Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[The Real JT]

That's Lou's MO, for certain.

And even scarier is what someone else recently posted about what Lou will do if this team is 9th or 10th in the East when the trade deadline arrives.

Scary stuff for anyone worried about that 23 1st and the very few legitimate prospects this team actually has.

That makes perfect sense so I’ll say what needs to be said.

As a fan, I hope the Isles outperform expectations and are comfortably in a playoff spot at the TDL thus making a panic move less likely.

OTOH, if they’re a borderline team come TDL then I’d almost prefer them to be further away from the playoffs if only for the sole reason that Lou might think twice about mortgaging the future for a band aid fix.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Look back over their last 10 years. That Cup was a one-off. You should want better than that.

I know that teams can catch lightning in a bottle and win a championship. Personally, I’d rather have the Penguins’ success or the Lightning’s success and always be in the conversation for a Cup, rather than “Let’s just get in because then we can make some noise.”

Wait a second.

The Blues won a Cup, going from worst to first from January to July. Then had to deal with the ensuing cap concerns (losing Pietrangelo), but remained a playoff team. Then they finished 4th overall in the west last season and had the Avs looking clueless until Binnington was conveniently injured in a collision with, who else, Kadri.

They head into this season looking as solid and well-built as any team outside of Colorado, doing so despite not once having a top 10 pick since grabbing Pietrangelo in the Bailey draft, showing the world that you can retool yourself to sound competitiveness with solid drafting (at later junctures) and strong lateral moves.

But WE should want more?

We should want more because they're not one of the very, very few teams who have maitained a steady form of the ultimate success (BTW, I get what you're getting at, but why mention a Pittsburgh team that has exited the playoffs in the first or qualifying round 4 straight seasons, and by the 2nd round the year before, despite a gawd awful amount of topflight talent?)?

It's naturally true that both Tampa and Pittsburgh were rock bottom for a little while. Rock. Bottom. This earned them the opportunity to add Crosby, Malkin, and Lafleur as well as Stamkos, Hedman, and Vasilevsky, to name the key figures of their success.

I think there's little more we could want than to be the St. Louis Blues.

We already spent years being rock bottom.

We didn't get the Crosbys, Malkins, Stamkoses, and Hedmans to throw us into juggernaut mode.

Those were the years we could've seen this team be turned into what Pittsburgh became and Tampa still is.

That opportunity passed.

But the opportunity to be St. Louis... That's still very damn close.

 

[Mike C]

Wait a second.

The Blues won a Cup, going from worst to first from January to July. Then had to deal with the ensuing cap concerns (losing Pietrangelo), but remained a playoff team. Then they finished 4th overall in the west last season and had the Avs looking clueless until Binnington was conveniently injured in a collision with, who else, Kadri.

They head into this season looking as solid and well-built as any team outside of Colorado, doing so despite not once having a top 10 pick since grabbing Pietrangelo in the Bailey draft, showing the world that you can retool yourself to sound competitiveness with solid drafting (at later junctures) and strong lateral moves.

But WE should want more?

We should want more because they're not one of the very, very few teams who have maitained a steady form of the ultimate success (BTW, I get what you're getting at, but why mention a Pittsburgh team that has exited the playoffs in the first or qualifying round 4 straight seasons, and by the 2nd round the year before, despite a gawd awful amount of topflight talent?)?

It's naturally true that both Tampa and Pittsburgh were rock bottom for a little while. Rock. Bottom. This earned them the opportunity to add Crosby, Malkin, and Lafleur as well as Stamkos, Hedman, and Vasilevsky, to name the key figures of their success.

I think there's little more we could want than to be the St. Louis Blues.

We already spent years being rock bottom.

We didn't get the Crosbys, Malkins, Stamkoses, and Hedmans to throw us into juggernaut mode.

Those were the years we could've seen this team be turned into what Pittsburgh became and Tampa still is.

That opportunity passed.

But the opportunity to be St. Louis... That's still very damn close.

Imagine if we got Kadri and he conviently ran into Igor?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Imagine if we got Kadri and he conviently ran into Igor?

That was basically my #1 reason for hoping he'd sign with us...

 

[Sheva7]

Yes and no.

Based on last season, with all its extraneous circumstances, we are indeed in no-man's land.

Based on the three seasons beforehand, we certainly aren't "firmly entrenched" in it. By no means.

I say that meaning that last season could prove to be little more than a blip on the map; a bump in the road.

Oh for sure, but to be clear my comment about being in no-man's land was based on the outlook of the team as of today. I purposely made sure specify that in the post because, like you correctly pointed out in the rest of your post, there's a few ways to come at it.

 

[MJF]

Wait a second.

The Blues won a Cup, going from worst to first from January to July. Then had to deal with the ensuing cap concerns (losing Pietrangelo), but remained a playoff team. Then they finished 4th overall in the west last season and had the Avs looking clueless until Binnington was conveniently injured in a collision with, who else, Kadri.

