Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[MarkusKetterer]

Am I the only one not convinced Barbashev is that good? His defensive stats are not good and he has a career high of 60 points in 81 games last year as a 26 year old. Before that his career high was 26 points. He is on pace for like 40 points this year. What am I missing on this guy?

View attachment 654970

He hits now. That’s what you’re missing

 

[Mattilaus]

Even last year though, when he was producing. He was producing way above his xG which leads one to believe there was a lot of luck involved and he was STILL a blackhole defensively with an atrocious xGA and CA.

EDIT: For reference, here is last year only, his break out year at 26

I know you need to take these charts with a grain of salt but that is a HUGE grain of salt you need to take.

 

[Irie]

You deal with it. If you have an extended core, then it’s better. The only not long term piece in those trades is Reimer, but that’s due to age. And he’d be a good coach for 6K and/or Levi.

It’s also why I wanted the slow as f*** Chara last year. Imagine him teaching Dahlin, Sammy, Joker and Power. Hell, even Bryson and Fitzy. They’re gonna listen more to a HOFer than Marty Wilford, who couldn’t even crack a shitty Preds team

I acknowledge that your ideas were long term, that is why I said I liked them and could get on board with some of them. I have been pretty adamant around here about not giving up large packages for guys that could walk in 2024 or 2025. I think it is too much of a gamble given the stigma of Buffalo and difficulty with signing UFAs. I don't know if I would necessarily trade a lot of the farm for your target players, but I can play devils advocate for both sides, so I think your logic is sound.

Reimer is under-rated in my opinion. He's been above average and fairly consistent throughout his career, yet he always seems to find himself moving on, replaced by some younger goalie who fizzles out. His teammates seem to really like him, and everything I have ever heard is that he is very professional. It makes you wonder why he hasn't stuck somewhere longer. He was who I was pushing for most last offseason on these boards. Without an agreement for a short extension, I don't think I would give up much for him currently though. He'd be a great add, but I really like the 2nd round of this 2023 draft.

 

[Chainshot]

Am I the only one not convinced Barbashev is that good? His defensive stats are not good and he has a career high of 60 points in 81 games last year as a 26 year old. Before that his career high was 26 points. He is on pace for like 40 points this year. What am I missing on this guy?

View attachment 654970

You aren't the only one. He has been style over substance.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The bolded is something I was planning to look at this week. I do not know exactly how the responsibilities are split among the coaching staff, but this offseason will be a big one for me to see wether Granato has it in him to become more than he is right now.

This team has all the PP skill you would ever need to be a top 10 unit, really top 5. Yet it struggles with a lack of creativity and seems to only have a couple plays in its book. Granato needs to go out and get a really good PP coach for his staff.

The PK is different. While I don't love the style they play, I also do not think they have the players and goaltending to be good yet. I prefer a more attacking style. Still, who is coaching this?

Who on the staff is responsible for coaching the defense? Are they doing a good enough job? Not sure.

In summary, the coaching staff is another place we need to make some improvements.

Bolded: I think they're already a top 10 unit. They bounce around 5-7th

 

[Bendium]

Bolded: I think they're already a top 10 unit. They bounce around 5-7th

They were hot for awhile when the only play was Tage blasting them in and it was working. Since then the opposition has taken that away and our PP has struggled, because they don't have a good plan other than feeding Tage. They are not really a top unit, but they should be.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I acknowledge that your ideas were long term, that is why I said I liked them and could get on board with some of them. I have been pretty adamant around here about not giving up large packages for guys that could walk in 2024 or 2025. I think it is too much of a gamble given the stigma of Buffalo and difficulty with signing UFAs. I don't know if I would necessarily trade a lot of the farm for your target players, but I can play devils advocate for both sides, so I think your logic is sound.

Reimer is under-rated in my opinion. He's been above average and fairly consistent throughout his career, yet he always seems to find himself moving on, replaced by some younger goalie who fizzles out. His teammates seem to really like him, and everything I have ever heard is that he is very professional. It makes you wonder why he hasn't stuck somewhere longer. He was who I was pushing for most last offseason on these boards. Without an agreement for a short extension, I don't think I would give up much for him currently though. He'd be a great add, but I really like the 2nd round of this 2023 draft.

