Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[SI]

Honestly it’s better than 50/50 that Dubas is here in some role if not just outright hired as GM, Dubas has always spoken highly of Lou and Lou has also been very supportive in comments on Dubas. I’d be willing to keep open mind, it didn’t work but honestly I thought Dubas did good job at deadline addressing Leafs weaknesses.

I agree, but it may be that Kyle might have his pick in a season or two

 

[SI]

The Cap would need to go and the Isles would have to send Palmieri and Bailey's contract out, but this is an exciting line up -

A top 9 of -
Lee - Horvat - Marner
Holmstrom - Barzal - Nelson
Parise - Pageau - Wahlstrom
And PP 1 of -
Nelson
Barzal - Horvat - Marner
Ghost
PP 2 of -
Lee
Wahlstrom - Pageau - Parise
Pulock

Top 6 D -
Pelech - Pulock
Romanov - Mayfield (or Severson)
Ghost - Schenn
x- Aho​

 

[PK Cronin]

That's not a good deal for the Islanders...

Marner is a great player and someone who would be an excellent addition to the top 3, but not at the expense of Barzal and Pulock. Liljegren sucks.

I'd consider Marner for Bailey and Dobson. Isles would have to add a QB for the PP... possibly Ghost or Severson? The Cap would need to go up this season for the Isles to consider a Marner trade


WTF!

Are you on crack?

MARNER>>>>> NYLANDER.
Marner plays in all situations and is not only the stronger player but the more productive one. And The Isles would have Marner for 2 more seasons versus an impending UFA.

Can't seem to let this one go - and this is a playoff game

I remember watching that when it happened, absolutely insane.

 

[saintunspecified]

Saw this proposed by a Leafs fan on Twitter. I think I'd make this trade if Marner could be extended:

To NYI: - Mitch Marner - Timothy Liljegren
To TOR: - Mat Barzal - Ryan Pulock

Marner is the best player in that deal, and I'd take the risk having him with 2 years left.

Precisely the sort of player that I think would do better away from all the pressure of his home town.

Leafs only make that deal if Marner is really unhappy. He's better than Barzal in every situation, and he - unlike Barzal - is already a winger, as opposed to Barzal learning the wing. Otoh, if Barzal were in Toronto, one imagines Barzal would become the 2nd line C with JT on his wing.

 

[doublechili]

Saw this proposed by a Leafs fan on Twitter. I think I'd make this trade if Marner could be extended:

To NYI: - Mitch Marner - Timothy Liljegren
To TOR: - Mat Barzal - Ryan Pulock

I may have seen some of his bad moments, but from my viewings of Liljegren in the playoffs I'd say "no" to that specific deal. He's okay, but he's not an offensive stud, he's not a defensive stud, and he's not big or physical. If the Isles were to trade both Barzal and Pulock, I'd want a better net result than to improve the O while (significantly) weakening the D.

 

[SI]

I may have seen some of his bad moments, but from my viewings of Liljegren in the playoffs I'd say "no" to that specific deal. He's okay, but he's not an offensive stud, he's not a defensive stud, and he's not big or physical. If the Isles were to trade both Barzal and Pulock, I'd want a better net result than to improve the O while (significantly) weakening the D.

What if it were a Dobson and Palmieri for Marner?
Then sign Ghost.

 

[Big L]

he needed to pass that
I’m pretty sure he was just upset that his order for a venti, half caf, soy latte with no foam was screwed up at the Starbucks drive through.

Guaranteed that is not Lous order.

Honestly it’s better than 50/50 that Dubas is here in some role if not just outright hired as GM, Dubas has always spoken highly of Lou and Lou has also been very supportive in comments on Dubas. I’d be willing to keep open mind, it didn’t work but honestly I thought Dubas did good job at deadline addressing Leafs weaknesses.

I also thought he did a good job this past deadline.

I could tolerate Dumass er Dubas if it’s in a minor personnel role.

 

[doublechili]

What if it were a Dobson and Palmieri for Marner?
Then sign Ghost.