They head into this season looking as solid and well-built as any team outside of Colorado, doing so despite not once having a top 10 pick since grabbing Pietrangelo in the Bailey draft, showing the world that you can retool yourself to sound competitiveness with solid drafting (at later junctures) and strong lateral moves.

But WE should want more?

We should want more because they're not one of the very, very few teams who have maitained a steady form of the ultimate success (BTW, I get what you're getting at, but why mention a Pittsburgh team that has exited the playoffs in the first or qualifying round 4 straight seasons, and by the 2nd round the year before, despite a gawd awful amount of topflight talent?)?

It's naturally true that both Tampa and Pittsburgh were rock bottom for a little while. Rock. Bottom. This earned them the opportunity to add Crosby, Malkin, and Lafleur as well as Stamkos, Hedman, and Vasilevsky, to name the key figures of their success.

I think there's little more we could want than to be the St. Louis Blues.

We already spent years being rock bottom.

We didn't get the Crosbys, Malkins, Stamkoses, and Hedmans to throw us into juggernaut mode.

Those were the years we could've seen this team be turned into what Pittsburgh became and Tampa still is.

That opportunity passed.

But the opportunity to be St. Louis... That's still very damn close.

In a league with half the teams making the playoffs, just getting in is no big feat. WE SHOULD WANT MORE.

Sorry. Your bar is much lower than mine.

 

[doublechili]

Re: the rebuild vs. retool conversation, how about the do almost nothing option?

Lou traded our #13 overall pick in a good-not-great draft for a 22 year old top 4 defenseman, thus filling the biggest hole in the roster. We now have all of our picks moving forward (pending the conditional Ladd pick scenario). Guys like Wahlstrom, Bellows, Salo, Raty, Dufour, etc. appear to be getting legit shots and maybe things open up a little bit with the system. If some of them make the show, guys like Bailey, Martin, Clutter, etc. start getting phased out, and we keep picks and use them to restock the pipeline... it's not exciting, but it might be the best path forward.

 

[The Real JT]

Re: the rebuild vs. retool conversation, how about the do almost nothing option?

Lou traded our #13 overall pick in a good-not-great draft for a 22 year old top 4 defenseman, thus filling the biggest hole in the roster. We now have all of our picks moving forward (pending the conditional Ladd pick scenario). Guys like Wahlstrom, Bellows, Salo, Raty, Dufour, etc. appear to be getting legit shots and maybe things open up a little bit with the system. If some of them make the show, guys like Bailey, Martin, Clutter, etc. start getting phased out, and we keep picks and use them to restock the pipeline... it's not exciting, but it might be the best path forward.

I loved the Romanov trade and I’d rather have a quiet offseason than one involving signing a good aging player to a long term high AAV deal that handcuffs future franchise moves (I’m looking at you Kadri).

Despite the above, I’m still worried about Lou mortgaging the future for a non-game changer at the next TDL.

 

[MJF]

Re: the rebuild vs. retool conversation, how about the do almost nothing option?

Lou traded our #13 overall pick in a good-not-great draft for a 22 year old top 4 defenseman, thus filling the biggest hole in the roster. We now have all of our picks moving forward (pending the conditional Ladd pick scenario). Guys like Wahlstrom, Bellows, Salo, Raty, Dufour, etc. appear to be getting legit shots and maybe things open up a little bit with the system. If some of them make the show, guys like Bailey, Martin, Clutter, etc. start getting phased out, and we keep picks and use them to restock the pipeline... it's not exciting, but it might be the best path forward.

It’s the ONLY path forward.

But that is the path that will require patience from management and from the fans.

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Don't kid yourself. We're closer to a rebuild than a Stanley Cup.

To all the experts around here and media the Isles were always closer to a rebuild than a Stanley Cup since Lou took over and let’s face it everyone was wrong. Lou’s first 2 seasons they were not even picked to make the playoffs. There was a little more respect for season 3. Last season they were picked to win it all. So no one has a clue so let’s sit back and see what happens and enjoy a little.

 

[Mike C]

To all the experts around here and media the Isles were always closer to a rebuild than a Stanley Cup since Lou took over and let’s face it everyone was wrong. Lou’s first 2 seasons they were not even picked to make the playoffs. There was a little more respect for season 3. Last season they were picked to win it all. So no one has a clue so let’s sit back and see what happens and enjoy a little.

Where's the fun in that ?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

In a league with half the teams making the playoffs, just getting in is no big feat. WE SHOULD WANT MORE.

Sorry. Your bar is much lower than mine.

That's just the point... St. Louis is a pretty doggone high bar to set.