Reimer is definitely underrated. I was on board with acquiring him last summer, so then the Sharks keep Hill and Kahkonen. But whatever. Not much you can do about that

 

[Chainshot]

They were hot for awhile when the only play was Tage blasting them in and it was working. Since then the opposition has taken that away and our PP has struggled, because they don't have a good plan other than feeding Tage. They are not really a top unit, but they should be.

The last two games, they've only had 1 opportunity. Over this rough stretch, they're 3 for 19 (just shy of 16%) and have given up 2 SHGA (1 an empty netter). The do need to devise a low play to compliment Tage's one-timer.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

The last two games, they've only had 1 opportunity. Over this rough stretch, they're 3 for 19 (just shy of 16%) and have given up 2 SHGA (1 an empty netter). The do need to devise a low play to compliment Tage's one-timer.

The difference between feeding Tage and feeding OV is that the Caps will completely ignore OV until they can’t. Whereas the Sabres want to feed Tage so teams shade to that, and the Sabres don’t take shots.

You and I could defend the Sabres PP because we know nobody else on PP1 is gonna try to score

 

[Chainshot]

The difference between feeding Tage and feeding OV is that the Caps will completely ignore OV until they can’t. Whereas the Sabres want to feed Tage so teams shade to that, and the Sabres don’t take shots.

You and I could defend the Sabres PP because we know nobody else on PP1 is gonna try to score

I disagree with that - they can still move the puck faster and move themselves as well to create lanes that will open Thompson for his one-timer. They have been trying different looks including flat out ignoring Thompson to try plays on the right side of their formation. They don't have a good net-front presence and their bumper is suspect.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I disagree with that - they can still move the puck faster and move themselves as well to create lanes that will open Thompson for his one-timer. They have been trying different looks including flat out ignoring Thompson to try plays on the right side of their formation. They don't have a good net-front presence and their bumper is suspect.

They’ve been trying to make movement, but they don’t shoot. It becomes irrelevant.

Make the PK worry about all 5 players, not just one. Even if the shots get blocked, that’s fine. Because now the opposition knows that anybody is gonna shoot

 

[Irie]

They were hot for awhile when the only play was Tage blasting them in and it was working. Since then the opposition has taken that away and our PP has struggled, because they don't have a good plan other than feeding Tage. They are not really a top unit, but they should be.

Watching the other top PP teams, it is hard to keep track of who is where. The players are cycling, everyone is in motion and positions are constantly changing. That is how a PP should function. Get the pk chasing.

Then you watch the Sabres. Everyone is standing still. The forward on the half wall and ppQB will change positions and sometimes there will be a drop pass as they skate by one another and that is their big trick. "will they drop it or keep it?"

Either way the penalty killers only ever have to shift 8 to 10 feet and they are still in position and the cross ice passing lanes are still sealed off.

They make it way too easy for other teams.

 

[sabremike]

I disagree with that - they can still move the puck faster and move themselves as well to create lanes that will open Thompson for his one-timer. They have been trying different looks including flat out ignoring Thompson to try plays on the right side of their formation. They don't have a good net-front presence and their bumper is suspect.

But they aren't moving, they are essentially stationary and the only moves they make are totally useless ones at the perimeter or going towards the board (which is the worst thing you can possibly do on a PP short of fumbling a puck at the blue line). The only way such a poorly designed power play works is entirely by accident.

 

[Chainshot]

But they aren't moving, they are essentially stationary and the only moves they make are totally useless ones at the perimeter or going towards the board (which is the worst thing you can possibly do on a PP short of fumbling a puck at the blue line). The only way such a poorly designed power play works is entirely by accident.

That's my point - fundamentals are not there right now and that's on the players. I doubt the coaches are saying "hey, stay still" to PP1.

 

[Ace]

That's my point - fundamentals are not there right now and that's on the players. I doubt the coaches are saying "hey, stay still" to PP1.

I’d honestly take that bet.

From the coaches who bring you the everlasting drop pass…

 

[sabremike]

That's my point - fundamentals are not there right now and that's on the players. I doubt the coaches are saying "hey, stay still" to PP1.