IDK, I'd be very wary of dealing Dobson. Way too many teams have been burned getting impatient and trading young D while they're going through growing pains. It's up to the brass that sees him in more depth to analyze things, but from my perspective I see a 6'4" kid with great skating and with great skills. Also:

Dobson is 23, is locked up at $4M for the next 2 years, and then is an RFA;
Marner is 26, is locked up at $11M for the next 2 years, and then is a UFA.

And Ghost is looking better with CAR than I thought he was, but I also think that while he's fine on the PP, I'm not sure that he's a difference maker.

 

[doublechili]

From the looks of that photo, I'll bet the conversation started with Dubas saying, "Bless me Father for I have sinned...."

 

[Duanesutter12]

Gonna be a lot of deleted or edited posts around here if that happens! Myself included and I’d be for it.

I get the Dubas hate but I honestly wouldn't mind having him. He showed growth. Yes he got bent over on the Matthews and Marner deals but it's a lot easier to say he should've played hardball than to actually follow through on it. I don't know that any other GM confronted with the prospect of losing two of the game's youngest stars right at the peak of a cup run would've faired any better. The only truly bad deal he made was Tavares- it was a luxury they didn't need. He did a pretty good job of rounding out that team considering he had very little resources to do so and frankly speaking that's a skill set that would be valuable on Long Island.

 

[SI]

I get the Dubas hate but I honestly wouldn't mind having him. He showed growth. Yes he got bent over on the Matthews and Marner deals but it's a lot easier to say he should've played hardball than to actually follow through on it. I don't know that any other GM confronted with the prospect of losing two of the game's youngest stars right at the peak of a cup run would've faired any better. The only truly bad deal he made was Tavares- it was a luxury they didn't need. He did a pretty good job of rounding out that team considering he had very little resources to do so and frankly speaking that's a skill set that would be valuable on Long Island.

It was a mistake to go for JT- I think adding JT also didn’t inspire any of the young guns to take a discount.

If he’d stayed course and upgraded D - I think they see a very different 5 years. Kadri remaining as the 2C on a very economical deal… not giving away a 1st to jettison Marleau and the patchwork he’s had to do on the blue line bottom 6 and at Goaltending since.

 

[MJF]

Honestly it’s better than 50/50 that Dubas is here in some role if not just outright hired as GM,

Where do you get this from? A vibe? Dippin Dots guy?

That's not a good deal for the Islanders...

Marner is a great player and someone who would be an excellent addition to the top 3, but not at the expense of Barzal and Pulock. Liljegren sucks.

I'd consider Marner for Bailey and Dobson. Isles would have to add a QB for the PP... possibly Ghost or Severson? The Cap would need to go up this season for the Isles to consider a Marner trade


WTF!

Are you on crack?

MARNER>>>>> NYLANDER.
Marner plays in all situations and is not only the stronger player but the more productive one. And The Isles would have Marner for 2 more seasons versus an impending UFA.

Can't seem to let this one go - and this is a playoff game

Marner is soft. Prone to streaks. Plus the contracts are like night and day. Nylander makes a ton less than Marner.

This isn’t Fantasy Hockey bruh.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

It was a mistake to go for JT- I think adding JT also didn’t inspire any of the young guns to take a discount.

If he’d stayed course and upgraded D - I think they see a very different 5 years. Kadri remaining as the 2C on a very economical deal… not giving away a 1st to jettison Marleau and the patchwork he’s had to do on the blue line bottom 6 and at Goaltending since.

Only thing with JT was they probably expected to win two or three years ago and didn’t think they’d be in year five and finally win playoff series, they probably expected to have a cup when their cap situation exploded and nobody in TO would have cared.

Where do you get this from? A vibe? Dippin Dots guy?


Marner is soft. Prone to streaks. Plus the contracts are like night and day. Nylander makes a ton less than Marner.

This isn’t Fantasy Hockey bruh.

