Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California

[CupHolders]

Back when I was dating (thank god that's over) I had this kind of weird undefined thing with this woman who was... very frustrated with her boyfriend... most of my friends thought we were dating, but i certainly never announced we were dating, because we really weren't quite dating. we were just hanging out a lot in a way that wasn't not romantic. A very wise friend put it this way, she was keeping me around her bus stop just in case her other rider, which she didn't get what she wanetd from but was still commited to, got off.

i think the avs are still in kadri's bus, and kadri is keeping the isles at the bus stop. honestly, who can blame him?

i apologize for the tortured analogy.

Only reason the analogy doesn't quite work... Is because in the end, the Isles always get screwed anyway.

 

[danteipp]

With Toews struggling in the playoffs, Barry leaned on Leddy and Mayfield more for those tough minutes than Toews (behind Pelech and Pulock of course).

Lou and Barry probably talked and it wouldn't surprise me if Trotz had Pelech, Pulock, Leddy and Mayfield all ahead of Toews in terms of worth.

If that is the case, and you are going to move a defenseman, it only makes sense to trade the guy that the coach values least.

Covid cap crunch, upcoming expansion, team system, coaching preference, play up until that point, contract, needs for a physical presence on the ice, RHD over LHD, redundancy to Leddy, etc. Toews pretty much lost out by every measure.

 

[leeroggy]

This is partly why some associate Lou with a mafia figure...

Because everything must be so secretive the way you figure out who Lou has signed is by how quiet things are around them. Oh no one's reported on Parise for a month? He must be an Islander.

It almost feels like the players in question have been kidnapped by Lou and are in danger.

Wonderful. And I bet they are being held in Mar-a-Lago, so expect another raid.

 

[MJF]

With Toews struggling in the playoffs, Barry leaned on Leddy and Mayfield more for those tough minutes than Toews (behind Pelech and Pulock of course).

Lou and Barry probably talked and it wouldn't surprise me if Trotz had Pelech, Pulock, Leddy and Mayfield all ahead of Toews in terms of worth.

If that is the case, and you are going to move a defenseman, it only makes sense to trade the guy that the coach values least.

Covid cap crunch, upcoming expansion, team system, coaching preference, play up until that point, contract, needs for a physical presence on the ice, RHD over LHD, redundancy to Leddy, etc. Toews pretty much lost out by every measure.

And Dobson waiting in the wings.

 

[Tres Peleches]

Even the Isles twitter be trolling

 

[impaaaaaact]

Kadri got all those shots because he played over 19 minutes a game last season more than anything. He hadn't played over 18 but once prior in all of his other seasons.

Barzal does need to shoot more, but no; I am still not moving him off center. I'd put both Nelson and Palms on his wings to start the season and let Kadri anchor the second line with Lee and Wahlstrom. Those are the 6 you ideally want on your top two lines. ALL OF THEM are capable of 25-30 goals and I still advocate that if you put two good shooters with Barzal he will have a career year.

Kadri has never been as accurate as either of Brock or Kyle, even though the later has been snake bitten since becoming an Islander. Nelson isn't repeating his 22% mark or anything close to it this upcoming season but is still a 14% career shooter and Palms was close to that before arriving here. I am hoping his second half (14 goals, 12 assists, 26 points; 15% shooting in last 40 games) is an indicator that his bad luck is behind him.

I am fairly confident that Barzal can get both of them ample shots and it would be the best set of shooters he has ever had in the process, at least until Walhstrom proves himself worthy (I still think he is the best volume shooter we have and has the hardest shot). Defensively they should be adequate enough, but if they struggle that is when you can do you wing juggling.

I like Anders cleaning up on the second line from Ollie shots and I think Kadri could do wonders for the kid. That is my top 6, and I dont even care who is still here between Beau and Bailey.

Nelson- Barzal- Palmieri
Lee- Kadri- Wahlstrom

Pageau is still our best face off guy, so I am not moving him off the 3rd line either. Bellows gets a chance to make that line with whomever is left between AB and Josh on his wings.

Sure, Parise can be in the 3rd line mix, but for me I put him on the 4th to add some much needed punch there.

Bellows-Pageau-Beauvillier
Parise- Cizikas-Clutterbuck

If Beau is gone too then perhaps we have some change for a Rodrigues or another FA.

Will Lambert increase the minutes for the top end guys??

Regardless, this is where I am at lineup wise....