How could paid pros in the best league on Earth lack the fundamentals of a decent high school player? I just can't understand that because if they lacked basic fundamentals that bad they'd be playing for the Danbury Hat Tricks and not the NHL. Bad coaching seems a much more plausible answer IMO.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

I’d honestly take that bet.

From the coaches who bring you the everlasting drop pass…

Every and I mean EVERY team in the league does the pp drop pass

 

[K8fool]

How could paid pros in the best league on Earth lack the fundamentals of a decent high school player? I just can't understand that because if they lacked basic fundamentals that bad they'd be playing for the Danbury Hat Tricks and not the NHL. Bad coaching seems a much more plausible answer IMO.

Beware Verbal vomit but chunky as somebody here knows and has Time to break down the 3 areas , the young sabres are trying learn on the fly against veterans w high accrued special teams minute, as special teams are essentially a diff sport like OT , as it influenced many of our 23 L results..

It must be some ' failure to communicate'.on both players coaches.

More likely information overload fixed out of season but maybe tweaked by both to think less and move feet more..

If you're saying this is the best talent accumulated in the world..

Seeing small adjustments from the killing. Polygon, amoeba structure creating a dog moving it's head sideways, complete stoppages from PP1.. doubt it's coaching other than than overcomplicating a split second decision... Ideally like the lame option drop pass, decisions are NOT made ... they are made for you based on the movement high and low, aggressive tendencies and the defensive risks taken.. to create whatever options are open.. if they or we cheat to Thompson, one timing it. The four ather players need to move and try to bring two toward him supposedly leaving to very favorable option if ALL are moving..


I agree w what people say and see but implementation during the season seems to be easily adjusted to by veteran special teams .. we obviously need see the fakes and out anticipate a PRO guy w 1000 kills under his belt and not looked like we just got schooled by those guys with kids that have ten percent of the experience.. They are learning the possible options as quickly as the coaches can think of how to help the player without complicating his Brain which I think looks like stoppages, flummoxed. The only way to judge.. 25 yr old ( like 23) TT , 22 Yr old Dahlin, 21 Cozens, etc 20 yr , power..plus tuch and skinner ( not consistent pp guys til now). Would be reps. .. zone entry yes/no possession , feet moving without puck ( Thompson is guilty ) etc etc and track movement and variety of scorers etc.


I bet if you broke it down Thompson may be a problem ( until off season) and needs to watch ovechkin mess w D , but I think somebody better at drawing D WITHOUT the puck..Tuch and Skinner would need dissection as to skating tracks I think we have better shos than Pittsburg or Tampa and Edmonton Would be my studying and how the Caps at their best during their cup run moving around and using Ovi leathal shot as a template to DO BETTER THAN and find Weaknesses in all Four and ours that can be improved upon under pressure.. PK , PP and GoalT are veteran conservation of movement that has the penguins and EDM in the playoffs..

Can this improve each time they have off to practice without overloading certain brains , or is it coaching. Whoever truly takes on this challenge will certainly help the team w very few who understand to nuance aa it's a totally different game than 5 on 5 , like a different mechanical sport that Donny and crew need to implement their own free wheeling,free your mind always switching sides etc that will destroy all scouting of TENDENCIES..
PK is similar but prob easier to be great along traditional movement and tweak , LIKE DG ,has already become agressive helping the other team to worry etc..
These 3 phases take Time as they are a structure we have no idea how loose option oriented or plays they run..Most only notice if it blows.. Teams like Colorado have used favorable calls to take and keep momentum after being caved 5 on5..
Just like Donny adding defensive responsibilities and Quinn and kids learning to cover without worrying about mistakes ( would be fascinating to break down similarities in Toronto to the Canes to LA to even the Ducks exploitation ) it takes time to keep them scoring and breaking quickly to them reaction naturally to Play D just as fast ( theur brains just react as he adds each and still remember first to finish checks and buy time..
Rasmus Dahlin Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com



I was awestruck by the Age and then the change in Plus minus...