I still say Marner is better player, does everything like PK. He would be great get for someone to get him out of TO and just let him play. His contract is tough pill for anyone though, I think Hawks would be interesting spot for him to have him pair up with Bedard. I personally believe they trade Matthews though, just a gut feeling of mine at the draft but we will see.

 

[MJF]

Only thing with JT was they probably expected to win two or three years ago and didn’t think they’d be in year five and finally win playoff series, they probably expected to have a cup when their cap situation exploded and nobody in TO would have cared.


I still say Marner is better player, does everything like PK. He would be great get for someone to get him out of TO and just let him play. His contract is tough pill for anyone though, I think Hawks would be interesting spot for him to have him pair up with Bedard. I personally believe they trade Matthews though, just a gut feeling of mine at the draft but we will see.

He may be the better player but that contract makes him a non-starter on the Island. Nylander is no slouch. The guy can snipe, and he’s priced right. Marner’s contract is worse for us than Barzal’s.

 

[PK Cronin]

Only thing with JT was they probably expected to win two or three years ago and didn’t think they’d be in year five and finally win playoff series, they probably expected to have a cup when their cap situation exploded and nobody in TO would have cared.


I still say Marner is better player, does everything like PK. He would be great get for someone to get him out of TO and just let him play. His contract is tough pill for anyone though, I think Hawks would be interesting spot for him to have him pair up with Bedard. I personally believe they trade Matthews though, just a gut feeling of mine at the draft but we will see.

I also think Matthews will be the one that is traded, but who really knows. They all wanted to get paid top dollar and f***ed that franchise over so I'm not sure how many of them actually care about being there beyond the paycheck. Dubas let them all get their way and now they're all in jeopardy of being moved (except Tavares because nobody will want that contract and he's not waiving).

 

[SI]

Where do you get this from? A vibe? Dippin Dots guy?


Marner is soft. Prone to streaks. Plus the contracts are like night and day. Nylander makes a ton less than Marner.

This isn’t Fantasy Hockey bruh.

Marner is helluva a lot tougher than Nylander. Nylander is an impending UFA too and would require a new contract probably close to 9.

Streaks? Ok- MM WAY more consistent producer than Nylander. Marner all around the far more superior player.

 

[MJF]

Marner is helluva a lot tougher than Nylander. Nylander is an impending UFA too and would require a new contract probably close to 9.

Streaks? Ok- MM WAY more consistent producer than Nylander. Marner all around the far more superior player.

Marner’s already over $10M. Unless on his next contract he wants to give the Isles a discount for being around Matt Martin every day there’s no good ending for us there.

As far as toughness, not a chance Marner is tough at all. Saw him taking punches from Tkachuk after Game 5. Spoke volumes. J-G Pageau is tougher than Marner. More consistent producer than Nylander? When??? How??? Better all around player than Nylander? Maybe, however it doesn’t mean we can make him fit here. Nylander is the example of a player who has gotten better as his career went on. Nothing wrong with taking Nylander instead of Marner.

 

[Duanesutter12]

It was a mistake to go for JT- I think adding JT also didn’t inspire any of the young guns to take a discount.

If he’d stayed course and upgraded D - I think they see a very different 5 years. Kadri remaining as the 2C on a very economical deal… not giving away a 1st to jettison Marleau and the patchwork he’s had to do on the blue line bottom 6 and at Goaltending since.

Totally agree on JT! It was a luxury they didn't need. They could've used that money to really round out a well balanced team. Again, I can excuse giving friendly contracts to the other core 3 because of their youth but their problems definitely started with the unnecessary signing of JT.

The bigger question, and it always pains me to bring it up because of the JT sensitivity around here, but do we win a cup if JT had re-signed? My answer is YES!

 

[IslesNorway]

You need calculator.

Bailey’s contract will be gone next season and hopefully this off-season. There won’t be any Bjorkstrand deals once the cap begins to rise.

3-4m is possibly for 2023-2024 season, then another possible jump of 5-6 in 2024-2025. The Cap by the time Sorokin’s extension kicks in could be as low as 88 and as high as 92.