They've been setting a very solid standard - perhaps the highest among teams that didn't go full-out rock bottom in the past 15-20 years on their way to winning a Cup and then remaining competitive.

And not every team that goes the rebuild route ends up even getting to St. Louis' standard of success.

To get to the bar you claim is much higher than mine, we'd first have to see the bar lowered basically to rock bottom and then hope we get some superstars through the highest of draft picks in the process. A route our former management spent the better part of this century unsuccessfully going with.

Ipso facto, that route isn't nearly as much of a given as the one we've be on recently.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

It’s the ONLY path forward.

But that is the path that will require patience from management and from the fans.

PS) This I agree with fully.

And don't get me wrong in all of this talk - I'd naturally most like to see the Islanders be a team that contends year after year after year. I just don't see it as an exact science that any specific steps will automatically get us to.

And like everyone else here, I do have my doubts about the current management and it's ability/pathway of aspiring to such heights.

Thus, why we're all clear on this being a season of utmost importance with respect to this team's course and direction.

 

[gordie43]

PS) This I agree with fully.

And don't get me wrong in all of this talk - I'd naturally most like to see the Islanders be a team that contends year after year after year. I just don't see it as an exact science that any specific steps will automatically get us to.

And like everyone else here, I do have my doubts about the current management and it's ability/pathway of aspiring to such heights.

Thus, why we're all clear on this being a season of utmost importance with respect to this team's course and direction.

That is the great thing about sports, we cannot predict what is going to happen. Just one injury could wreck the whole thing, on the other hand, maybe that 5th round pick becomes a superstar? Who knows that’s the joy of sports.

While I enjoy all the debates, but there is too much doom and gloom. Lou has a solid roster for 2022/2023, and that’s a lot more than I can say for many of the isles teams I watched growing up.

Preseason is just a few weeks away can’t wait for the wild ride to start.

 

[MJF]

That's just the point... St. Louis is a pretty doggone high bar to set.

They've been setting a very solid standard - perhaps the highest among teams that didn't go full-out rock bottom in the past 15-20 years on their way to winning a Cup and then remaining competitive.

And not every team that goes the rebuild route ends up even getting to St. Louis' standard of success.

To get to the bar you claim is much higher than mine, we'd first have to see the bar lowered basically to rock bottom and then hope we get some superstars through the highest of draft picks in the process. A route our former management spent the better part of this century unsuccessfully going with.

Ipso facto, that route isn't nearly as much of given as the one we've be on recently.

The Blues is not a high bar at all. Over the last decade they've been a middle of the pack team that got hot in 2018, won a cup, and otherwise is never considered a real threat to win anything.

And yes, I think I do have a higher bar than you. As I've read from you in the past, you don't have the stomach for a rebuild. If you think that will send us down the same path that we traveled with the prior incompetent owners, well that's where I disagree with you. A rebuild with current ownership doesn't have to result in the same futility as the last one did. Ledecky and Malkin have proven that they 'get it' and I would trust that they wouldn't hire Semyon Varlamov or John Tortorella to be our next GM, but rather another NHL executive who knows how to run an organization.

So let's get away from trying to support a good combo of goaltending and defense with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd liners for forwards. We can't sign a star forward, we'd better draft one ASAP.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

So let's get away from trying to support a good combo of goaltending and defense with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd liners for forwards. We can't sign a star forward, we'd better draft one ASAP.

All for it!

Best if it's in the first round of the next draft. Doesn't even have to be a high first rounder in '23. From what I've witnessed (some personally), this draft is as chock full of future impact players as it's being hyped about.

But will we even have that first rounder?

Or even our 2nd either, now that I think about it?

 

[MJF]

All for it!

Best if it's in the first round of the next draft. Doesn't even have to be a high first rounder in '23. From what I've witnessed (some personally), this draft is as chock full of future impact players as it's being hyped about.

But will we even have that first rounder?

Or even our 2nd either, now that I think about it?

And to me that means if by the TDL we’re closer to a wild card spot than top 3 in the Metro, make a tough choice and sell assets for first and second round picks in the 2023 draft.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

And to me that means if by the TDL we’re closer to a wild card spot than top 3 in the Metro, make a tough choice and sell assets for first and second round picks in the 2023 draft.

No less than the draft junkie in me would want that too...

But it hasn't been Lou's modi operandi to date.

And I think we all worry about what's happening with those 2023 draft picks and maybe even the best prospects if we're somewhere between 7th-10th when the deadline rolls around.

Kind of makes me hope that we're either unexpectedly good or unexpectedly awful by the time the TD arrives.

Even if we're really good, what are the chances that Lou won't be an active "adder" for the stretch run???

 

[MJF]

No less than the draft junkie in me would want that too...

But it hasn't been Lou's modi operandi to date.

And I think we all worry about what's happening with those 2023 draft picks and maybe even the best prospects if we're somewhere between 7th-10th when the deadline rolls around.

