Roster thread: Get To Work (2022-2023 Season)

[Bendium]

Buffalo needs some forwards to kill penalties. They also need some defensemen that can kill penalties. And they need an assistant coach who's better at special teams.

They're REALLY bad at PKing.

The bolded is something I was planning to look at this week. I do not know exactly how the responsibilities are split among the coaching staff, but this offseason will be a big one for me to see wether Granato has it in him to become more than he is right now.

This team has all the PP skill you would ever need to be a top 10 unit, really top 5. Yet it struggles with a lack of creativity and seems to only have a couple plays in its book. Granato needs to go out and get a really good PP coach for his staff.

The PK is different. While I don't love the style they play, I also do not think they have the players and goaltending to be good yet. I prefer a more attacking style. Still, who is coaching this?

Who on the staff is responsible for coaching the defense? Are they doing a good enough job? Not sure.

In summary, the coaching staff is another place we need to make some improvements.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Buffalo needs some forwards to kill penalties. They also need some defensemen that can kill penalties. And they need an assistant coach who's better at special teams.

They're REALLY bad at PKing.

I really think it comes down to whatever system they are using. The Sharks are 2nd in PK%, and Ottawa is top 10 in PK% and they aren't great teams.

The Sharks outside of a handful of players are pretty devoid of talent, and have poor goaltending yet they can lock it down on the PK. Hell their leader in icetime on the PK is Vlasic, and we all know what a train wreck he's been for the past few years. The Sharks PK has been below 80% since 14-15. supposedly when Warsofsky came in he didn't change much on their PK and how they run it due to how successful it's been. They have new guys come into the pK every year and never miss a beat.

An article I read Couture said on their PK none of their guys are afraid to block shots, and their coaches prep them before each game for each teams tendencies to prepare them. Have to wonder, are our coaches doing that? Are our coaches making sure the right personnel is out there? Are they making sure these guys are thinking about preventing a goal BEFORE they start thinking about trying to counter for a shorthanded one?

Copy whatever DeBoer does because it seems like every team he coaches has a good to great PK. Almost always over 80% except for Vegas last season when they were missing half their roster, and they were still better than Buffalo this year.

 

[Zman5778]

Detroit got criticized on this board for bringing on a bunch of middle six vets with their cap space. (totally blocking thier prospects I am sure)

Totally different scenario, and you know it. Buffalo is OVERSTOCKED with forward prospects. Detroit is rather bare as regards forward prospects. They've got Kasper, Soderblom and then a whole bag of "meh". Detroit's organizational strength is depth on defense.....but even still, it's Edvinsson and then a whole lot of 2nd/3rd pair types.

Two completely different organizational philosophies.

 

[Chainshot]

cross posted
32 Thoughts today EF saying Kevin Adams listens to his veterans, they suggested keeping 3 goalies this season, and if you can bring someone in to help the room you might be looking to do that, per a couple sources.

Also cross posting - which episode and what was the time stamp? I started that one yesterday and would love to jump to that part to hear the context of what was said.

 

[BFLO]

Good post. I am open to the discussion if we get to the offseason. The problem I see is how long of a contract? What I like about Ekholm is specifically the 3 years after this. I think 3 years is perfect to bridge us to finding another long term top 4, and his money comes off the books as a Power bridge ends and you use the cap room for Power 8 years then. I also like the leadership Ekholm brings. He would be a good on ice coach for these young guys.

Jensen is the same age as Ekholm. So ideally we'd sign him to something like 3 x $4m avv.

 

[Bendium]

Totally different scenario, and you know it. Buffalo is OVERSTOCKED with forward prospects. Detroit is rather bare as regards forward prospects. They've got Kasper, Soderblom and then a whole bag of "meh". Detroit's organizational strength is depth on defense.....but even still, it's Edvinsson and then a whole lot of 2nd/3rd pair types.

Two completely different organizational philosophies.

We are very overstocked with smallish forward prospects that are unlikely to do anything about what we are missing in our middle six. Detroit recognized you need a more balanced team and went out and got what it needed. We doubled down on small ball.

They are two different philosophies, and I am not happy with ours. We are going to have to build a better middle six and at is going to take trades or UFA's to do it because the prospects coming are the wrong type. Thats just how I see it. You want to get caved even more? Be patient and add, Rosen, Savoie, and Ostlund to our middle six.

 

[Zman5778]

We are very overstocked with smallish forward prospects that are unlikely to do anything about what we are missing in our middle six. Detroit recognized you need a more balanced team and went out and got what it needed. We doubled down on small ball.

They are two different philosophies, and I am not happy with ours. We are going to have to build a better middle six and at is going to take trades or UFA's to do it because the prospects coming are the wrong type. Thats just how I see it. You want to get caved even more? Be patient and add, Rosen, Savoie, and Ostlund to our middle six.

I think that KA used this year to see who could fit into a long-term bottom 6 and what needs to be added. Furthering that.....I think he has an idea about what's needed now. Krebs should be able to be a long-term 3C. Olofsson ain't bottom 6 stuff. Mitts is a bit more of a question mark. Okposo has maybe 1 year left in his legs, tops. We don't have a long-term 4C. Jost is probably best as a winger or 13th guy on a good team.

