We aren't changing the forecheck or the current aggressive neutral zone attack plan. They have been the bright spot of the team D.

In the defensive zone, currently the most common results when they finally take possession is just a clear and hope it isn't icing. With better layering, they are much more likely to intercept crossing feeds and be in a position to make a controlled pass to spring a player for a rush than the desperation clearing attempt that is the current MO.

The current system is also developing sloppy defensive habits within the young kids, which will require breaking them of at some point down the road.



While it can't be fixed in a day, it won't take years or even months.

I don't think we can sight lack of practice time as an excuse not to address the teams biggest failure. They have had all season and they have the rest of this season and training camp next year. If this team does not fix this issue, and they are PKing at 70% again next year, they likely miss the playoffs again. (This is not a personnel issue/ The Kraken had Gourde, Tanev, Wennberg, Jarnkrok, Appleton, Bastian, etc. when they were ineffective, and now have Geekie, Beniers and McCann effectively PKing. The system gives lesser skilled defensive players a job they can fallback on and do, instead of being lost half the time)

The defensive coverage in their own end is the reason this team is on the outside looking in again. If they had hall of fame goaltending, things might be different, but this board is blaming goaltending for this teams woes, and there is not a goalie available that is going to make a difference without a change to the team defense.



I feel strongly that it is the system that is currently failing the young players, and not the young players failing at the system.

Anyone that watches this team can not argue that defensively they look lost most of the time in their own zone. The young guys need more structure right now. They are drowing out there and having a system they can lean on is a great way to teach them discipline and letting them know where to be on the ice while easing their burden of reading the plays and limiting the processing and reacting they have to do.

It’s fun when real life proves my point. They were able to practice before the Rags game and like magic they were better defensively.

It’s almost as if physically reinforcing things helps a young team get dialed back in to their system.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Would you be game if they deal him but do it for something other than a defenseman and also make a deal for a defenseman? It might not be linear to be able to shift him out and also return a defenseman that they need.

Ultimately I just want him off the team and take would you can get for him. Ideally, would like to use him, maybe joki, picks and/or prospects to get a top 4 RHD. If they get a useful forward for him, I won't lose sleep over it.

 

[Chainshot]

Ultimately I just want him off the team and take would you can get for him. Ideally, would like to use him, maybe joki, picks and/or prospects to get a top 4 RHD. If they get a useful forward for him, I won't lose sleep over it.

Yeah, I'm interested at the idea of shifting Jokiharju out in a deal for another defensemen in a change of scenery type trade. I don't have confidence in him any longer. I could almost see a Fabbro-for-Jokiharju type thing where each team gets their lightly used RHD that is somewhat out of favor (with the fans at least).

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Yeah, I'm interested at the idea of shifting Jokiharju out in a deal for another defensemen in a change of scenery type trade. I don't have confidence in him any longer. I could almost see a Fabbro-for-Jokiharju type thing where each team gets their lightly used RHD that is somewhat out of favor (with the fans at least).

Yeah maybe, I'll admit I haven't looked into Fabbro much and don't know a whole lot about him but I don't really understand the hype. I feel like you're trade a guy in return for the same guy. Is Fabbro top 4 material or are people hoping a change of scenery can boost his game?

 

[Chainshot]

Yeah maybe, I'll admit I haven't looked into Fabbro much and don't know a whole lot about him but I don't really understand the hype. I feel like you're trade a guy in return for the same guy. Is Fabbro top 4 material or are people hoping a change of scenery can boost his game?

Two years ago, Fabbro was a steady stable partner for Josi. He feel off this last year and seemed to be in Hynes doghouse early. I might have a different view of hype - a few of us have talked him up from a need to fill that may be available than him being particularly special. He's not special, he's just a guy who might fill a need and get back to previous years' form.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Two years ago, Fabbro was a steady stable partner for Josi. He feel off this last year and seemed to be in Hynes doghouse early. I might have a different view of hype - a few of us have talked him up from a need to fill that may be available than him being particularly special. He's not special, he's just a guy who might fill a need and get back to previous years' form.

Fair enough. A straight swap of Joki for Fabbro wouldn't hurt. I just feel they need more help than Fabbro but having been paired with Josi does look good on the resume.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It should be but do any of us actually think they will buy his last season out? Who trades for him? Guy is bench proof so obviously Granato sees a guy who scored 20 goals and puts the blinders up for everything else, Adams probably does the same thing.

We are screwed with this guy at least until deadline next year or even worse; beyond.

If he is gone next year I will be pleasantly surprised.

Olofsson, Bryson, Comrie, and even Rosen or any lesser prospect should be on the table to parlay directly or indirectly, for a top-4 D-man, better goalie, or maybe solid defensive FW. But I'm with you...I don't expect those players to be moved. I think KA just waits until the TDL to get whatever he can, and at that point or two summers from now is when he finally makes any improvements that haven't happened yet. I'll just hope the timing still works out.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

We're winning out now boys!

Can he play defense?

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

Can he play defense?

Hopefully Minnesota gets knocked out soon so we can put Johnson in the lineup

 

[Chainshot]

Hopefully Minnesota gets knocked out soon so we can put Johnson in the lineup

They are #1 in the nation and even if they lose to Michigan in the B10 final next Saturday, they will have an at-large bid. He's weeks off at best.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

Fair enough. A straight swap of Joki for Fabbro wouldn't hurt. I just feel they need more help than Fabbro but having been paired with Josi does look good on the resume.

I wonder if Nash would do something like:

Olofsson + Jokiharju for Trenin + Fabbro

Maybe we have to add a pick?

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

They are #1 in the nation and even if they lose to Michigan in the B10 final next Saturday, they will have an at-large bid. He's weeks off at best.

damn it

I wonder if Nash would do something like:

Olofsson + Jokiharju for Trenin + Fabbro

Maybe we have to add a pick?

I am not sure if I would make that move straight up.

 

[DJN21]

I wonder if Nash would do something like:

Olofsson + Jokiharju for Trenin + Fabbro

Maybe we have to add a pick?

I'd love Trenin. I wonder if they shy away from moving him after losing the truculence Jeannot brought though.