The two most likeliest candidates to see a long term extension 1 season before UFA will be Matthews and Sorokin.

I do not need a calculator . You do. Bailey's contract and Sorokin's expire a year from now. Bailey's money will go to Sorokin. It is absolutely pointless to think of any major upgrade to the roster before Bailey is gone, but he will be very hard to move. But if theymanage to do so without taking on salary (dream on) and spend the money, there will be little left for Sorokin.

It is also no point in assuming the cap will rise until we know for sure if it will - or not. No GM can sign players based on assumed rise in cap.What the cap is a year or two from now matters little. If this team is looking to improve considerably they need much more space than a few paltry millions. The Islanders are not a $4 million player, or even two, away from true contention.

The basic fact of the matter remains: 6 million cap space and five players to sign for the upcoming season. Even with Bailey off it'll be 11 million and six players to sign. Sure that is the blueprint for a resoundingly successful season coming up...

 

[SI]

Marner’s already over $10M. Unless on his next contract he wants to give the Isles a discount for being around Matt Martin every day there’s no good ending for us there.

As far as toughness, not a chance Marner is tough at all. Saw him taking punches from Tkachuk after Game 5. Spoke volumes. J-G Pageau is tougher than Marner. More consistent producer than Nylander? When??? How??? Better all around player than Nylander? Maybe, however it doesn’t mean we can make him fit here. Nylander is the example of a player who has gotten better as his career went on. Nothing wrong with taking Nylander instead of Marner.

Marner is not Pageau - not many are at his size, but Marner is tough - he gets in on the forecheck, backchecks, not afraid to cut into the middle of the ice, block shots- Nylander? Permineter player who will disappear when shit gets tough.

marner is superstar

 

[SI]

I do not need a calculator . You do. Bailey's contract and Sorokin's expire a year from now. Bailey's money will go to Sorokin. It is absolutely pointless to think of any major upgrade to the roster before Bailey is gone, but he will be very hard to move. But if the for manage to do so without taking on salary (dream on) and spend the money, there will be little left for Sorokin.

It is also no point in assuming the cap will rise until we know for sure if it will - or not. No GM can sign players based on assumed rise in cap.

The basic fact of the matter remains: 6 million cap space and five players to sign for the upcoming season. Even with Bailey off it'll be 11 million and six players to sign. Sure that is the blueprint for a resoundingly successful season coming up...

This is not true - GMs sign players before they hit free agency all time - Vancouver did it with Miller - the Leafs will do it with Matthews.

And as per the conversation - this goes back to do you give Sorokin an extension this off-season. YES they can.

Pageau and Palmieri do not need to be moved first - they don’t factor into it. Again it has been documented of a significant cap increase once the debt has been played off. The game is growing.

 

[MJF]

Marner is not Pageau - not many are at his size, but Marner is tough - he gets in on the forecheck, backchecks, not afraid to cut into the middle of the ice, block shots- Nylander? Permineter player who will disappear when shit gets tough.

marner is superstar

You’re joking about disappearing, right? Marner’s playoffs haven’t been any better than Matthews’ or Nylander’s

I’ll take Nylander’s last 3 years over Marner’s.

I think you’re having an analytics wet dream about Mitch Marner.

 

[SI90]

Don’t know if he’s refusing to sign but this is a guy you definitely explore acquiring

 

[IslesNorway]

This is not true - GMs sign players before they hit free agency all time - Vancouver did it with Miller - the Leafs will do it with Matthews.

And as per the conversation - this goes back to do you give Sorokin an extension this off-season. YES they can.

Pageau and Palmieri do not need to be moved first - they don’t factor into it. Again it has been documented of a significant cap increase once the debt has been played off. The game is growing.

Lou did it too. He had to trade Toews and retire Boychuck because of it. Smart business indeed.

 

[DavidBL]

Ducks fan in peace. Any updates on Mayfield, what he's asking for, does it look like he is resigned?