Now that KA has identified the holes......let's see if he fills them this offseason.

 

[BFLO]

Buffalo needs some forwards to kill penalties. They also need some defensemen that can kill penalties. And they need an assistant coach who's better at special teams.

They're REALLY bad at PKing.

On the defensive side.

Pick up Soucy/Graves/Gavrikov for LD and Jensen at RD.

Boom. Pk drastically improved. (as well as 5v5)

 

[Ace]

I think that KA used this year to see who could fit into a long-term bottom 6 and what needs to be added. Furthering that.....I think he has an idea about what's needed now. Krebs should be able to be a long-term 3C. Olofsson ain't bottom 6 stuff. Mitts is a bit more of a question mark. Okposo has maybe 1 year left in his legs, tops. We don't have a long-term 4C. Jost is probably best as a winger or 13th guy on a good team.

Now that KA has identified the holes......let's see if he fills them this offseason.

So he took a year to end up where almost everyone else already f***ing was.

Krebs in
Olofsson out
Mitts until he costs anything then gtfu

cool. Great year. Learned so much

 

[Zman5778]

So he took a year to end up where almost everyone else already f***ing was.

Krebs in
Olofsson out
Mitts until he costs anything then gtfu

cool. Great year. Learned so much

There was rather significant doubt where/if Krebs and Mitts would fit long-term, and if either would amount to anything in the NHL.....and what position they'd play if they did show to be viable. We fans speculated what you say.....but KA/DG didn't KNOW. Hell, no one KNEW what the outcome would be.

 

[debaser66]

I'm just really tired of people that have "takes" and essentially just look for facts/stats that support their view.
I guess that's what you get when you measure success in social media response.

maybe we should change the name according to its brain function: monkey media

 

[TehDoak]

I think that KA used this year to see who could fit into a long-term bottom 6 and what needs to be added. Furthering that.....I think he has an idea about what's needed now. Krebs should be able to be a long-term 3C. Olofsson ain't bottom 6 stuff. Mitts is a bit more of a question mark. Okposo has maybe 1 year left in his legs, tops. We don't have a long-term 4C. Jost is probably best as a winger or 13th guy on a good team.

Now that KA has identified the holes......let's see if he fills them this offseason.

The idea that any GM needs a full season evaluation is laughable. The needs now are the same as they were last summer.

 

[Chainshot]

The idea that any GM needs a full season evaluation is laughable. The needs now are the same as they were last summer.

A season of evaluation does smack as reminiscent of Botterill's first year(s) on the job.

 

[Gabrielor]

A season of evaluation does smack as reminiscent of Botterill's first year(s) on the job.

His eval was unstable as hell though.

"We're not the close, trade ROR"

"Eh, we're close again. Add Skinner"

"Need top 6 / top 4? Best I can do is mid picks for plugs."

"We need RD? Sure. Here's a boatload for Montour. I also I got Jokiharju. Also Also, here's Miller. Too many now? Eh, it's a situation where we can never have too many"

"My rookie coach didn't work out? Lets hire a soccer coach instead!"

 

[Chainshot]

His eval was unstable as hell though.

"We're not the close, trade ROR"

"Eh, we're close again. Add Skinner"

"Need top 6 / top 4? Best I can do is mid picks for plugs."

"We need RD? Sure. Here's a boatload for Montour. I also I got Jokiharju. Also Also, here's Miller. Not many now? Eh, it's a situation where we can never have too many"

"My rookie coach didn't work out? Lets hire a soccer coach instead!"

True. He remains my least favorite GM in a sea of really terrible GM's.

The conversation about him needing to evaluate though reminds me of the convo around Botts time at the helm. Just thinking about rehashing that and Tiny Tim and unfettered Regier makes me twitch.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Something I dug up while researching this morning-

The top 10 teams by points in the NHL ice a total of 7 players that are 22 or younger - Leafs ice 0, Boston 0, Devils 1, TBL 0, VGK 0, Stars 1, Jets 0, Kings 1, Hurricanes 2, Rangers 2.

The Sabres alone ice 7. (Power, Quinn, Peterka, Cozens, Samuelsson, Krebs, Dahlin).

That's a lot of growing pains that we're enduring this year.

 

[Gabrielor]

True. He remains my least favorite GM in a sea of really terrible GM's.

The conversation about him needing to evaluate though reminds me of the convo around Botts time at the helm. Just thinking about rehashing that and Tiny Tim and unfettered Regier makes me twitch.

I'm happy if antsy with Adams.

He did the easy part (Strip)

He succeeded at one of the hard parts (identify core, lock up)

Now comes growth, for which I'm impatience but understand...

..and surrounding the core with talent/vets, for which as @TehDoak has alluded to, he hasn't moved more than a few centimeters.

Something I dug up while researching this morning-

The top 10 teams by points in the NHL ice a total of 7 players that are 22 or younger - Leafs ice 0, Boston 0, Devils 1, TBL 0, VGK 0, Stars 1, Jets 0, Kings 1, Hurricanes 2, Rangers 2.