Kadri has shot at a pace that would have lead last year's team every year since 2014. Minutes or not, he's a guy that's going to get shots on net, which is one of the reasons why I agree with you that he should be playing with Lee and Wahlstrom - the other being that he found success playing with two larger forwards that like to get the puck on net themselves last season.

 

[NYI365]

Even the Isles twitter be trolling

They're referring to the Barzal OT goal from the bubble. They forgot to include the link on Twitter lol

 

[Glory Days]

But really...Toews was a cap dump more than an expansion draft trade, and here's why...

Because of the cap situation in the summer of 2020 the Isles couldn't afford Toews for 20-21, so he had to be dealt then and thus it was really more of a cap dump.

Think about it another way...Who in their right mind would protect Mayfield over Toews in any expansion draft? No rational/sane/qualified GM would do that simply based on talent. However because Lou backed us up against the cap prior Toews had to be dealt simply because of the cap.

I mean if going into the Seattle expansion draft the Isles had Mayfield signed at 1.45/year and Toews at 4.1/year, you're keeping Toews. The fact that Lou didn't manage the cap well enough to even get to that point is the issue.

Had Lou managed the cap better than we could've kept Toews and traded Mayfield simply due to the expansion draft...And we'd have a more talented defense today.

Toews was more about the expansion draft than the cap. He had an underwhelming playoff and wasn’t thought of as a good fit in Trotz system. Mayfield was highly regarded by Trotz. We can agree to disagree on this point but Lou had other options to clear salary and chose to move Toews.

 

[periferal]

Lou wasn't perfect with the CAP. No GM (Sakic included) has been perfect when it comes to managing their cap. But remarking that Lou did not do "well enough" at the same time as ignoring unprecedented and historic events like COVID and the flat cap just makes your argument seem unreasonable.

Again, the NHL backtracked from their OWN announcement around the trade deadline that the CAP was going to be ~3M to ~8M higher for the following year. At no time has the NHL ever backtracked from those trade deadline (after 80% of the season is already in the books) estimates.

Counting on that (trade deadline guidance) CAP bump, is not to be confused with one blindly STARTING the season and expecting the CAP to just go up for the following year. Although, that has historically been a very safe bet too.

But again, these arguments mostly seem to be confusing perfection with proficient.

Can you post link(s) that show that before Covid the cap was "supposed" to go up nearly 8 million?

And that being said, the Komarov deal was very bad and if you just remove that we can keep Toews in 2020...And then trade Mayfield for the expansion draft.

And no one is saying that any GM is perfect, but there's a faction of the Isles fanbase where you cannot even critique any of Lou's moves without giving a general thumbs up. Again I think he's a quality GM, but not the god-like figure some make him out to be.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

but there's a faction of the Isles fanbase where you cannot even critique any of Lou's moves without giving a general thumbs up.

Not really. This seems like a flimsy excuse to be a critic and a victim at the same time.

 

[SI]

Agreed. Romanov has him in physicality, skating is probably close between the two.
However the rest goes to Toews hands down.

Not sure I would say hands down because Romanov is f***ing fast!

 

[4Cups Want More]

Can you post link(s) that show that before Covid the cap was "supposed" to go up nearly 8 million?

And that being said, the Komarov deal was very bad and if you just remove that we can keep Toews in 2020...And then trade Mayfield for the expansion draft.

And no one is saying that any GM is perfect, but there's a faction of the Isles fanbase where you cannot even critique any of Lou's moves without giving a general thumbs up. Again I think he's a quality GM, but not the god-like figure some make him out to be.

The Komarov deal was not very bad. One can argue that it was a very good deal in that the worst part of the deal was term and he ended up retiring a year early.

The Hickey and Komarov signings were necessary at the time. At the time of these two signings we had two experienced defenders and just lost Tavares. Hickey was a necessary signing for the defense. Komarov was a stabilizing player who had his limitations but was the type of player with experience and leadership that could help with Barzal and Beauvillier. He also was an excellent defensive player and a relentless forechecker. Beau actually was one of the better players on the ice most games when Leo was around. Leo was what he was. A bottom 6 forward that left everything on the ice every game. His leadership was something that I believe we missed last year.

Lou had 3 UFAs to sign when we traded Toews and Toews has applied for arbitration.

Lou was not about to pay Toews 4 million dollars a year for an inexperienced 30 point defender who was sketchy in his own end whether the cap was supposed to go up or not.

Toews is a very good offensive weapon but, he has flaws in his defensive game and he is a softer player.