This prob needs to be deleted aside from the idea of first paragraph.. separate games in 15 game sections w , the 5 o5 , pk, pp1 and 2 , goaltending by Shot map based on each teams counter of our style... To see trends , isolate issues ,see improvement or...etc

 

[Chainshot]

Watching the other top PP teams, it is hard to keep track of who is where. The players are cycling, everyone is in motion and positions are constantly changing. That is how a PP should function. Get the pk chasing.

Then you watch the Sabres. Everyone is standing still. The forward on the half wall and ppQB will change positions and sometimes there will be a drop pass as they skate by one another and that is their big trick. "will they drop it or keep it?"

Either way the penalty killers only ever have to shift 8 to 10 feet and they are still in position and the cross ice passing lanes are still sealed off.

They make it way too easy for other teams.

They used to run a particular form of off-puck movement in the center lane/high slot that Tuch in particular was doing that has gone missing for some time. He would curl back to close to the blueline and then move toward the net, mirroring the move of the high hub on the right side (not usually Dahlin, he would be delivering from just a bit behind where Tuch would make his pivot, sending the puck to the right). Tuch has stopped doing it and is now mostly playing the net front instead while Skinner remains mostly as the bumper. It opened options - pass for a forehand one-timer from the middle of the diamond, crashing the net as the puck arrives so he's looking at where the rebound is set to go, and also being a mobile pick if they want to try cross-seam back to Thompson. They ran that a bit with Okposo too in settled offensive situations.

Oh, and that's another thing I really don't like about their PP: they do not attack the net. Frequently they will have numerical advantage entering the zone, either 4-on-3 or 3-on-2 and the puck carrier without fail pulls up and waits to settle the offense. No one takes the puck and themselves hard to the net. No one. For a team that scores on the rush, they do not try any sort of rush scoring when up a man. Not that it will work, but it coincides with how they play ES offensive play in the attacking zone as well - pull up, curl away from the center lane, often with their back to the rest of the ice and continue to pivot until they are now facing the blueline. They go to their defense from there, but there is no assurance that anyone at all is going to the net. Time after time, we see players in the center lane, in the "home plate" area skate out of there or pass out of their to a lower percentage shooting position with regularity. They have some exceptions - Tuch will sometimes barrel through, Thompson will try to toe drag, Skinner does his mohawk to try adding deception to where he's trying to go when he often will then turn back toward the net to shoot. Hinostroza was the poster boy for this, but Mittelstadt, Krebs, Peterka slumping, Quinn, and sometimes Cozens all do it more than they try to go hard to the net.



Anyway... insomnia sucks.

 

[elchud]

Looks like Reinbacher could very well be the 1st D picked, somewhere between 7 and 10. We're gonna miss out on that fella. 11 to 15 seems to high for Simashev. If we are 16 to 21, that seems about right.

Having said all that, let's lock down the top-6 and trade the 1st for Crouse. Yeah! Throw in Mitts too.
Matt Roy for our 2nd plus Olofsson half retained.
Marcus Bjork for the Vegas 2nd.
Joker for whatever pick we can get.

Skinner - TT - Tuch
Crouse - Cozens - Quinn
Peterka - Krebs - *Brown (maybe Savoie)
Girgensons - **Acciari (maybe Jost) - Okposo
Asplund

Sammy - Dahlin
Power - Roy
***Bryson/RyJo - Bjork
Lybushkin

****Lankinen/Comrie
UPL

*For 3RW, Connor Brown could be had for a 1 or 2 year deal, which is plenty term for any wing. Yes he is coming off a serious injury. Let him play for the next contract, and if it isn't working, call up Savoie 40 games in and he stays in Buffalo for good.

**Acciari on a 2 year deal. Move on from Jost, add someone who can score 15 goals, hit, and win faceoffs. Or...don't move on from Jost. Whatever.

***Don't like Bryson but he has zero trade value. Him and Johnson fight it out for the 3LHD.

****Don't like Comrie. He was worth a shot at the cost but I'm not seeing it with him. Sign Lankinen and have those two battle for one of the goalie spots, UPL gets the other.