The Sabres alone ice 7. (Power, Quinn, Peterka, Cozens, Samuelsson, Krebs, Dahlin).

That's a lot of growing pains that we're enduring this year.

That's also the bulk of our top talent. (Minus Thompson, Tuch, resurging Skinner).

The rest are guys that people defend (I defend Olof, others defend Mitts/Bryson/Joker), but none seem like long term guys. Could've easily brought in upgrades, but my one beef with Adams is that 'let youth grow' applies to everyone on the roster under like 27 years old.

 

[Ehran]

Something I dug up while researching this morning-

The top 10 teams by points in the NHL ice a total of 7 players that are 22 or younger - Leafs ice 0, Boston 0, Devils 1, TBL 0, VGK 0, Stars 1, Jets 0, Kings 1, Hurricanes 2, Rangers 2.

The Sabres alone ice 7. (Power, Quinn, Peterka, Cozens, Samuelsson, Krebs, Dahlin).

That's a lot of growing pains that we're enduring this year.

Top teams have decent flows of prospects flowing into their system and don't need to have "growing pains" in the National League. Or they have GMs that evaluate NHL level skills and continually bring in players as needs arise.

I'm starting to sour on the idea of developing players at the NHL level, TBH. Or at least 1/3 of the roster at the same time. But.... to be fair this is as much of a problem caused by previous GMs as it is the current one. There hasn't been an influx of NHL level developed players coming out of Rochester in way too many years. Not sure what the answer is.

This team does need to develop its defensive game at some point, however. We're still seeing the same issues as we did last year and all this season. When does the team learn to defend? Because if we need to take another year for the team to learn to do that, it's another year outside the playoffs.

EDIT: If the answer is that the coaches say "it's okay if you make mistakes defending as long you are trying" that is fine. But there has to be some consequences for the continual mistakes and lack of effort, at some point.

 

[RefsIdeas]

Top teams have decent flows of prospects flowing into their system and don't need to have "growing pains" in the National League. Or they have GMs that evaluate NHL level skills and continually bring in players as needs arise.

I'm starting to sour on the idea of developing players at the NHL level, TBH. Or at least 1/3 of the roster at the same time. But.... to be fair this is as much of a problem caused by previous GMs as it is the current one. There hasn't been an influx of NHL level developed players coming out of Rochester in way too many years. Not sure what the answer is.

This team does need to develop its defensive game at some point, however. We're still seeing the same issues as we did last year and all this season. When does the team learn to defend? Because if we need to take another year for the team to learn to do that, it's another year outside the playoffs.

EDIT: If the answer is that the coaches say "it's okay if you make mistakes defending as long you are trying" that is fine. But there has to be some consequences for the continual mistakes and lack of effort, at some point.

Yep that is true. It's just that we're experiencing a great deal of growing pains all at once - and there just seems to be more youth on the horizon.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

On the defensive side.

Pick up Soucy/Graves/Gavrikov for LD and Jensen at RD.

Boom. Pk drastically improved. (as well as 5v5)

I'd be down for Graves; do we think he'll leave NJ? Jensen too, although I wouldn't like to see the 4 year contract he'll command.

 

[Willgamesh]

How does wanting to bring in people good in the room contradict that point?

Why improve something that is good over the other glaring issues?

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Also cross posting - which episode and what was the time stamp? I started that one yesterday and would love to jump to that part to hear the context of what was said.

It's over in the trade thread now. Will no long CP this thread is getting toxic.

 

[WiHockeyGuy]

Why improve something that is good over the other glaring issues?

This presumes that a player that is good in the room can't also improve the team.

 

[Zman5778]

Top teams have decent flows of prospects flowing into their system and don't need to have "growing pains" in the National League. Or they have GMs that evaluate NHL level skills and continually bring in players as needs arise.

And right there lies the issue. We're not a top team. Not even close. We're trying to become a top team that does exactly what you describe.

Hence the growing pains.

 

[Bendium]

And right there lies the issue. We're not a top team. Not even close. We're trying to become a top team that does exactly what you describe.

Hence the growing pains.

We haven't been a top team in a dozens years. You won't get there on just drafting prospects and waiting. This waiting until we get better, before making moves to get better, is exactly why we do not get better. If your going to be a good team, start acting like a good team, which also means not fast tracking prospects! Also, not being afraid to trade picks or prospects to get better.

The NHL in not a development league. It is a league for NHL players, and NHL ready prospects. The Sabres continuously bring up prospects before they are really ready because they have needs and/or hopes to fill.

I do not want to see ANY of Rosen, Kulich, Savoie, Ostlund in the NHL next year. Move on from Aspland, Olofsson, Mitts, Okposo, Bryson, etc. Trade or sign better players to fill the holes in the roster, and don't worry about blocking prospects. Worry about supporting the current NHL ready core players you have. Then when prospects get good enough to force your hand, then there are lots of ways to make a spot for them if you need them, or trade for something you do need.

Can't keep doing the same thing and patiently waiting for a different result.