 

[4Cups Want More]

I just can't believe that it has ben two years and we are crying over Toews. He is gone. Accept it and move on. We have Salo who can become the left handed PMD that we need and can quarterback PP2. He just needs to get the opportunity to grow without being benched for making a mistake.

Defensively, I do not believe that you are losing much between Salo ane Toews.

 

[SI]

Can you post link(s) that show that before Covid the cap was "supposed" to go up nearly 8 million?

And that being said, the Komarov deal was very bad and if you just remove that we can keep Toews in 2020...And then trade Mayfield for the expansion draft.

And no one is saying that any GM is perfect, but there's a faction of the Isles fanbase where you cannot even critique any of Lou's moves without giving a general thumbs up. Again I think he's a quality GM, but not the god-like figure some make him out to be.

NHL cap raise - March 4th.

NHL salary cap to be between $84-$88.2 million next season – Sportsnet.ca

Pageau signs extension - Feb. 24th

Islanders Sign Pageau to Contract Extension - The Hockey Writers New York Islanders Latest News, Analysis & More

The New York Islanders have signed J-G. Pageau to a long-term contract extension.

thehockeywriters.com

Rudy Gobert touches mic’s March 10th
NBA shutdowns March 11th
NHL shutdowns March 12th

 

[SI]

Not sure I agree with Toews seeing less time during the playoffs - Trotz still used him heavily in that rotation and may have been bumped down and off the PP.

Toews trade had everything to do with Cap- listen to Lou after the deal. Arbitration also made the staff rattle because of his potential reward and what that would mean for resigning Pulock and Barzal.

Leddy was being shopped for sure and with his cap hit and actual $ no one wanted that $. There was a rumour that mentioned Leddy thought he was getting traded and his wife mentioned they were packing- cannot remember where I read this.

 

[CupHolders]

Can you post link(s) that show that before Covid the cap was "supposed" to go up nearly 8 million?

And that being said, the Komarov deal was very bad and if you just remove that we can keep Toews in 2020...And then trade Mayfield for the expansion draft.

And no one is saying that any GM is perfect, but there's a faction of the Isles fanbase where you cannot even critique any of Lou's moves without giving a general thumbs up. Again I think he's a quality GM, but not the god-like figure some make him out to be.

Here is a post I made that had such a link. I have routinely brought up this point about the impact of the COVID flat cap, while providing sources. Yet here we are having the same conversation again focusing on Leo Komarov.

The fact that posters here keep returning to the Komarov contract while ignoring the impact of COVID... is essentially expecting perfection over reasonability. The Komarov deal was not great or good, but this notion that it was a singular or major cause for losing Toews... sorry but it was not.

Just a reminder the cap did not JUST freeze. Every year at the trade deadline the NHL provides guidance on what to expect the cap will be for the following year. Then they make the official public announcement shortly after. The guidance is based on current and expected revenues for that season. It provides organization to plan current and future cap allocations

After the Pageau trade deadline the NHL had already announced one of the highest cap increases for the following season. Approximately two weeks later they retracted that due to COVID shutdown.

It’s understandable that the NHL retracted. As it’s understandable that teams like the Isles expected an additional 3m team and a total 90m+ of cap space throughout the NHL for the following year.

NHL salary cap projected to rise next season | NHL.com

Range likely to be between $84 million and $88.2 million; CBA talks continue

www.nhl.com

Ah, March 4th, 2020… how little we knew the world was about to implode! Short sided stupid Lou!

 

[danteipp]

And Dobson waiting in the wings.

I was going to mention that as well, since Dobson played his offhand (LH) with Boychuk in some games, and played well, albeit in sheltered minutes.

This was Lou's quote at the time of the Toews trade on 10/10/2020 -

"We would not have made this move certainly if the ice time that Devon received, we didn't have the ability to put a player into that, and Noah Dobson will certainly, we feel is ready to take the next step. We'll have to just wait and see."

Boychuk didn't officially retire until 11/25/2020. Now maybe Lou had an idea that JB planned to retire but, if he didn't and the plan was that Boychuk would be able to continue for another couple seasons, then a bottom pairing of Dobson-Boychuk is reasonable.

I can't recall if there was definitive word that JB was headed towards forced retirement or not. I don't think it was set yet.

In the end, there was a myriad of reasons why Toews was traded, not the least of which was him opting for arbitration (hearing set for 10/12/2020) and forcing the Isles hand.

I get the feeling that if he didn't opt for arbitration, the Isles would have had more time to work out the cap issues and maybe a contract for Toews.