Kind of makes me hope that we're either unexpectedly good or unexpectedly awful by the time the TD arrives.

Even if we're really good, what are the chances that Lou won't be an active "adder" for the stretch run???

If we’re scuffling to make the playoffs again this year, I don’t think Lou will be around to make the decision to sell or not.

And to those who know me, I’m not a draftnik or a YouTube scout. I don’t comment on players until I can see them play in person, and that means seeing them in the AHL. So for me to want to restock the cupboard rather than make a desperation play for a wild card spot should say a lot.

 

[Glory Days]

If we’re scuffling to make the playoffs again this year, I don’t think Lou will be around to make the decision to sell or not.

And to those who know me, I’m not a draftnik or a YouTube scout. I don’t comment on players until I can see them play in person, and that means seeing them in the AHL. So for me to want to restock the cupboard rather than make a desperation play for a wild card spot should say a lot.

I don’t see ownership replacing Lou during the season. I see that happening in the off-season.

 

[The Real JT]

No less than the draft junkie in me would want that too...

But it hasn't been Lou's modi operandi to date.

And I think we all worry about what's happening with those 2023 draft picks and maybe even the best prospects if we're somewhere between 7th-10th when the deadline rolls around.

Kind of makes me hope that we're either unexpectedly good or unexpectedly awful by the time the TD arrives.

Even if we're really good, what are the chances that Lou won't be an active "adder" for the stretch run???

I’ll add this.

Many of us have joked about Lou’s age but don’t discount that as a factor as we approach the next TDL. If we are no better than a borderline playoff team then why would an 80 year old GM with questionable job security be a seller?

Even Lou know that this is almost certainly his last GM job. Why take even a small step backwards when you have that perspective?

If we’re scuffling to make the playoffs again this year, I don’t think Lou will be around to make the decision to sell or not.

And to those who know me, I’m not a draftnik or a YouTube scout. I don’t comment on players until I can see them play in person, and that means seeing them in the AHL. So for me to want to restock the cupboard rather than make a desperation play for a wild card spot should say a lot.

Don’t sell yourself short. I like that game plan even if you didn’t go to the University of Maine.

 

[Glory Days]

I’ll add this.

Many of us have joked about Lou’s age but don’t discount that as a factor as we approach the next TDL. If we are no better than a borderline playoff team then why would an 80 year old GM with questionable job security be a seller?

Even Lou know that this is almost certainly his last GM job. Why take even a small step backwards when you have that perspective?


Don’t sell yourself short. I like that game plan even if you didn’t go to the University of Maine.

Lou will never rebuild. If ownership thinks a rebuild is needed they will need to fire Lou. But is ownership qualified to make that assessment or have they put blind faith in Lou?

 

[Uncle Lou]

Would love to see Lou add Rodrigues before camp starts I would think 1x2 would do the trick and he plays isles style with an underrated shot I can see a line of Rodrigues-pageau-Palmeri having some success but adding another forward to a crowded group might be tough. Can slot parise on 4LW and rotate Martin in.

 

[Glory Days]

The Blues is not a high bar at all. Over the last decade they've been a middle of the pack team that got hot in 2018, won a cup, and otherwise is never considered a real threat to win anything.

And yes, I think I do have a higher bar than you. As I've read from you in the past, you don't have the stomach for a rebuild. If you think that will send us down the same path that we traveled with the prior incompetent owners, well that's where I disagree with you. A rebuild with current ownership doesn't have to result in the same futility as the last one did. Ledecky and Malkin have proven that they 'get it' and I would trust that they wouldn't hire Semyon Varlamov or John Tortorella to be our next GM, but rather another NHL executive who knows how to run an organization.

So let's get away from trying to support a good combo of goaltending and defense with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd liners for forwards. We can't sign a star forward, we'd better draft one ASAP.

Assuming Isles go down the rebuild path and given the number of teams up against the cap who do you think Isles could realistically trade for a 1st round pick. I would say Barzal, Pelech, Sorokin, Dobson and maybe Nelson. I’m not against a rebuild but I don’t see it as being practical. I think the most likely path is to let the forward contracts expire in a few years and keep drafting forwards to replace them. The defense and goalie will still be young enough at that point. But for that to happen Lou needs to stop trading picks.

 

[MJF]

I don’t see ownership replacing Lou during the season. I see that happening in the off-season.

I do. Waiting until the off-season would hamstring a future GM with Lou’s actions or inactions coming into a deep draft. And with this being the final year of Lou’s contract I can’t see ownership allowing him to operate once they are sure they are not bringing him back.

Don’t sell yourself short. I like that game plan even if you didn’t go to the University of Maine.

Lol.

I dropped out of Baruch College after 2 years. I knew how to read the landscape in 1982 and I still think I can today.