So for the draft, it will be pretty boring. But we make the roster a hell of a lot better.
1st - traded for Crouse
2nd - Strbak
2nd - traded for Roy
2nd - traded for Bjork
Joker is worth something, a 2nd or a 3rd.

 

[DustyZ]

Moving forward I mean..

Especially when it comes to 22 year old goalies.

I don't see the drought ending anytime soon otherwise.

There are goalies out there Kevin!

 

[Irie]

They used to run a particular form of off-puck movement in the center lane/high slot that Tuch in particular was doing that has gone missing for some time. He would curl back to close to the blueline and then move toward the net, mirroring the move of the high hub on the right side (not usually Dahlin, he would be delivering from just a bit behind where Tuch would make his pivot, sending the puck to the right). Tuch has stopped doing it and is now mostly playing the net front instead while Skinner remains mostly as the bumper. It opened options - pass for a forehand one-timer from the middle of the diamond, crashing the net as the puck arrives so he's looking at where the rebound is set to go, and also being a mobile pick if they want to try cross-seam back to Thompson. They ran that a bit with Okposo too in settled offensive situations.

Oh, and that's another thing I really don't like about their PP: they do not attack the net. Frequently they will have numerical advantage entering the zone, either 4-on-3 or 3-on-2 and the puck carrier without fail pulls up and waits to settle the offense. No one takes the puck and themselves hard to the net. No one. For a team that scores on the rush, they do not try any sort of rush scoring when up a man. Not that it will work, but it coincides with how they play ES offensive play in the attacking zone as well - pull up, curl away from the center lane, often with their back to the rest of the ice and continue to pivot until they are now facing the blueline. They go to their defense from there, but there is no assurance that anyone at all is going to the net. Time after time, we see players in the center lane, in the "home plate" area skate out of there or pass out of their to a lower percentage shooting position with regularity. They have some exceptions - Tuch will sometimes barrel through, Thompson will try to toe drag, Skinner does his mohawk to try adding deception to where he's trying to go when he often will then turn back toward the net to shoot. Hinostroza was the poster boy for this, but Mittelstadt, Krebs, Peterka slumping, Quinn, and sometimes Cozens all do it more than they try to go hard to the net.



Anyway... insomnia sucks.

I think that several of them actually do try to drive the net, but barely make it past the blueline before the puck is pokechecked off their sticks.

Thompson tries to take the puck to the net through 2 or 3 defenders multiple times per game and it never works. He is successful at stick handling through multiple D when he gets the puck on a broken play or when he receives a pass and is already in tight, so the D is not in an ideal position or is trying to recover. When they are in good position, they are expecting him to try to walk through them and it is like taking candy from a baby as they pick his pocket.

Tuch, Cozens and Peterka are the only players on the team with the foot speed to take the puck wide and walk defenders. Peterka is shell-shocked currently from getting smacked around by guys that outweigh him by 40 or 50 lbs, and he seems to be shying away from potential contact, which he was not doing earlier in the season.

Cozens only tries if he he sees a clear lane, and I think his reads are pretty good for a young player. Tuch does try and sometimes gets wide and is successful.

The rest of the team can't skate around NHL defenders, so they all pull up.

What I would like to see is more recognition of the situation and taking advantage of the open space. If they are alone, instead of directly taking the blueline, use the space, go wide before the zone, slow the play down and spread the D while still in the neutral zone, while you wait for reinforcements. It is always going to be situational, obviously, but taking the zone and pulling up just inside the blueline just to avoid the offside, but then finding yourself alone hemmed in in that small space at the point leaves no options.

 

[jmelm]

Not sure why this is its own thread.

At some point, players need to get experience, and you can only do that by getting experience.

 

[DustyZ]

Not sure why this is its own thread.

At some point, players need to get experience, and you can only do that by getting experience.

Maybe because it's a compelling argument to be had?

Our current path seems to be relying on some alternative reality.

How often do 22 year old goalies take you to the playoffs?

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Not sure why this is its own thread.

At some point, players need to get experience, and you can only do that by getting experience.

Same as any other job market.

I still chuckle darkly at the person who created a particular programming language 4 years prior, who replied to a posting where they were looking for someone with 10 years experience in that language.