 

[WangMustGo]

They're referring to the Barzal OT goal from the bubble. They forgot to include the link on Twitter lol

Dont you know you posting anything positive about Barzal is banned around here.

 

[Mike C]

Dont you know you posting anything positive about Barzal is banned around here.

As I said, earlier this week, I for one, am turning the page on the past and rooting with a clean slate for 2022-23

We're tied for 1st going in. Let's Go Isles! and Let's Go Matt!

 

[danteipp]

Here is a post I made that had such a link. I have routinely brought up this point about the impact of the COVID flat cap, while providing sources. Yet here we are having the same conversation again focusing on Leo Komarov.

The fact that posters here keep returning to the Komarov contract while ignoring the impact of COVID... is essentially expecting perfection over reasonability. The Komarov deal was not great or good, but this notion that it was a singular or major cause for losing Toews... sorry but it was not.

Agreed, Komarov was signed for a very clear reason, to help change the culture and act as a mentor to the younger players.

The guy has a ton of International hockey experience and speaks what, five different languages?

He was brought in to help the younger players mature and I am sure he also helped bridge some language barriers between players and in the locker room.

It wasn't Leo's fault that two unexpected occurrences happened. The first was Covid, resulting in a flat cap, and the second was Trotz inexplicably playing him on the first line. Still a WTF moment, lol.

Uncle Leo did his job AND was even considerate enough to retire a year early and let the Isles get back that cap space in his final season.

I understand why Leo was brought in and what he contributed.

Maybe if the Rags had an Uncle Leo, Lias Andersson wouldn't have washed out, Kraptsov wouldn't whine as much and flee back to the KHL whenever challenged, and Krappo wouldn't have had so many early struggles.

 

[NC 1972]

I’d rather him be deliberate than go all mike milbury, running into the stands, hitting people with shoes.

He was a player in Boston then.

 

[eoin92]

He was a player in Boston then.

I was being facetious, to illustrate what dickhead milbury was.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

Not sure I would say hands down because Romanov is f***ing fast!

Yep agreed, their skating is probably close which is good news for us.

 

[12Dog]

Milano is a stereotypical LI punk. I remember when he got drafted, he pulled away from someone who almost touched his hair or something. He was like, "don't mess with the f***ing fro". I immediately didn't like him.

Completely different experience I had with him
My son took skating lessons from the same instructor Milano did
His lesson was usually before Milano’s
He couldn’t have been nicer, never seemed like what you described
Always took time to make small talk while waiting, would fist bump my son coming off the ice
Seemed like a pretty decent young guy

 

[periferal]

The Komarov deal was not very bad. One can argue that it was a very good deal in that the worst part of the deal was term and he ended up retiring a year early.

The Hickey and Komarov signings were necessary at the time. At the time of these two signings we had two experienced defenders and just lost Tavares. Hickey was a necessary signing for the defense. Komarov was a stabilizing player who had his limitations but was the type of player with experience and leadership that could help with Barzal and Beauvillier. He also was an excellent defensive player and a relentless forechecker. Beau actually was one of the better players on the ice most games when Leo was around. Leo was what he was. A bottom 6 forward that left everything on the ice every game. His leadership was something that I believe we missed last year.

Lou had 3 UFAs to sign when we traded Toews and Toews has applied for arbitration.

Lou was not about to pay Toews 4 million dollars a year for an inexperienced 30 point defender who was sketchy in his own end whether the cap was supposed to go up or not.

Toews is a very good offensive weapon but, he has flaws in his defensive game and he is a softer player.

Literal WTF?

Food is necessary. Water intake is necessary. Signing any NHL player, much less Thomas Hickey (or Leo Komarov) at that point in his career, to a contract is the opposite of "necessary."

Lou gave Hickey a 4 year deal at 2.5M/year. At that very point when he did Hickey was a fringe NHL/AHL defenseman, and throughout the lifetime of the deal Hickey played in a total of 47 NHL games the rest of his career.

It was a horrible deal then, only confirmed by the passage of time.

NHL cap raise - March 4th.

NHL salary cap to be between $84-$88.2 million next season – Sportsnet.ca

Pageau signs extension - Feb. 24th

Islanders Sign Pageau to Contract Extension - The Hockey Writers New York Islanders Latest News, Analysis & More

The New York Islanders have signed J-G. Pageau to a long-term contract extension.

thehockeywriters.com

Rudy Gobert touches mic’s March 10th
NBA shutdowns March 11th
NHL shutdowns March 12th

Perfect. Well done.